Commando Archive
Thread: Heavy Weapons, some info from a Weaponsmith.
Page 1 of 3
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:42 am
#1
Hi all.
Again, I'm not looking to get into the basic Commando issues with this, or debate if Heavy Weapons are worth your while or not.
I'm just looking to deal with one thing: the complaint that Heavy Weapons are too inaccurate to use.
For the most part, I've just made Heavy Weapons like every other weapon I make. I'm pretty sure that every other weaponsmith in every other Galaxy does the same. Because Commandos don't talk to us.
We see Heavy Weapons just sitting on the vendor, and we think 'well, why bother making them, if no-one wants them?'.
And so, I've made some Heavy weapons slightly differently to 'standard' ones. They're accurate. Significantly more so than normal.
First off, the Lightening Beam Cannon.
And the Accurate Lightening Beam Cannon.
As you can see, the Ideal Range Modifier on the Accurate LBC is almost *double* the normal, as it's not normally all that huge. I've been told by one of my testers that this makes a huge difference for this weapon specifically.
The cost? 50 points of Max Damage, and about 0.5 of a second firing time.
Next up, the Heavy Particle Beam Cannon, and the Accurate Heavy Particle Beam Cannon.
Again, the Ideal Range modifier almost doubles, as it's generally quite a low Accuracy weapon.
Don't ask me why the Accurate one has a higher Max damage than the norm, sometimes it just happens. 
And you only lose 0.3 seconds of speed.
I'm told this made a moderate difference to the 'shots landed' in-the-field, as the HPBC is fairly accurate anyway, due to Commando Skills.
And finally, the Acid Stream Launcher, and the Accurate Acid Stream Launcher.
You gain about 50% of the Ideal Range modifier again for this, it appears to be a reasonably accurate gun as it stands. Again, the Damage on the Accurate Model is a little higher than my normal one. Actually, I suspect the Normal ones used older materials, and thus are a little lower on Damage than they could be.
As for speed, only 0.2 seconds are lost. IE: nothing.
Now, I can't guarentee these exact stats *every* time, as I'm not Maxxing out any particular experimentation line. So there's a little variation between the Accurate models. But I'd like to think I can easily keep the damage/speed within +/- 5% of those stats. As should any decent weaponsmith.
If anyone on Starsider wants to test these out, I'm prepared to give a free Normal and a free Accurate weapon out for testing purposes.
Feedback would be *very* appreciated. 
StarNick
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:59 am
#2
Good info to know, alot of Weaponsmiths dont know the plight of the Commandos...and either don't make HW weapons or simply just max out the damage and/or speed while totally ignoring range mods.
Off your other posts about HW weapons and where to experiment them to....im using that to custom order ingame for my commando armory im building....so you're making a nice contribution to our forums with all the weapon information .
.Also...not only the accuracies....but the biggest complaint on the HW weapons are the extreme reduction of accuracy outside the ideal range...especially as they drop SO much, does that mean a measly 5-10 meters from ideal range makes us horribly inaccurate? By far thats a huge complaint, as then these weapons would only be effective against moving targets....making their use limited.
Also, in their current incarnation...many believe that they should hardly miss at all due to their speed, vulnerability (to the user), and the cost. I agree mostly on this...by not only having great ideal accuracy on the weapon itself, but a significant boost on our accuracy mods (make the HW weapons like rifle accuracy....our LP and basic weapons feed off Pistoleer, our gernades feed off of ranged support, our [proposed] Assault weapon/carbine/AR feeds off carbineer, our HW weapons feeding off the rifle accuracies from our rifle pre-req....while the unarmed pre-req arguements all these into an effective fighting force)
Good work though
nbd9k
Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:40 pm
#3
I must say, i am impressed. thats quite an improvement, and i wish i was on starsider to test them. what kind of fluxuation do you get between results on average, and what kind of results have you been able to generate in other commando weaponry? This is quite promising, and i may try to see if i can get my local WS to mimic your procedure.
-harv
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:37 pm
#4
In fairness, the ones I posted were the best ones. Though I only made 4.
Just talking about the ASLs:
Max Damage ranges from 2980 to 3181.
Speed from 5.5 to 5.9.
Ideal on all of them is +76.
Uses range from 31 to 35.
The 2980 is actually one of the faster ones, at 5.5spd.
Sometimes you get a weird experimenation point, that bumps up the speed, but drops the damage. It's complex, and it's a balancing act.
So, damage-wise, you're talking about a 200pt variance which is what..... a 6% variance from worst to best? Or thereabouts.
Hmmm...
Just checked the FT, and it too uses the Stock, but no Scope, so it coulbe subject to the same treatment as above.
Would losing, say, 20pts of damage and slowing down by up to 0.5sec (base speed) worth it for a better chance to hit?
I can do the same for the HAR, though it's got a scope, so I reckon it's moderately accurate already. I mean, it's Ideal Range Mod is on par with most Carbines and Pistols, as they are already, and your HAR accuracy at Master Commando is on par with wot I get at Master Carbineer.
But, I'm happy to make a couple test models if I can get some volunteers to try them out?
SinjenRandall
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:41 pm
#5
Just going to testify. I tested some of these accurate heavy weapons.
The Acid Stream Launcher became a deadly weapon when more accurate. It went from a weapon I hated to a weapon I used. This is especially useful on higher-level Tuskens.
The Lightning Beam Cannon was also much more reliable. The only think I still don't like about it can't be changed by a weaponsmith, though, and that's the AP. But when I do find a chance to fire this weapon, this version is nice and reliable.
The Particle Beam Cannon I am sure became more accurate, but I found it to be aless tangible improvement than the others. Still, I am sure that more accuracy certainly didn't hurt anything.
Overall, these were very nice improvements.
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:44 pm
#6
the only thing that sucks about all this?
All the older weapons I gotta go junk now.
I don't want people buyin'em thinking Commando weapons are crap. 
SinjenRandall
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:48 pm
#7
Brilyn wrote:
the only thing that sucks about all this?
All the older weapons I gotta go junk now.
I don't want people buyin'em thinking Commando weapons are crap.
Don't throw them away! Give them to me to play with! I will use them on Durni and Chuba!
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:51 pm
#8
Done.
Hell, I'll just drop the price down to 1k each, so I at least make *some* of my resource-cost back.
But yeah, I need to make them as "el cheapo. Buy the Accurate stuff!"
Warmaker01
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:17 pm
#9
Good information. That accurized ASL looks great. Any luck with the Rocket Launcher? If we manage to land a hit on someone with one, it's usually quite spectacular.
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
Brilyn
Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:37 pm
#10
Well, the Rocket Launcher doesn't use Stocks at all.
I can only presume that the WS you go to used the Advanced Scopes experimented for accuracy.
What's the Ideal Range Modifier on the ones you typically use?
Brilyn
Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:07 am
#11
Sorry, I meant to post in the main text:
If you're asking for Accurate Heavy Weaponry, ask the Weaponsmith for an Accuracy-experimented Stock. This is the key change.
This is not a loot drop or anything, this is a standard Stock experimented in a different fasion.
They'll possibly charge through the nose for this. To use me as an example, I have crates of Stocks experimented for Damage. I now need to make a *second* run of stocks for Accuracy.
It's a minor blip on my annoyance radar, but some people have low tolerances.
Experimenting on Accuracy on the final weapon itself does *very* little (same for all weapons, bar Grenades, pretty much).
RazerWolf
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:17 am
#12
As far as Flamethrowers are concerned, accuracy isn't too much of a priority. Flame specials usually hit often enough, but with a 4x delay modifier and only +45 Speed at Master, losing 0.5 speed is a huge penalty. Although if I were to get some decent Krayt Tissues, I'd consider the extra accuracy.
LuciusScipio
Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:34 am
#13
Great post! I'm definitely going to go to your shop tommorrow morning and load up on some accurate acid stream launchers and lightning canons for my guid's corvette mission later this week.
Edit: I just thought that going with the accurate acid stream launcher (medium armor piercing) may be REAL useful against Super Battle Droids who happen to have medium armor. I'm going to test it this week to see.
Message Edited by LuciusScipio on 08-24-2004 10:36 AM
Page 1 of 3