Commando Archive
Thread: After reading the post on tomorrows Update, I had enough.. e' finito
Holocron wrote:
People simply dont want to play on TC because of the low population and also because they dont want to waste time into advancing on a test platform. To increase the population, you should consider boosts, maybe in form of XP terminals.
There's also the barrier to entry to getting to TC (a separate install and such).
If we do boosts on TC, we're a bit worried that we won't get accurate testing. It's clear though that something needs to be done to make TC more appealing.
(...)
I will say that character copy to TC is one of the things that we have been discussing a lot.
Character copying to TC will not introduce inaccuracy in testing -- the inaccuracy is already there, and there's literally nothing you can do to alleviate it. Any character which is on the TC when a new patch is introduced will have endured a leveling process which is different from the current process. Whether it was endured during the previous versions or endured on a live server is irrelevant. Unless a player takes a character from Novice Marksman to Master Commando in the span of a single patch, you will never truly know what the leveling process is like, and that is highly unlikely in any event.
-c.
Ill agree that bugs need to be handled properly, and that they take time to fix, and that you can't just fix something without testing it. However, us beta testers, your beta testers, clearly told you how buggy the software was. This wasn't a case of everything being squeekly clean in beta and then release bringing up unexpected issues. This is a case of things being buggy in beta, still buggy in release. I'm sorry, but no. The normal rules of 'a month to relase fixes' does not apply here. You just release this pos (you decide what the s stands for) and it's full of bugs that ruin the playability of it. Exploits have been fixed in the game, without touching the effects they've already had on the fragile economy. Bugs hold back playing customers from playing the game you've promised to them.
Nothing you're seeing here is new. Nothing has changed since beta. There are unfixed bugs, that to my knowledge are not addressed in tomorrows patch, that I personaly /bugged back in beta. Beta itself was rushed and crammed and while there were a lot of good fixes coming out of it, everything fell apart two days before release.
4 days before release I personaly saw 5 bugs squashed in a 12 hour time frame. 5 game critical bugs, 4 days released, squashed in a 12 hour time frame. And I witnessed all of those myself, in game, with one character. I hate to say it, but you guys havn't finished the job, you havn't released a stable product to the customers, so you don't get to stop working 16+ hour shifts. I, and a good portion of the other beta testers that remain, know you can quickly deal with these issues if you put your foot forward and get to work on it.
Instead, you're off at conferences, you're marketing the buggy game, you're developing new features (that were originaly promised for launch), but you're not putting in as much effort as you could in fixing the bugs at hand.
There was a big rush to get as many bugs fixed as possible, in fact I'd say more were fixed the 3 days before the last servers went down than the 'biggest patch ever' that happened a few days earlier, bug all that ended once the last beta server went down, and 'release' started. The programmers and developers have done a great job, but frankly, it isn't good enough. Not yet. Not this way. Don't gimmie this bs about 'other mmos have lots of bugs so we do to'... just because the other mmo's fire their head designers does that mean SoE is going to fire Lucas over this one? Origin did it... Are you going to lose a bunch of customers, release the next big expansion pack, and then offer a free month to 'checkout the new (bugs in) swg!' to all the customers you've lost? Funcom did it... Are you going to run this pos into the ground, never fixing the core logic bugs, and in the end, come up with swg 2 that's supposed to be everything that swg was supposed to be but wasnt? SoE already did it... why not again?
Holo... the normal rules don't apply here. You knowingly sold us buggy software, with the intent of fixing it AFTER we've already paid for both the client and the monthly fee, and that's downright unethical. I didnt pay $50+ and $15 a month to continue to beta test your software, I expect it to work. I expect it to do what you say it will do. I do expect some level of bugs, but I come from a world of 99.999% accuracy. We're dealing with at beast 75% accuracy, in an interdependant system that effectivley lowers that to 35%. I can't craft any medium or large floral harvesters because no one can craft a harvesting mechanism. It's been over a month since release, and I've spoken with people that bugged this in beta. You were quick to change how harvesters charge maintenance fees, so that we can't run them into the ground, but you don't seem to care to address the issue of off vs on maintenance, nor have you given much effort towards fixing harvesters that charge double, sometimes quadrouple, maintenance fees. It took maybe a week to change harvesters so that they stop working when their maintenance runs out, that's probably what put in the double/quadrouplemaintenance bug, and it's been over a month since I started noticing/reporting the double/quadrouple maintenance bug, but it hasn't been fixed yet.
You don't get the luxury of taking your time at this, you already sold the product, knowing it was full of bugs. You say you don't have enough time to get it done any better/quicker? then make more time. Hire more developers and programmers and designers to tackle the task at hand. If you can't do it with the team you've got, add to the team.
Holo, thanks for taking the time to respond and take a look see.
Holo,
Thnak you for the information. I understand how frustrating this must be. But please continue to provide as much information as you can. It does make a difference to some of us.
Zaphod
Novice Commando
Ahazi
Sorry to see you go guy, I've been following the forum and its going to be sad to see you leave. The reason I was following it was because I was hoping to read something about Bio-Engineer as well. Another semi broken class. The nerfing of the CH is so bad, that the development team probably doesn't even know what to do with the BE class, but at least we are getting a bone with the stimpacks (I guess, even though we are a creature building class).
Haplo
Ok... I have been playing since Phase 2 and this profession has been completly broken since then IMO. I know this isn't just my opinion either.. quite a vast majority of the players have always thought this. A couple of things were changed, but as things currently sit, the profession is absolutly a waste of anyone's time to even think of using. We cannot do any damage with any weapon of ours except the Flamethrower to gain Heavy Weapons experience, and that gun only does around 250 damage every 6 seconds. The "specials" do the same damage, with the same horribly low to-hit ratio and cause a 15second delay. The thing that I have posted over and over and over here.. is that we have responses knowing that the devs see whats wrong and are "working on it". However, these problems have existed for quite some time.. to just NOW have them addressed at all is a pain in itself. To know that I reached Commando in live play within the first 3 weeks of my free month.. and I have been sitting with only one skill box gained in Heavy Weapons ever since.. is completly rediculous. I have had to watch friends of mine join the game weeks after me and fly up to master their chosen professions while I just had to give up entirely on mine so I could train Pistoleer to use specials with MY profession's weapon.
Yes.. we know things are being "worked on". We know the Test Center has to "test" things before they go live. Well.. quite honestly I would like to know how things can be tested on the TC when we have been in contact with the one Commando we know there who is capable of using the Heavy Weapons specials to give us feedback on the damage... yet he can not due to no resource shifting being done on TC??? I know personally I just need to know that our profession is actually going to take shape within the next month, because I can not sit here and play as a Musician/Pistoleer forever and continue to pay to do so.. I did not ever want to choose either of those professions, I did so out of pure boredom and lack of ability to group with my friends or progress as a Commando.
I know a lot of uninformed posts come and go here quite rapidly. The problem is.. those of us who are informed are still quite uninformed indivudals themselves. Perhaps the questions were never asked in detail enough such that we could get the responses we were looking for within the Correspondant letters.. but as somebody once said it seems as if we are talking with somebody who knows everything about the subject, while we know little to nothing, and when they try to relay the information it comes out as a big vague blanket of useless information to us.
For example... we have no hardcore facts as to what is really being done for us except the certification fixes. We have no idea just HOW tweaked our damage output will be. It was said that it would be enough to outweigh the timer on the specials. If this is so, after timing my 6.0 speed Flamethrower yesterday using my first special.. I had a 19 second delay after fire. That type of ratio when comparing to say.. a Rifleman.. we would have to hit for ungodly amounts of damage that I would think could cause a serious inbalance. Yet we only know that the weapons "are" working correctly and no speed/damage changes will take place??
I'm trying not to make this sound much of a flame just in case you decide to come back and give us yet another response here Holo 
I just know these are the main issues regarding why I myself am a little miffed and about ready to hit the highway myself. I have been paying to run around and play everything except the profession I chose weeks ago because it quite honestly is completly broken. The only skill boxes I could forsee myself really going up is the Field Tactics line since it is Combat Exp.. I could grind it out with some other weapons. The Heavy Weapons boxes I know so many Commandos exploited the Jax and Baz Nitch missions with.. I really don't blame them.. it still did not catch them up to those who have unbroken professions due to how horribly slow our flamethrower works for dealing damage. (btw I do not condone using exploits.. cut I understand any Commando's frustration in exploiting such things).
We have had hundreds upon hundreds of unique individual posts regarding our profession. Even those from OTHER professions are giving us sympathy after seeing just how bad it is within the game. Many of these people are playing professions such as the Bio-Engineer that needs quite a facelift in itself. There has been a huge ongoing plea not because we don't want to be nerfed, not because we want some super powerful abilities, we just want to freaking work and be able to at LEAST seem like a usable profession when it comes to combat. Right now I have been deemed to be the Entertainer in the field with my nice particle effects, because I don't do even a small fraction of damage that my friends do.
If you took the time to read through this I hope it explains a little more of the frustration, problems, and just what it is we really need... hardcore information and quicker return times... we can't sit forever with an entirely broken profession and "enjoy" it on any level.
~Caoilte - Commando
Holocron wrote:
So I checked on the status of the weapon certs, and all of them are supposedly fixed on TC. That means that you should be getting them within a week (probably quite soon).
They are in the patch tomorrow rocket scientist.
BRAVO! I'm glad to see you actually jumping into the fray, takes guts (seriously). I have a suggestion though. There should be a list somewhere of concerns that are brought up to you guys, that you know about and are currently looking at/addressing. Not all of the changes or problems with the game - I dont need to know about the router going to server 24 needs to have the correct DNS entry readjusted to allow the flow of nuclear power from the near by power plant, but just the ones that would affect the player directly. LIke professions, I know for Bio-Engineer we haven't heard a THING on broken, not broken, fixing not fixing, yes/no, nada. Its the unknown that is killed the players.
Alot of times when I come into the game and run across something I'm not sure of, I dont know if its a bug or its a natural thing that the programmers have put in. Example would be Bio Engineer cloning, we haven't gotten any offical response to that at all.
BTW, I would join the test center, but every time me or my roommate try to install it, it crashs HORRIBLY. And to be honest, all we get from tech support is "send us your DXinfo.txt" or some file like that. Its not worth it for us to troubleshoot a "test center" install.
Please dont think I'm flaming, I just care so dang bad I would like the problem fixed.
Haplo
The correspondant system is nice and all, but it doesn't help out the player community at all with information about what is being worked on and isn't (again i'm looking at the commando, bio-engineering forums)
Holocron wrote:
As far as testing on TC--yes, it's woefully underpopulated. The folks playing there are trying as hard as they can and doing a good job, but we'd love to see more of you over there so that stuff gets better testing and broader input. It's going to take more players on TC to make that happen.
Here's an idea Q, not an original one, but one none-the-less. Have character copies onto the testserver. For example, allow me to character copy my Bounty Hunter/Armorsmith on Bloodfin onto the test server. Then I would go over to the test server and test the new Armorsmithing changes. Otherwise, screw it. I'm not going to the test server to start all over again to get to Novice Armorsmith. Your game already takes too much of my time.
Then, I would test there often, knowing I have the same looking character that I have on another server with the same skills.
Xahn wrote:
Sorry you feel this way. We'll start looking for a replacement immediately.
Ouch Xahn! Are you giving him the bird or what?
I have an engineering degree and did my share of software development in my time. Most of us do not appreciate theamount of time and effort you guys have put out to developthis game. I can see how you would be upset by the obvious lack ofappreciation of your effort expressed bythe post the Commando Correspondent wrote. Don't take it to heart.
Many playershave made a lesser but still significant investment in this game as well and had to pay for the priviledge. Recently, the communications have been one way,from player to developer for the most part. Its unfortunate that there had to be a blow up before we got any feedback from the dev team. Feedback thatwould probably have given us a muchbetter appreciation ofthe work that you do. Your team shouldstep up and take some responsibility for theirown silence.
I would like to suggest that you guys provide regular feedback to the community. If you want the players to give you top issues every week, then you should respond to them at least once a week. If it takes you two weeks to respond, then collect issues every two weeks. The main thing is to be predictable and reliable. Don't ask for feedback every week and not respond in kind. Customers are not lesser human beings!
I think you should give the Commando Correspondent some time to cool off, and then try to start a dialog with him. If you can turn him around, that would be a coup I think.
Girabaldi, if they try to work this out, give them the opportunity. This game has a long way to go to meet all of our expectations, but it does have a lot of potential. There could be a lot in it for everyone if the player/developer bridge can be gapped.
Gwid: Been said, they are discussing it.
Katrina: And the resource issue? I have not seen even a luncher pistol on Eclipse. Some grenades but that is it. Some BH's are playing with thier LLC's (saw one just outside Tyrena playing with it)butHLC is not even a twinkle of thought to the Weaponsmiths.