Commando Archive
Thread: Anyone else starting to get that sinking feeling about the CU?
Jaeryk
Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:53 am
#14
Ahaf wrote:
I agree with wolfgang.
Oh and how many times to people have to be told before it sinks in? The level system has always been there, they just made it more visible.
I agree too. I think the uproar on the boards plays a large role in creating doubts, dont let the negativity on the boards get to you...especially if it's people whining about the level system that's been there since day 1!
JoKen_Jash
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:10 am
#15
"Think" we're sinking? We're already up to our noses in the quicksand, man! It's evident in the AS forums, it was evident here two days ago. The community is SNAPPING. They're completely dumping their accounts for the sheer reason of protesting the devs. There's practically war on the forums now!
Shifty123
Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:00 am
#16
Jaeryk -
I was one of those that only stuck around in hope that the CU would fix things.
Having seen the CU - the only way I'm staying now is if they DON'T implement it.
I have tested it for at least 4 hours a day since it came to TC, so don't tell me "You haven't even tested it, you don't know what you are talking about!"
Wolfmann -
I love Star Wars, and have been playing Star Wars games since the first "Dark Forces." I will not however play a BAD game with a BAD system and an autocratic management philosophy that utterly disregards the will of the majority of it's customers just because it is a Star Wars game. I think that in the end, niether will most other people.
It comes down to this -
The old system had some fundamental flaws that had a significant impact on combat. A change was needed to correct the issues present in the old combat system. I saw changes proposed that would have effectively corrected the current/old/live system.
Then I saw the CU - a total departure from these earlier proposed changes. Instead of an improved version of the old system, we got a completely "new" system designed to arbitrarily incorporate incompatible game mechanics from other games. They brought the formerly insignificant level system, originally designed ONLY to tell you how difficult an encounter MIGHT be, to the forefront of nearly every aspect of combat.
Now your every combat encounter is actively predicted by two little numbers - no need to try something new, you look at the color and you know if you are going to win or lose so why bother?
Oops! What's that, the new level system doesn't account for what weapon you have equipped and actively scales XP according to your level? So now players can't level skills below their level because they get no XP? I know, lets make certs level based and only associate certain ones with skill boxes! So now, I can use a VK as a master riflemen? Why can I use my VK just as effectively as a TK at my level? Could it be because all the modifiers are there just for show and you are now nothing more than a level applied to your weapon stats? Yeah, I'm sure we are all supid enough not realize
.
Well, at least we fixed doctor, now they are a combat profession as they rightfully should be! Makes sense to me. No offensive abilities, no defensive abilities, what could be more combat worthy than that? Oh yeah, damage taken and health pool are a function of your level, so doctors have to be considered a combat profession if they are to be of any use in the field now. A perfect and logical assumption... oh wait, just another unjustifiable change to half-heartedly correct a new problem introduced by the level system. While we are at it lets take the crafting component out of the profession as well, nobody likes teh crafting system in SWG, it's far to involved and interesting.
What's next? OOO! I know, wile we're on the subject of crafting, lets screw up armor crafting and kick the armorsmith coresspondant for voicing the concerns of his community (a.k.a. - doing his job)!
I don't care if it's SOE or LA making these decisions. Wherever the blame falls, the decision making associated with this CU/RB may be the worst I have ever seen. I am honestly amazed that whoever is pulling these strings hasn't decided to take a slow stroll across a busy highway yet with his/her/its tremendous decision making ability.
The combat system introduced with the CU is equally if not MORE broken than the old one. In time even the current supporters will realize this and, if the game survives, will be the first to raise their hands in revolution when they do. And if that does happen, I'll be willing to bet that these same people will once again simply accept any change as an improvement and repeat the cycle till the game does die.
I was one of those that only stuck around in hope that the CU would fix things.
Having seen the CU - the only way I'm staying now is if they DON'T implement it.
I have tested it for at least 4 hours a day since it came to TC, so don't tell me "You haven't even tested it, you don't know what you are talking about!"
Wolfmann -
I love Star Wars, and have been playing Star Wars games since the first "Dark Forces." I will not however play a BAD game with a BAD system and an autocratic management philosophy that utterly disregards the will of the majority of it's customers just because it is a Star Wars game. I think that in the end, niether will most other people.
It comes down to this -
The old system had some fundamental flaws that had a significant impact on combat. A change was needed to correct the issues present in the old combat system. I saw changes proposed that would have effectively corrected the current/old/live system.
Then I saw the CU - a total departure from these earlier proposed changes. Instead of an improved version of the old system, we got a completely "new" system designed to arbitrarily incorporate incompatible game mechanics from other games. They brought the formerly insignificant level system, originally designed ONLY to tell you how difficult an encounter MIGHT be, to the forefront of nearly every aspect of combat.
Now your every combat encounter is actively predicted by two little numbers - no need to try something new, you look at the color and you know if you are going to win or lose so why bother?
Oops! What's that, the new level system doesn't account for what weapon you have equipped and actively scales XP according to your level? So now players can't level skills below their level because they get no XP? I know, lets make certs level based and only associate certain ones with skill boxes! So now, I can use a VK as a master riflemen? Why can I use my VK just as effectively as a TK at my level? Could it be because all the modifiers are there just for show and you are now nothing more than a level applied to your weapon stats? Yeah, I'm sure we are all supid enough not realize
.Well, at least we fixed doctor, now they are a combat profession as they rightfully should be! Makes sense to me. No offensive abilities, no defensive abilities, what could be more combat worthy than that? Oh yeah, damage taken and health pool are a function of your level, so doctors have to be considered a combat profession if they are to be of any use in the field now. A perfect and logical assumption... oh wait, just another unjustifiable change to half-heartedly correct a new problem introduced by the level system. While we are at it lets take the crafting component out of the profession as well, nobody likes teh crafting system in SWG, it's far to involved and interesting.
What's next? OOO! I know, wile we're on the subject of crafting, lets screw up armor crafting and kick the armorsmith coresspondant for voicing the concerns of his community (a.k.a. - doing his job)!
I don't care if it's SOE or LA making these decisions. Wherever the blame falls, the decision making associated with this CU/RB may be the worst I have ever seen. I am honestly amazed that whoever is pulling these strings hasn't decided to take a slow stroll across a busy highway yet with his/her/its tremendous decision making ability.
The combat system introduced with the CU is equally if not MORE broken than the old one. In time even the current supporters will realize this and, if the game survives, will be the first to raise their hands in revolution when they do. And if that does happen, I'll be willing to bet that these same people will once again simply accept any change as an improvement and repeat the cycle till the game does die.
Message Edited by Shifty123 on 04-15-2005 10:00 AM
Shefty Fault 
Imperial Stormtrooper
AlmightyBob
Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:00 am
#17
blacke wrote:
Yes the level system was always there in the background, but it never scaled the damage done/recieved. Second, it was based on the weapon you currently had equipted.
What is on live is much more a Combat Level then what is on TC. It is ones CL with the currently equipted weapon.
As it is now on TC, ones CL is only based on the skillboxes you take, therefor a person who has only trained in melee (not even taken novice marksman) is considerd to be equally good in combat with a ranged weapon as he is with a melee weapon. To me, that is plain wrong.
For what it's worth, I couldn't agree more. As it is now, I would feel really good about the CU but for this moronic level system and profession de-certification. Let me add, I'd be cool with the latter feature if brawler and ranged skills were made completely separate. Put it in real life terms: anexpert in the use of a shotgun likely knowsabout the operation of most other firearmssimply because a shotgun is a firearm, just as a swordsman can use melee skills and experience to wield most other blades. For obvious reasons, though,it doesn't work between the groups. 
What are they thinking?
What are they thinking? As for the levels... well hell it's just so completely artificial, and it will sap the fun and sense of adventure from combat. Sinking? More likely sunk
Slipkid42
Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:08 am
#18
I too do not like the new "your higher level than me so you hurt me more" I mean
Jabbas thug should hurt me just as much when I am lvl 1 as when I am lvl 51.
Now I may be able to avoid him better at lvl 51, but if he hits me it should be the same.
Shifty123
Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:16 pm
#20
Creative? How is haphazardly mimicing random elements from other games in any way, shape, or form creative?
Anywho...
Among my circle of friends, I was the most ardent supported of the CU - that is, until I played the CU. All I have seen is uneccessary change after uneccessary change. As far as I am concerned, I think this may just go down as the biggest MMO game disaster in history - and yes, I do truely think that it may be that big of a flop.
About a month before CU, I had gotten a hold of some leaked CU doccuments, and was absolutely amazed at how good it looked. When I finally got to see the CU, it was as if nothing i had seen in those documents had been implemented. The combat system has been dumbed down, and the once hidden and passive level system has become the main focus of the new combat system.
The upgrade seems like more of a downgrade, and the rebalance hasn't even been tested yet!
The "Combat Upgrade/Re-Balance" somehow turned into the "MMO Copy and Paste Festival."
I am severerely disapointed in the Combat Upgrade, and so is everyone I know except for one person who hasn't tested it, but for some reason maintains that it is still all it is vaunted to be. I have set my account to expire at the end of its next cycle, and so have all my friends (short that one fellow who maintains hope). Heck, my whole guild - 30+ people with some 70 total characters has or will quit - same goes for guilds allied with us.
Throughout my 2 year history with this game (check my currently banned account - Fondler), I have ALWAYS done the best that I could to see things from the developers' point of view, I have ALWAYS done what I could to support them. Hell, I even turned a number of my fellow Commandos against me a month or so ago by suggesting that the delays in the CU are well worth it. I am very deeply saddened now that I know those that turned against my were in deed more right than even they knew.
I am now left to deal with the fact that the game that I have spent countless hours (and LOTS of money) on over the last couple of years is no longer going to be something I want to be a part of. It makes me sad to think that my time with SWG may end now, not with closure, but utter disapointment in the way that the game that I once loved came to its end.
Many may flame (we are Commandos after all
), but that is how I feel, and that is what I think.
-Fondler
Anywho...
Among my circle of friends, I was the most ardent supported of the CU - that is, until I played the CU. All I have seen is uneccessary change after uneccessary change. As far as I am concerned, I think this may just go down as the biggest MMO game disaster in history - and yes, I do truely think that it may be that big of a flop.
About a month before CU, I had gotten a hold of some leaked CU doccuments, and was absolutely amazed at how good it looked. When I finally got to see the CU, it was as if nothing i had seen in those documents had been implemented. The combat system has been dumbed down, and the once hidden and passive level system has become the main focus of the new combat system.
The upgrade seems like more of a downgrade, and the rebalance hasn't even been tested yet!
The "Combat Upgrade/Re-Balance" somehow turned into the "MMO Copy and Paste Festival."
I am severerely disapointed in the Combat Upgrade, and so is everyone I know except for one person who hasn't tested it, but for some reason maintains that it is still all it is vaunted to be. I have set my account to expire at the end of its next cycle, and so have all my friends (short that one fellow who maintains hope). Heck, my whole guild - 30+ people with some 70 total characters has or will quit - same goes for guilds allied with us.
Throughout my 2 year history with this game (check my currently banned account - Fondler), I have ALWAYS done the best that I could to see things from the developers' point of view, I have ALWAYS done what I could to support them. Hell, I even turned a number of my fellow Commandos against me a month or so ago by suggesting that the delays in the CU are well worth it. I am very deeply saddened now that I know those that turned against my were in deed more right than even they knew.
I am now left to deal with the fact that the game that I have spent countless hours (and LOTS of money) on over the last couple of years is no longer going to be something I want to be a part of. It makes me sad to think that my time with SWG may end now, not with closure, but utter disapointment in the way that the game that I once loved came to its end.
Many may flame (we are Commandos after all
), but that is how I feel, and that is what I think.-Fondler
Rathask
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:27 pm
#21
If they remove the level system, reintroduce the combat queue, and fix all the stuff the crafters have been up in arms about, the CU has potential. Dunno about the UI, though...
StarNick
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:35 pm
#22
For whats it worth, very few folks (including correspondents) like the damage modifiers for a higher level mob verses a lower level player. I hope this can be totally taken out, as not only does it hurt non-combatants (especially crafters), but also creates (in my opinion) a more restrictive and really a WoW/EQ type level game, where level is all that matters and nothing else. If we saw damage modifiers taken out, combat itself would loosen a bit...and we could see some more ease with soloing same/higher level (or multiple mobs of near level), as well as some combat similar to the current system where not EVERYTHING is black and white.
CU is about flexibility and balance...damage modifiers detract from this. Its something quite a few of the correspondents are really pushing for the removal of...
CU is about flexibility and balance...damage modifiers detract from this. Its something quite a few of the correspondents are really pushing for the removal of...
Dutaan
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:38 pm
#23
>
Among my circle of friends, I was the most ardent supported of the CU - that is, until I played the CU. All I have seen is uneccessary change after uneccessary change.
Same thing here. I supported it until we started seeing the changes they are actually making. So, we needed a few things tweaked, and well, they changed everything we didn't want changed, like taking a bulldozer to a garden to pull a few weeds.
Rathask
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:38 pm
#24
StarNick wrote:
For whats it worth, very few folks (including correspondents) like the damage modifiers for a higher level mob verses a lower level player. I hope this can be totally taken out, as not only does it hurt non-combatants (especially crafters), but also creates (in my opinion) a more restrictive and really a WoW/EQ type level game, where level is all that matters and nothing else. If we saw damage modifiers taken out, combat itself would loosen a bit...and we could see some more ease with soloing same/higher level (or multiple mobs of near level), as well as some combat similar to the current system where not EVERYTHING is black and white.
CU is about flexibility and balance...damage modifiers detract from this. Its something quite a few of the correspondents are really pushing for the removal of...
Exactly. It should be the mods from SKILLS that count, not level.
Also, removing the level system will save the crafters from having to increase their overhead, which they would have to do as combat level 1 characters by hiring a doc/tka to protect/rez them while checking harvesters.
Dutaan
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:39 pm
#25
StarNick wrote:
For whats it worth, very few folks (including correspondents) like the damage modifiers for a higher level mob verses a lower level player. I hope this can be totally taken out, as not only does it hurt non-combatants (especially crafters), but also creates (in my opinion) a more restrictive and really a WoW/EQ type level game, where level is all that matters and nothing else. If we saw damage modifiers taken out, combat itself would loosen a bit...and we could see some more ease with soloing same/higher level (or multiple mobs of near level), as well as some combat similar to the current system where not EVERYTHING is black and white.
CU is about flexibility and balance...damage modifiers detract from this. Its something quite a few of the correspondents are really pushing for the removal of...
Oh my. Yes! If they would just take out those stupid damage modifiers, I'd be so much happier.
Edited to lower the element of my ranting.
Message Edited by Dutaan on 04-15-2005 05:45 PM
Novock
Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:45 pm
#26
StarNick wrote:
For whats it worth, very few folks (including correspondents) like the damage modifiers for a higher level mob verses a lower level player. I hope this can be totally taken out, as not only does it hurt non-combatants (especially crafters), but also creates (in my opinion) a more restrictive and really a WoW/EQ type level game, where level is all that matters and nothing else. If we saw damage modifiers taken out, combat itself would loosen a bit...and we could see some more ease with soloing same/higher level (or multiple mobs of near level), as well as some combat similar to the current system where not EVERYTHING is black and white.
CU is about flexibility and balance...damage modifiers detract from this. Its something quite a few of the correspondents are really pushing for the removal of...
yeah my three gripes are
1. the dmg multipliers. I don't mind the levels being there and determing xp. They would be a good good but the dmg multipliers stink and it will not only make PvE restrictive but you will have to be a completed full combat player to compete in PvP as the dmg multipliers seems to be active there as well. Remove the dmg multipliers please. 2. The particle effects. I get the gist of it. The particle ffects are there to let you know what a person is being effected by but they are a bit much. There are particle fefcts that absolutlely serve no purpose like the ones when you geton and off your bike. They need toned down severla notches. 3. My other porffession SL still bites. They have done basically nothing with the proffession beside throwing a cpl mods at it. Our skills seem to have been lessen by the change and they need to work on it but it looks like we'll be hitting live in worse shape (SL that is) that we are now. So I get one proffession fixed and my other still borked SL.