Commando Archive
Thread: 2 bothersom things from tonight's HOC chat
Pelf wrote:
Ok, if a Commando get to be the 'real soldier', since i'm a rifleman, i want to aim and one hit kill him w/a sniper rifle /sarcasm off.Having everyone running around w/the same profession(s) is a waste of the versatility that SWG is more less 'supposed' to have. And balance is basicly whythe CU is being done, to make each profession worth playing, not just one.
And you can already aim and one-hit kill with snipershot as far as I know.
Helios_SOE wrote:
Novock wrote:
1. A new system will be brought in making weapons certed by level rather than proffession.
Weapon certs can now be tied to a combat level + a specific skill box + a specific race
So, all three of these scenarios could happen:
1. Weapon is certed to anyone with a combat level of at least X
2.Weapon is certed to anyone witha combat level of at least X AND have achieved Skill Box N
3. Weapon is certed to anyone with a combat level of at least X AND have achieved Skill Box N AND is of raceK.
Most weapons currently fall into "1", some fall into "2" (mostly iconic and profression defining weapons) and very few(currently only bowcasters)fall into "3".
Still, one beef I've always had is that there were no decent specials for me to use--rephrase that, no specials that carried over to more than one weapon. Flamesingle and Flamecone with flamethrower, that sort of thing. It made my usual habit of having a separate combat bar for every weapon seem bloody silly.
All other combat profs seem to be defined by their abilities, not their weapons; a Rifleman is still one whatever he's using, a Swordsman is still one if he's using a powerhammer (little though that makes sense to me, a Swordsman's top weapon is a blunt object)...how can we make our profession more viable, less the 'flavor of the month' that let's face it, it already is for a lot of people, FS grinders go for the grenade line, y'know. If specials could be the answer...let's get some! Coneshot with whatever weapon we hold (provided it's a real coneshot--cones, y'know, are cone-shaped, not standing and firing in all directions! Sometimes I don't WANT to fire at what's behind me), other state attacks besides just burn, that sort of thing? I'd like to stay Commando awhile, I earned it, not find myself thinking, 'Y'know, I could drop Commando and even all ranged, go Swordsman on top of TKM and have a buncha skill points left...'
Ewach wrote:
Novock wrote:
As a master Smuggler/Master Pistoller 0/4/0/0 BH you can fire a plasma FT withh 66 speed and 187 accuracy due to general mods.
Yea - I can just imagine a smuggler doing "Last Ditch Shot" with a Flamethrower - look out, here it comes!
Given the insane delay mod with Last Ditch and the slow weapon stats of the FT, I don't know why you'd use one with only a +66 speed mod.
Why not just use a DE-10? Sure you'd be doing less damage per hit, but you could get4 hits off in the same time it would take you to land one with a FT
JemyM wrote:
Pelf wrote:
Ok, if a Commando get to be the 'real soldier', since i'm a rifleman, i want to aim and one hit kill him w/a sniper rifle /sarcasm off.Having everyone running around w/the same profession(s) is a waste of the versatility that SWG is more less 'supposed' to have. And balance is basicly whythe CU is being done, to make each profession worth playing, not just one.
Commando are still Commando. If they arent "Commando" why even have them in SWG?
And you can already aim and one-hit kill with snipershot as far as I know.
SamousNemo wrote:
Novock wrote:
As a master Smuggler/Master Pistoller 0/4/0/0 BH you can fire a plasma FT withh 66 speed and 187 accuracy due to general mods. Thats pretty decent handling of a weapon seeming you can not only get our special (commando specials are buiolt into the weapon) but you get the specials from your proffession as well.
Taking your own example all you gain by masterin commando was 30 points of speed and 40 points of accuracy. An entire proffession for 30 points of speed and 40 ponits of accuracy 0 specials 0 counter moves fairly common defense mods.
Regardless of how "decent" you are with a weapon, you still won't be as good with it unless you pick up the associated profession. Yeah, a Master Smuggler/MP/BH x4xx could wield a Flame Thrower "decently," but they'd still be better off using a De-10 or a Renegade Pistolin a fight. If a non-commando tries using a commando weapon against a commando, the commando is going to out damage him every time.
I agree, the lack of specials and recoveries in commando is a problem, but that's a different topic that could still be fixed even with the level-based certs.
It maybe a seprate topic for everyone else but our specials are in those weapons which make them the same topic for us if you can't see that then you don't understand the proffession. We have no body shot, sniper shot, concussion shot, eye shot we have NO SPECIALS apart from our weapons. Why is that so hard to understand and why are you trying so hard to keep us broke?
Have you ever seen the movier "Scrooged" with Bill Murray.... "somtimes you have to slap them in the face to their attention..." now where's my toaster.
SamousNemo wrote:
I really don't see the big stink over the whole weapon certs with level thing, am I missing something?
Yes, anyone will be able to use heavy weapons given that their level is high enough, but what would be the point?
Say I'm a MBH/MP/MM/Carb x3xx: my abilities with a pistol are nearly unparalled, but I want to use a flame thrower "just to look cool." Problem is, the only mods that will work with the FT are my generic accuracy and speed mods, which I have +215 and +75 of respectively.
Now say I'm a Master Commando/Carb x4xx/MBH (I'm using MBH in both examples because it has the best generic mods of all the professions). Not only do I have my generic mods of +200 Acc and +60 Sp, but I also have my Heavy Weapon mods of +55 Acc and +45 Sp, giving me a combined total of +255 Acc and +105 Sp. Not to mention I also have +50 HW defense that the above template lacks.
Granted, the Pistoleer template could useHeavy weapons, but they'd be much better off using a Pistol than a FT, so why would they use one in a fight? Yeah,they could opt to just walk around with one to look cool, but how is that any different than now?They still wouldn't be proficient enough with one to use in a fight.
The question is, is there really THAT big a difference between 200 accuracy and 255 accuracy and 60 speed and 105 speed when you're using a weapon as powerful as the heavy weapons are anyway.
On paper it looks like a decent gap, in game, I bet its barely noticeable.
garvin wrote:
This is something that I posted elsewhere, but since Helios has been so awesome in keeping an eye on our concerns, I was hoping, if he has time, he could address this concern as well...it's a pretty big one....taken from the HOC chat.
*Le_Jedi_Fou* Hello devs. Question : with the new CU, it's very hard to start another combat profession when you're already have a Combat Level. Fighting a mob level 3 unarmed with Novice Brawler will grant no XP because your combat level is too high (Master Carbineer). What is your plan about that ?
*Keldarin* The new weapon certification system should also help alleviate this problem. Once you have leveled to a certain point with a given profession you will be able to use a comparably leveled weapon from another profession. You would not be nearly as powerful as the same level player from that profession but it will help greatly in earning experience for the new profession.
Message Edited by garvin on 04-14-2005 09:42 AM
Commando weapons should all have a skill box requirement in addition to their level requirement. In the current build they don't work this way. That's a bug that will be fixed in an upcoming TC publish. Nothing has changed for commando certs with the new system.
WHEW!!!
They just wanted to make us sweat it.
Message Edited by Novock on 04-14-2005 12:18 PM
Novock wrote:
It maybe a seprate topic for everyone else but our specials are in those weapons which make them the same topic for us if you can't see that then you don't understand the proffession. We have no body shot, sniper shot, concussion shot, eye shot we have NO SPECIALS apart from our weapons. Why is that so hard to understand and why are you trying so hard to keep us broke?
I'm not trying to keep you broke, I just don't see how it is you are broke.
I'm not a commando, so please have some patience with me as I try to understand how your specials work. Certain HW have dots, some have AoE, some have posture changes, and all havehigh damage, yes?
So what I'm saying is, keep the level-based certs in the game, but also add other specials to the commando profession. I know you already have AoE, DOTs, and Posture changes built into your guns, but maybe add in some specials that increase damage? That way you could use damage specials with a weapon that already has high damage (giving you extremely hard hitting moves) without needing to go into professions like BH for specials like critical shot. If AoE, DOTs, and Posture change specials were added, you wouldn't need to switch to a FT for a DOT and a Rocket Launcher for a KD. Instead you could use whichever weapon you wanted for the desired effect without dealing with the weapon switch delay. However, each weapon would keep its unique elemental damage, so the variety in HW wouldn't be useless.
The same could be done with state recoveries. If recoveries were added into the commando prof, you wouldn't need to pick up Pist xx4x (which has the recoveries with the least amount of SP required, but not much else), but instead could go for another line for more useful mods/specials. Again, this could be accomplished with a level-based cert system.
Anyone have a link to where it says HW will stay Commando skill certed? If so, I wouldn't have a problem with it, sounds like it would make a lot of people happy.
Accamim wrote:
Wrong place for this but my alt is a master commando.
I'm really happy we get a CU. If we didn't, there would be an SWG2, everyone would quit SWG1 (it would die)and play SWG2 and start all over, we'd lose are friends, our identities, our customers, our cities, everything and start with a level playing field. At least they are attempting to preserve theplaying field for us.
Huh???? Oh yeah, I feel really preserved.
Pelf wrote:
The first part, commandos are indeed commandos, but what your definition of a commando is isn't the same as others. Telling ppl 'if you want tobe decent or 'rule'in combat you must pick this profession' (because this one guy thinks it should be the best) is not a good way to run things. We should all be able to achieve the same goal, the difference should be how we get there, be it massive damage, crowd control, whatever.
(and i came on here in defense of commandos keeping the big guns, and a sense of self, grrrrrrr)
Commando is supposed to be an elitesoldier, good enough to execute missions on their own legs behind enemy lines, without help from their superiors.
This suggests that Commando should be the master Combat profession, trained in all kinds of combat, trained for team work, trained for solo.
For balance, a Commando should naturally have higher skillpoint cost than generic professions, differing only based on what kind of weaponspecialization they have on top of "Master Commando".
WinstonX wrote:
Khog wrote:
For crying out loud - they just don't listen. Not even when 70% of their testers consistently say the new level based system is crud.
If the weapon system is as qualified in this thread then that would seem ok.
If the re-spec is as stated then that stinks, what about the crafting professions they mucked up and? and where they removed SP requirements from novice - we have no way to reallocate them to elite - that screws a number of professions, not least commando.
What the hell do we have to do to get them to listen?
That's because they deny a) that it's a "new level based system" instead saying its the same system they just made it easier to understand, and b) that testers are saying anything negative that isn't due to shock with new features...
I wish they would give some of us the credit we deserve. I am involved in designing and implementing change IRL, I welcome change with an open mind, but I also know a really bad system when I see one.
The old system is in severe need of change, but I would prefer the old system to this bag of worms. No matter what is said about the old system it doesn't feel like a level-based system to the player - it feels as though the skills count.
If I had a choice I would apply the profession, HAM and weapon changes to the old system and ammend the mobs to match. Failing that just don't change the old system for all its failings its better than this pile of ...