Commando Archive

In the past 2 weeks, I have seen you post at least a dozen times that you "are in favor of a reduction of the fire dot."I have also read posts from you that you are talking to the devs about reducing the fire dot. While I do value your opinion, I do not think this is the sort of thing you should be posting on the boards. The main reason for this is that as correspondant, what you say is given a lot of weight. Also, as of yet I have not seen you host any discussion of the subject where a majority of commandos considered the issue and said a reduction of the fire dot is appropriate.Ivoni has several posts on these boards where he ran actualnumbers and showed that our damage/dot is NOT unbalanced. If you are going to represent us, please do not advocate issues like reducing the fire dot that will adversely affect the class without checking with us first.

Now, I also think that a reduction of the fire dot is the one thing you should be telling the devs NOT to nerf. Consider the following:

(1) The flamethrower can do 4k to 5k damage per hit with flame single. HOWEVER, this has a 10 to 15 second delay. This means that we can do, at a maximum, 300 to 500 damage per second. There are TONS of combat classes that also get dots,AND which can do well over 500 damage per second (pistoleer can do over 1000; as a master pikeman, I have done between 3k and 4k damageconsistently every3 seconds). Their damage + their dot> our damage + our dot.

In other words, if the fire dot is reduced in line with all other dots, we are confined to doing the same OR LESS damage than almost every other combat class, despite the fact that it takes twice as many skill points to master commando. This is not acceptable.

In fact, as it currently stands, I often get outdamaged by teras kasi, pikeman, and pistoleers. It is simply not acceptable for the devs to even CONSIDER dropping our damage any more than it currently is. Q and Holocron themselves have said that they believe the flamethrower and fire dot are currently balanced.

(2) There ARE lots of nerf calls on commandos. HOWEVER, all of those nerf calls come from 2 classes of players:

(a) Those that complain every time any class beats them in pvp, and should be ignored; and

(b) Those that are complaining about commando (1) one shot kills, or (2) wounds (NOT DAMAGE) from the flame dot. A lot of players complain about commandos doing over 1000 damage in pvp (one shot kill), or about commandos blackening their ham bars. However, NO ONE is complaining that the damage from our flame dot is unbalancing. I don't see any justification for us to nerf ourselves by reducing the effective of the flame dot outside of wounds inflicted.

(3) ALL dots cause a GREAT DEAL of wounds. The ONLY difference between the flame dot and other dots is that you can see the effects of the flame dot on the ham bar visible on screen. Try this: Have a pistoleer/carbineer/rifleman dot you, and let the dot run its course. Then open your stats screen and look at your secondary stats. You will notice that the health/action/mind dot just caused a huge amount of wounds to you secondary stats. The ONLY difference between commando flames and other dots is that commando wounds affect the visible ham bar, not secondary stats, and this is the ONLY reason people complain.

I personally feel, as do many other commandos, that we are currently balanced...damage, dot, and all.If we are having ourdamage reduced in ANY way, it has to be accompanied by acorresponding reduction in delay on specials or burn times (the time betweenburn damages over time). If the devs are considering reducing our damage,I SERIOUSLY hope that you are having them run actual, in game damage numbers, and making sure that we are not reduced to the same state as before they fixed the flame thrower.

I have played a pre-fix commando, and I REFUSE to go back. Please help us!

Here here!

And as Garvin also mentioned - we want all the little things fixing before any fancy changes that might just got 'considered'.

The improvments to combat classes is being worked on NOW. What is being done for Commando except for a suggested flame nerf?!

I completely agree.

I havemastered many professions since day 2 of this game, and trust me Commando doesn't need to be nerfed. There is an ugly history of people on the boards trying to be "fair" asking for a nerf in exchange for something else and they just end up getting nerfed. I just reached Master Commando and I am already kind of disappointed in only having a +30 accuracy flamethrower. All the other weapons are way too difficult to make. What is the point of spending 30+k on a rocket launcher with 28 charges that isn't even as good as other professions damage and abilities? That sucks.

If you are going to ask for something, ask to get everything else fixed first. Then if it turns out something needs to be scaled back let it happen after the fact. Don't end up getting commando ruined for 2 patches IE 2 MONTHS.

You guys have a good point but you gotta look at what other classes are saying being right or not.

The idea of reducing the flame dot is to try to compromise a little bit in order to hopefully not get us nerfed again. With the damage mod being removed, several people are shouting nerf at us befor its even dropped.

As much as I believe that commandos should be feared on the battle field the devs wont let us be the masters of combat that we should be in perspective of game balance.

And yes, people DO complain about the DOT cause they cant put it out unless they are near water; not easily acomplished.

What you gotta ask yourself is what is more valuable to you? The initial damage, or the DOT. As several of us have said befor, with our other weapons not working the DOT becomes very aluable, but when our other weapons start working, our initial damage will be more important cause we'll have a variety of damage types wwe can do. We're going to take a hit somewhere, might as well try to take it where we'd prefer.

Seriously, do you think they are going to take this damage mod away from us then forget that once apon a time they deemed us overpowered? Heck no. They still think we're overpowered even when we were getting beat up by some of the stupidest things in the game. (See thread "Whats the weakest thing youve been slain by")

The fact is we're not calling on a nerf for ourselves, there is a declared profession rebalancing coming to everyone. We have got to accept that the DEVs intend with every strength there will be a weakness. I think we should do like what they did on the TKA forum and have LordS start a post to see where everyone thinks our strengths and weaknesses should lie.

The idea of reducing the flame dot is to try to compromise a little bit in order to hopefully not get us nerfed again. With the damage mod being removed, several people are shouting nerf at us befor its even dropped.

As much as I believe that commandos should be feared on the battle field the devs wont let us be the masters of combat that we should be in perspective of game balance.

This is ridiculous!!! As I illustrated above the flame dot does not need to be reduced. It is already balanced because our damage is delayed over 10 to 15 seconds. There doesn't need to be any compromise, there needs to be someone to give actual numbers to the devs to show them that we don't need to be nerfed.

My point is that Lord Seckmoth should be crunching actual numbers to show this to the devs, instead of blindly following all the nerfherders that are calling for commando nerfs.

Since you didn't read what I posted, let me try YET AGAIN with another example.A couple of nights agoI was in the imperial base on Naboo hunting Holos with another commando. There was only one other person in the whole place...a teras kasi 4224 (not even a master--I know because he kept bragging to me). In over an hour of hunting, the 2 commandos using flame single 2 and flame cone 2 got 3 (count them THREE) loots from mobs. That means that the taras kasi outdamaged 2 commandos using flamethrowers about 95% of the time.

Commandos ARE NOT in ANY way pvp gods. Our actual damage numbers are well below most other combat classes. We have no status ailment resistances, we are easy to kite, and our only real weapon (lighting people on fire) doesn't even kill the target untill 5 minutes after we are dead. This is in addition to the fact that most other classes get ranged knockdown (including melee classes who get lunge2--20m knockdown) and put us out of commission before we ever get into special range.

I don't know what you are smoking, but it must be good stuff. When I play, I use the flame thrower for the flame dot, and then switch over to pike. As a pikeman I can do almost DOUBLE thedamage I can do merely shooting flame single 2 (and take much less damage because of all the resistances). Sad, huh?

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And yes, people DO complain about the DOT cause they cant put it out unless they are near water; not easily acomplished.

Wrong. Flames can be put out by drinking "flame out" from a chef. Usuable anywhere, at any time, by anyone to put flames out. Our dot is easier to heal than every other dot in the game (which require several heals from an actual medic).

What you gotta ask yourself is what is more valuable to you? The initial damage, or the DOT. As several of us have said befor, with our other weapons not working the DOT becomes very aluable, but when our other weapons start working, our initial damage will be more important cause we'll have a variety of damage types wwe can do. We're going to take a hit somewhere, might as well try to take it where we'd prefer.

The dot...hands down. I can do more damage over time shooting my launcher pistol with health shot 2 and stopping shot than I can with my flame thrower without the flame dot. 300 damage per second is NOT uber, and is barely keeping up with other classes. The dot is the ONLY good thing this class has.

Also, if Lord Seckmoth does his job, and uninformed followers like you stop working against us, we WON'T take the hit anywhere. All it takes is a little education for the devs on our class. They don't play the game, so if we play SOE fanbois and accept any and all proposed without real, objective comment we will all suffer.

Let me also pose the following to you: 2 months ago lots of players were asking for death penalties (a self nerf). There were lots of great ideas posed by players, and posted on the boards. What did we get for asking for a nerf? All of these ideas ignored, and the ONE thing that 99% of players said they didn't want.

Darker, I am the one who posted the fire dot nerf request in which LordS posted.

If you read the thread carefully, you wouldve realized that the 'nerf' is NOT to the fire dot, but at what box the commando receives the full effect of the fire dot that we have now.

In short, you must be MASTER commando to get flame and cone 2 with the fire dot we have now. It is VERY powerful.

And yes, a pistoleer will do the same amount of damage as a commando flame special by the time the flamer timer wears off. But guess what, the pistoleer has to pay in large amounts of HAM to put those 6 to 10 specials in a ROW on a target. We do it in 1 shot. With no ham cost to speak of.We can also do said damage to multiple targets..in 1 shot.

The problem is that the way the commando proffession is set up, its only true weapons are the rocket launcher and the flamethrower. Grenades are pointless to use, as the flamer is a much better choice to use in close range, the same goes for the acid rifle, EVEN if they fixed the broken accuracy and speed mods the flamethrower will still do more damage plus put a dot.

That results in the flamethrower being always the primary damage dealing weapon. The result of THAT is 0.0.4.0 commando dabblers having the same combat efficiency as a master commando. I have the same power now as master than i had with just the grenadeer tree when i was going up the commando trees.

So yes, the flamethrower dot (which is really THE thing the flamer has going for it) has to be nerfed in the grenadeer tree, but not at master title.

"It is already balanced because our damage is delayed over 10 to 15 seconds"

It is NOT delayed. Flamethrower dot ticks at least twice before the timer runs out. The damage is THERE. In fact we have it better off because our dot ticks so quick, other elite combat types bleed attacks must wait around 20 seconds for the bleeds to tick in.

"That means that the taras kasi outdamaged 2 commandos using flamethrowers about 95% of the time."

Wrong. That means the teras kasi was fighting in his proffessions's role: 1-1 melee. Have that tkasi face 2 or more targets at the same time and he is DEAD. A single commando oth, would cone the targets and either move out of the way or go unarmed and tank while the dots kill the targets.

"This is in addition to the fact that most other classes get ranged knockdown (including melee classes who get lunge2--20m knockdown) and put us out of commission before we ever get into special range."

do more research before posting this babble. Only carbineer gets ranged knockdown from the elite ranged proffessions. Only smuggler (non combat class, hybrid) gets the other ranged kd with a gun. And if you're whining because they can knock you onyour arse before you can close in, thenI suppose you think you have the right to be able to literally 1-shot ANYONE in this game. Oh , you not going to cry about thatare you?

Lunge 2 is Master Brawler skill ONLY. Teras Kasi has KD from 5m, Pikeman has KD from 5m. Just like not every single pistoleer/rifleman/carbineer out there is not a master marksman, so is not every melee class out there not a master brawler. And if you haven't noticed, master brawler is a horrible point sink just to get lunge2. If they spend that much, they deserve to have the ability to knock your whining self on the dirt. **edit** are you doing letting a melee class close on you anyway? Even at master level its too risky since the melee classes get good defenses, the chance of a 'miss' with the flamer is very much there. But then again, you think you should be able to rush ANYONE and torch them every single time. The uber boy eh? Moron.

"and uninformed followers like you stop working against us, we WON'T take the hit anywhere"

You just described yourself perfectly.

You know daker, I was trying to just reasonable post back to you. I dont know why you get all jumpy.

Im not going to waste my time on all that crap you just said, so I'll just make a couple quick points.

The TK guy you are talking about. Getting to loot does NOT mean he outdamaged you. Befor you call me uninformed, maybe you should talk like youve had a little experience with commando here lately. He ws probably able to loot cause youre precious DOT doesnt count toward looting rights. And sinced most the FS people Ive seen have high resists to heat, there you go, more evidence that we need or front end damage and other weapons working.

And lastly, Im not talking about our regular FT shot either, duh. Im talking about the initial flamesingle hit befor the dot. I dont know why your comparing the LPto the regular FT shot. I use my flame singles quite quickley at master commando, and my LP does nothing for me asside from beyond 16m range.

And you sir are the one that did not read my entire post. Like I said, a full, and I mean full rebalancing of ALL professions are coming, thats why there are all these posts by TH of what are your top 5 issues, and the state of the profession, and what do you think our profession sould be threads on all sorts of profession boards. We have got to understand where our strengths and weaknesses should be. If we sit back and say our profession is fine where it is we'll just get what they give us and Im sure they wont just leave us alone cause tehy are going to reallign us in perspective of the other classes which all will also be changing.

Oh and one last thing. When I read your post befor you had a signature didnt you? Something to the lines that you were close, I believe but not quite master commando wasnt it 3-4-4-3 or similar? Whyd you drop it? I wouldnt hold it against you that you werent master, I myself did a lot of talking befor I was master. Just wondering where your balls went.

he has no clue what he talking about tech.. it was obvious from the start:

"(1) The flamethrower can do 4k to 5k damage per hit with flame single. HOWEVER, this has a 10 to 15 second delay. This means that we can do, at a maximum, 300 to 500 damage per second. There are TONS of combat classes that also get dots,AND which can do well over 500 damage per second (pistoleer can do over 1000; as a master pikeman, I have done between 3k and 4k damageconsistently every3 seconds). Their damage + their dot> our damage + our dot."

4-5k damage, 10-15 second delay. Thats flamespecial1. his delay obviously put him as not having aboveflamethrower box2. ANDcomparing it to MASTER pikeman (which he obviously wasnt, master pikeman dots are 5-6k. Nor does he know that BLEEDS take around 15 to 20 seconds to start hitting a target, flame dot hits instantly.

Just gets on my nerves hearing anyone say Im working against the commando profession and going to get us nerfed. Thats exactly what Im trying to prevent. Im just trying to keep SOEs so called "balancing" as close to actual balancing as possible instead of overkill.

Sory if I went on a rant.

Darker, I am the one who posted the fire dot nerf request in which LordS posted.

If you read the thread carefully, you wouldve realized that the 'nerf' is NOT to the fire dot, but at what box the commando receives the full effect of the fire dot that we have now.

By the way...this is idiotic...

Experience should tell you by now that devs only half ass listen to anything we say. LordS has posted it almost a dozen threads (not just yours) that he thinks the flame dot is "overpowered." Not "too powerful at the low end." Not "needs to be divided by skillboxes." Simply "it is overpowered."

So what is LordS going to take to the devs? No numbers, no survey of player thoughts,just "the dot is overpowered." LordS will then propose several ideas like yours, the devs will ignore them, and we will be left with an admission that we are "overpowered." The devs will then nerf us beyond all belief, and we will all be screwed. (for support, see what happened with decay).

From you post, another thing is apparent...you don't think flame damage is too high, you just think it should be spread out.You agree with me that flame damage is currently appropriate (at least for somehigh end commandos). So why, exactly, are you supporting LordS telling the devs that we are overpowered? Also what, exactly does your"original" idea do?

Flame Single 1 flamesdo worse damage than Flame Cone 1 Flames. Flame Cone 1 Flames do worse damage thanFlame Single 2 Flames. Flame Single 2 Flames do worse damage than Flame Cone 2 Flames. Your strategy has already been implemented. Maybe not to the extreme you want to take it, but it's there. So...why are we overpowered again?

Look what happened last time these guys were begging the dev's to change our weapons from melee damage. All I would ever see on the boards were posts about how we shouldn't do melee damage, please fix it, ooooh please fix it. These guys got us the 2.5x damage mod, and here they are asking for another big nerf. How stupid could you be?

Master commando on starsider

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Cymene wrote:

Look what happened last time these guys were begging the dev's to change our weapons from melee damage. All I would ever see on the boards were posts about how we shouldn't do melee damage, please fix it, ooooh please fix it. These guys got us the 2.5x damage mod, and here they are asking for another big nerf. How stupid could you be?

Master commando on starsider

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**edit** Cymene, how could I forget about the best example of how devs don't listen to us? GREAT POINT!!!

Last time we asked for a nerf, we said "We shouldn't be doing melee damage...make us ranged." What do we get? A totally unforseen and unwanted EXTRA nerf...the 2.5x penalty. I guess you guys just didn't learn your lesson the first time...