Commando Archive

Thread: State of the Commando Profession, May 2005

freez7
Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:04 am
#14

Harv,


I really found you story very interesting. I am having the same issue with my MC. I feel like my weapons are pretty much useless and i want to buy some new one. I can't seem to find any weaponsmiths that have a great heavy weapons.


I shoot my rocket launcher and i get a knockdown right away. I switch to me flame thrower and barely does any damage. I feel that heavy weapons should be doing the most damage above all others. I find also when i'm in a group other people are hitting far more better then i am. I think Master commando should be dominate in this case.


What about hitting the lair's? I can't hit for all that much anymore as well.


I'm also TKM, i see everyone now is using some sort of gun and i can't even get a kick in. Also when i do get a kick in, it takes like nothing out of the enemy. I just find any Matered profession is not worth it.
nbd9k
Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:41 pm
#15






Tyyylowyspetily wrote:



We're closer than many might think to being viable, without being overpowered. It's just a couple of small pieces that are missing, and some old sore spots that really should have been addressed by now (grenades anyone?).




i agree wholeheartedly with this. i dont think we are too far from being set up, if they would just patch a few errors.


actually, i've had similar performance to your own. i tend to hont with my brother, who sports a master BH template, and when i hit, i actually do more damage... but he hits more often with less damage, which does more over time, and he doesnt have to change weapons to get the exact same state effects i try to deliver. i dont mind having to change weapons, but it does bring my overall speed down quite a bit, and over time, im pretty sure i deliver less damage.


dont get me wrong, however.- if Area Effects worked, i would care less about individual damage, as my combat potential would be balanced with the ability to deal damage to multiple targets simultaneously.


it is sad to me, however, that once again, our flame thrower has become our primary staple. i was hoping for a bit more variety.


nbd9k
Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:49 pm
#16






freez7 wrote:

Harv,


I really found you story very interesting. I am having the same issue with my MC. I feel like my weapons are pretty much useless and i want to buy some new one. I can't seem to find any weaponsmiths that have a great heavy weapons.


I shoot my rocket launcher and i get a knockdown right away. I switch to me flame thrower and barely does any damage. I feel that heavy weapons should be doing the most damage above all others. I find also when i'm in a group other people are hitting far more better then i am. I think Master commando should be dominate in this case.


What about hitting the lair's? I can't hit for all that much anymore as well.


I'm also TKM, i see everyone now is using some sort of gun and i can't even get a kick in. Also when i do get a kick in, it takes like nothing out of the enemy. I just find any Matered profession is not worth it.






notably, i started as a commando TKM, but after the rebalance, i found them contradictory professions, and respec'd to commando rifleman. now, i have aranged my stack to provide for the maximum damage i could muster as well as a wide array of state effects. my final template is: marksman 4404, brawler 4000, master rifleman, master commando, novice smuggler, pistoleer 0403.


this configuration gave me substancial access to state effects that i could employ on top of my commando weapons, and gave me the rifleman techniques that allow me to pack a punch if necessary.


ironically, my primary problem is now defense. i am horribly suceptable to melee, and as i tend to hunt creatures, thats the only damage i take. armor only protects me so much, as do buffs etc, so im forced to travel with a doc in order to stay alive and continue to deal damage.
StarNick
Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:02 pm
#17

Yep, we can't go in charging asking for increased power as our weapons (specials) do do state and AoE effects. However, what we need is variation (and the biggest point Ive been posting to the devs, albeit no response) most of all.

The rest, are small pieces missing (like grenade damages, timers, and states or DoT damage, or how blind is really the only state we have that really seems to stick or is useful at the moment...AoE as well, a lot of little pieces). The problem lies in the fact that those little pieces fundamentally add up to what commando is all about, and really hurts the profession concerning its role when they are broken. Hence why we're better off from a combat standpoint post-CU, but worse off from a role standpoint (and practicality in PvE). Funky isn't it?

Our truest issue has to deal with our lack of variation to do damage (with the AoE, as ALL our weapons doing AoE is a bad idea), which ultimately dissallows us to realize our role in the end. The rest are the small pieces that we're trying to get fixed or increased where they're lacking currently.

Message Edited by StarNick on 06-03-2005 08:03 PM

Message Edited by StarNick on 06-03-2005 08:06 PM



--Stern Synex-- --Master Commando-- --IDI Forces--
--Proud Commando of 42 Months-- --Last Commando Correspondent--

We fear no enemy...we are the few, the proud, and the brave. We are, Commando!

Pyro Games

Tyyylowyspetily
Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:59 am
#18






nbd9k wrote:



this is something that im just beginning to experiment with. its these kind of tactics that allow commando to be competitive even with the current weaknesses we are experiencing. although imagine the rocket launcher having that effect as an area weapon. that would be perfect.


you bring up an interesting issue, though. have our weapons been so weakened in order to be more comparable to effects from melee specials? its an iteresting hypothesis, and probably viable, but if it is, why do the bounty hunter specials still pack such a punch?


still, good to know that other people are actually using these things.


anyone else out there that has been field testing the less powerful commando weapons?






Not all BH specials are particularly damaging. Advanced Underhand Shot does very little damage for example. It knocks someone over, but as far as actually inflicting damage, it's a very weak attack. Middle of the road damage is done by shots like Improved Confusion Shot, or Eye Shot. These are designed to inflict states, but also do medium low damage.... very much like the Acid Stream Launcher. The heavy hitting attacks at BH's disposal are what most people associate with the class. Advanced Critical Shot, and Torso shot, or, if they have it, Adcanced Critical Shot, and Improved Led Shot for VERY hard hitting attacks.


All I am saying, is there are reasons the commando weapons don't all hit like a ton of bricks. If they did, their state change attacks would become unbalanced. It's just my opinion of course, but look at it from the standpoint that our weapons actually are special attacks, and then start comparing the numbers. I think you'll quickly see what I am getting at, and why it is so important to keep these things in mind before we ask for the damge on our weapons to be increased on the whole. We could find ourselves truly without special attacks, and in that case, I'd drop for good, never looking back.


Something needs to be done on the high end side of the equation. Most of the weapons are in a damage range that makes sense, given what they do. The real issues, to my way of thinking,are the complete lack of area damage, lack of a high end Kinetic weapon,and the lack of that top end offense that would equal or exceed the damage done by something like Advanced Critical Shot. I know people are discouraged, butI will tell everyone this much. My heavy weapons speed is at 178 while I'm buffed. I went Krayt hunting with a group that included Master BH templates. No one, andI mean, no one, was inflicting damage as quickly asI was with a Plasma FT, and I have the chew marks to prove it. That dragon HATED me like no other. I still feel as though I should not need +20 spd in attachments, and +12 speed courtesy of the FS skills, and a doctor's buff just to outdamage master bounty hunter's without any of these things. There in lies the problem. Without a tremendous amount of credits and time put into it, it just isn't worthwhile. Any profession mastery is really the start of a whole new level of play. I think veteran players know this very well. It's the start of your real advancement into the "end game". Commando needs to be 3/4 of the way through that end game to start to exceed other professions that have yet to get past simple mastery. Not good.


We're closer than many might think to being viable, without being overpowered. It's just a couple of small pieces that are missing, and some old sore spots that really should have been addressed by now (grenades anyone?). I've rambled on long enough. Sorry to hog so much page space.



Tyyy LowYspetily:
_______\^/_______
~ Wookiee at LarGe ~

Filodude
Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:42 am
#19

i never played commando until the respec so i have no idea what im missing.


I was mbh mpistoleer before new cu and took advantage of respec tried out everything i could.


now I am a master commando mbh novice smuggler.


i hunt for income (man and beast) I like dueling and running the themes in pvp mode at 4 am in the morning.


all that useless info aside i have had great success playing the template i regularly switch from pistol to carbine to heavy weapons with all the choices of 0-4-4-4 marksman and mbh for attacks and defences .the defences mcommando offer are great with the mbh and i have not been beaten in a duel yet.


once again im new to the profession and maybe dont know what im missing but hey we all play a little different and thats just my 2 cents. (would still love to see the mcommando profession get hooked up )





*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*FILO*RAID *RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*FILO *RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*MASTTERBLASTER *LAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*FILOPPIAN-DUDE *RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*PRE-CU *RADI*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*IAIR*RDID*RADA*RAID *RAII*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*CU*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID*RAID<>
VitoGenovese
Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:56 am
#20

Hooray for the commando rally!



______________________
Adapt! Or be Darwined.
I don't believe in the Force anymore, but I do believe in Karma.
Theosar
Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:42 am
#21

/sign



Excellent post StarNick, I hope it will hit home with the developers.


Theo






__________________________________________
THEOSAR GREENSIDE
__________________________________________
.: R E B E L C O U N C I L :.
Republic Storm Commando
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum! "
Ternque01
Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:33 pm
#22

I wonder if the devs even read this well done work.


They seemed very clueless about the top concerns of many professions at FanFest. It was like they never ever heard of them before.





Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
frankenstienmonster
Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:18 pm
#23

nice work on this




Whenever fanning the flames of conquest, Remember that you to can be burned.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rangers lead the way.

A Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air. I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move further, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.
Xix13
Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:43 pm
#24

Great work, as always, StarNick, and I hope it reaches receptive ears/eyes.


Points of interest about weapons resource costs. It's not just commando weapons that didn't have their resource requirements brought in-line with their new uses and levels. All guns were ignored except for one: The T21. They actually lowered the resource requirements of T21s (from 10 power handlers to 5, making them now able to be easily krayted). They made no differentiation in resource requirements for novice and master level weapons, the few there are. The Laser Rifle and the Adv Laser Rifle, for example, take exactly the same stuf and amounts. They didn't adjust things either. The Geo Blaster is the most expensive pistol to make, and it's just a CL 30 energy weapon. The E11 Mark II carbine, CL54/MCarbs, is an extremely powerful gun that takes far less to make than the CL40/- DXR6 carbine. So resource requirements for guns are just all out of whack. They simply never touched 'em. Melee weapons show similar inconsistencies. They swapped the power and levels of the VL and LVA, for instance, but the LVA takes a LOT more stuf to make than the VL. The Scythe (Energy/acid, CL50/MSwordFinesse) and the Hack (Kinetic, CL30/-) still take exactly the same resources. So they really never touched any of the weapons as far as what it takes to make them. We're not alone in that respect, and it makes it very difficult for mid-level combat profs to find the weapons they need.






-- Xixor (FS Master Doc/Master Pistoleer -- CANCELLED) "I know what you're thinking: Why, oh why, didn't I take the BLUE pill?"
-- Xixasaurus (Padawanasaurus/Privateer) "Green is Good"
-- Xixette (12pt-Master Artisan/12pt-Master DE/12pt-Master WS) "Think Pink!"
-- Xixell (FS Master Pikeman/Master Swordsman/Rebel Pilot) -- "Anybody for some ants?"
-- Xixdoggie Dawg (Master Rifledogg/Master Ranger) "Woof"
-- XixTheFish (12-pt Master Chef)
samijx
Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:01 am
#25






Xix13 wrote:

Great work, as always, StarNick, and I hope it reaches receptive ears/eyes.


Points of interest about weapons resource costs. It's not just commando weapons that didn't have their resource requirements brought in-line with their new uses and levels. All guns were ignored except for one: The T21. They actually lowered the resource requirements of T21s (from 10 power handlers to 5, making them now able to be easily krayted). They made no differentiation in resource requirements for novice and master level weapons, the few there are. The Laser Rifle and the Adv Laser Rifle, for example, take exactly the same stuf and amounts. They didn't adjust things either. The Geo Blaster is the most expensive pistol to make, and it's just a CL 30 energy weapon. The E11 Mark II carbine, CL54/MCarbs, is an extremely powerful gun that takes far less to make than the CL40/- DXR6 carbine. So resource requirements for guns are just all out of whack. They simply never touched 'em. Melee weapons show similar inconsistencies. They swapped the power and levels of the VL and LVA, for instance, but the LVA takes a LOT more stuf to make than the VL. The Scythe (Energy/acid, CL50/MSwordFinesse) and the Hack (Kinetic, CL30/-) still take exactly the same resources. So they really never touched any of the weapons as far as what it takes to make them. We're not alone in that respect, and it makes it very difficult for mid-level combat profs to find the weapons they need.







It's a piece of cake compared to the DE-10, which coincidently sux after the CU.








Sami-jx (Naritus)
Master Weaponsmith, Master Armorsmith, Master Artisan, Merchant 4043

Sambacca (Naritus)
Master Bounty Hunter, Master Combat Medic, Carbineer 0400, Reflexes 0300
Galerion
Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:59 am
#26

they still haven't fixed anything, are they ever going to read this?
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