Commando Archive
Thread: My Fellow Commandos Let us boycot the Flame Tree!
navaTalyus wrote:
Since there is really no way to stop the amount of dabblers to our profession I suggest we do this the old fasioned way.
Hold a multi-server boycot of training the Flame Tree.
navaTalyus
Master Commando - Chillastra
lol ok that is funny. Why, you ask. Because of one simple fact. NPC trainers. So now instead of getting my training form a Player who will get APXP so they can get master I go and fork over some money and get it tained. But the trainers are so far from cizilization you say. Well as my commando is an Imp I hunt from that Oasis on Tat. Therefore it is probbaly easier for me to go get NPC training then player training. And if you have the money to train it isn't to hard to travel to a trainer. With the NPC trainers listed on so many websites you won't be able to keep it quit where to become a commando. Especialy since the person had to find a trainer to become a commando.
Think up some thing that will work and will not distract the Devs from the Bugs that are here.
/rant off
garvin wrote:
Well...since those that know me know I live to play Devil's Adcovate...let me ask you this:
1) What's wrong with Flame Tree Dabblers?
2) How can we condone putting down Flame Tree Dabblers when many of us turn around and dabble in 1 or 2 trees of Pistoleer...or Smuggler...or Rifleman...or TKA...or Medic...etc?
A raging debate keeps popping up where 50% of our board hates dabblers, and the other 50% doesn't mind them...Our problem is that we only have 1 good tree...and because of that, commando's tend to get upset when others dabble in that tree...if we had other tree's just as good or close to as good, I doubt we'd care much about flame tree dabblers...seems to me that frustration over our broken profession keeps being taken out on dabblers.
Already the Dev's have added Flame enhancements to the Master Level (via the past patch). So a Master Commando is better with the FT then a Flame 4 Commando Dabbler...we could push for more at the Master Level rather then take out our anger on those who come into our profession because we do indeed have a very useful weapon. But also remember, that those who dabble in our profession to get our FT's also suffer along with us the weapon's weaknesses (range, cooldown, etc).
The key to the arguement is that if we penalize FT dabblers, then we need to cease our dabbling in other professions...otherwise we just become Hypocrits....
Totally agree with you all the way up to here.
Am I wrong in this analyzation...if so, tell me why....
The word is "analysis"... there is no such word as "analyzation".
Since there is really no way to stop the amount of dabblers to our profession I suggest we do this the old fasioned way.
Hold a multi-server boycot of training the Flame Tree.
There is no way this idea is going to stay here without getting flamed. Bring it on.
First however, let me lay out my logic: (though I'd wager 50% of the flamers wont read below this line)
Refusing to train others in the flame tree will make it that little bit more difficult to learn. Many of the older Commandos still remember the days when *paying* for training from an NPC was the only way to be taught because there were no masters. Many of us were among the first to master on our respective servers.
Reletive to the rest of the profession, the Flame Thrower is grossly over powered. As such i would be hard pressed to believe that there are very many HAR dabblers in the galaxy. As such, anyone who is actually going to master the profession will do so reguardless of weather or not they have had to pay for four boxes, or an entire profession.
Obviously this action wont stop dabblers, but it will send the message that Commandos with the frame of mind to go master do not agree with dabblers who simply want what is top self in the PVP/PVE world reguardlessthe effects of their actions and miss-use haveon the rest of us.
navaTalyus
Master Commando - Chillastra
Flame is not over powered. People dabbling in it shouldn mean we narf the power of the tree, at most it might be in need of a restructure of some things to master.
I personally am going to quit this game if they lower the damage of a commando. Not a threat, just a fact 
. I have tried Rifleman, Bounty Hunter, and Ranger. Out of everything, i find Commando the least broken of them all.
I still dont think commando is as powerfull as we should be vs things like turrets or large groups of NPC's.
PVP
Flame tree is not overpowered. Flame is the only weapon we commandos have, fix all the classes including ours before takling about boycots and dabblers.
Your send the totally wrong message.
If i lost my flame thrower id just quit the game i tell you. I enjoy PVE im not a big PVP freak and its really the only weapon that can do any sort of damage.
<sigh> i thought my first message was lost and then its here arg stupid forum.
Oh well you get my points.
Well...since those that know me know I live to play Devil's Adcovate...let me ask you this:
1) What's wrong with Flame Tree Dabblers?
2) How can we condone putting down Flame Tree Dabblers when many of us turn around and dabble in 1 or 2 trees of Pistoleer...or Smuggler...or Rifleman...or TKA...or Medic...etc?
A raging debate keeps popping up where 50% of our board hates dabblers, and the other 50% doesn't mind them...Our problem is that we only have 1 good tree...and because of that, commando's tend to get upset when others dabble in that tree...if we had other tree's just as good or close to as good, I doubt we'd care much about flame tree dabblers...seems to me that frustration over our broken profession keeps being taken out on dabblers.
Already the Dev's have added Flame enhancements to the Master Level (via the past patch). So a Master Commando is better with the FT then a Flame 4 Commando Dabbler...we could push for more at the Master Level rather then take out our anger on those who come into our profession because we do indeed have a very useful weapon. But also remember, that those who dabble in our profession to get our FT's also suffer along with us the weapon's weaknesses (range, cooldown, etc).
The key to the arguement is that if we penalize FT dabblers, then we need to cease our dabbling in other professions...otherwise we just become Hypocrits....
Am I wrong in this analyzation...if so, tell me why....
I love the idea. From now on I ask if people are going for master commando, if they say no, then I only teach non-flamethrower skills. Great idea.
Yachew- GuNiT GeNeRaL-Master Commando-Corbantis
garvin wrote:
1) What's wrong with Flame Tree Dabblers?
where do you suppose justification for the melee modifer came from?
Perhaps Im being misunderstood. Im suggesting that my fellow commandos turn down any offers to trian the flame tree because it is over powered when compaired to the other trees in Commando. In no way am I saying its TOO powerfull. On the contrary. Anyone who was a Commando pre-weapons fix knows that right after the fix the flame thrower did alot more damage. But then I've been a Commando since September and a Master since October. I speak to you of commparissions that emcompass many many instances:
i.e. Flamesingle1 used to be capable of 4-5000 damage. Flamesingle2 6-7000 damage. That number is now down to 3-4000 maybe 5000 for flamesingle2. If anything the strongest weapon in the arsenal has come down drastically in power since weapon certs and crafting stats were fixed.
In no way is making it more diffucult for dabblers to dabble being a hipocrate. I am a Master Commando and Master Smuggler with Novice Medic.
If i wanted to work out the points to go up BH and just spam eyeshot then I would find it reasonable to experence some static from other BH's The same would/could go to any other profession.
To dabblers I say the following: If you've already put in the skill points and time to make novice, why not go master? Many of the short comings in the tree are remedied in some form at master. The acruacy mods are HUGE.
To the "50%" who dont like dabblers: Boycott teaching the flame tree
To the "50%" who dont mind dabblers: Don't Boycott teaching the flame tree.
The beauty of a peacefull protest is that no one gets hurt. If a dabbler *or* master-hopfull needs the flame tree, they can still fly to one of several (including player city NPCs) locations to be trained at a price that is equivilant to one or two missions they would then be able to do by themselves.
I agree 100% that much of the frustration Commandos (especially Masters) from PVP stems from being flamed by a dabbler who managed to get that all important first hit.
*AS IT STANDS*
the flame tree is the strongest. reguardless of weather anyone is of the mind that the FT should be weakened or the other trees strengthened, the Flamethrower is the strongest. That said, dabblers will continue to just care about the flame tree. Untill such a time as the rest of the profession is balanced, why not boycott teaching the flame tree? doing so in no way hinders the truly determined. As I stated above it only shows others that by doing so (boycotting) one disagrees with the dabling practice or the lop-sided nature of the profession.
I have voiced my opinion, some will agree some will disagree. *To thine own self be true*
navaTalyus wrote:
Refusing to train others in the flame tree will make it that little bit more difficult to learn. Many of the older Commandos still remember the days when *paying* for training from an NPC was the only way to be taught because there were no masters. Many of us were among the first to master on our respective servers.
This won't have the least bit of an impact on anyone. So they have to pay for training, I did too half the time. It wasn't a big deal to me back when I did it months ago, and it would be even less of a big deal now that I have more money than I know what to do with half the time.
The other conclusion I came to, after 4 months as a Master Commando, was that my pride (staying a Master Commando no matter what) was getting in the way of two things: my ability to be effective in PVP, and my ability to have fun. I have what amounts to three skill lines and a master slot that on so many levels are basically worth jack squat, and I just went and fell from grace becoming...you guessed it...a dabbler.
If I wait around for SOE to fix the class, I may as well just quit now. A ton of the fun in this game is fun I have made myself, what I call internal content. If the Master changes come around like they are supposed to, I will go back, but until then, I shall remain the horrid dabbler I once despised.
On a side note, now that I have tried objectively to see the other side, who cares if people dabble? The fact that a Master Commando is basically toast when it comes to fighting a dabbler is not their fault, lay off them and let them play their character how they want to play it. If it ruins *your* fun to know that someone else is having fun dabbling, then perhaps you need to reassess your own views. Worked for me...
Since there is really no way to stop the amount of dabblers to our profession I suggest we do this the old fasioned way.
You lost me at 'dabblers'. Being able to dabble is the point of the fricken game.
Here's a better idea, give the devstime to balance and fix the tree. Stop trying to punish players for playing the game as intended. If you think dabbling is a problem then I would suggest you drop medic.