Commando Archive

The real reason we have an issue between masters and dabblers is because no one can seperate commando from flame thrower. Most people don't use the heavy weapons becuase of their expense, the HAR is broken and grenades just suck.

If the other weapons worked properly, we would not have all of these posts about why master commando's should be better then grenedeers with the FT. A 0/0/4/0 commando has as much skill in FT as a master. And that is the way it should be. You don't learn how to aim a FT by tossing grenades. What a master commando should have is an excellent grasp on a HAR that works and a bunch of specially tailored graneds that actually do some damage.

Now, I am not opposed to a Master having some bonuses, but lets face facts, all these posts about how to change the FT are missing the boat completely. We should not be having this debate at all. We should be directing our energy at the developers in hopes that they will give this problem the correct fix.

Bobbi Sox

I agree, and I just dropped master commando, the heavy acid rifle and grenade lines. I'll be dropping the heavy weapons support next.

There needs to be something in commando that isn't all about close range, poor accuracy and long delays hit or miss. Might as well pick what works the best and to heck with the rest.

I hope your kidding, I'm not a commando but the proton nades I make do around 3500 damage and 5 speed. Isnt that a 1 hit kill on almost anything?

I don't have the granade line. Still finishing up heavy weapons. But, most of the posts here that deal with granades are not favorable.

Bobbi Sox

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AlufNull wrote:

If the other weapons worked properly, we would not have all of these posts about why master commando's should be better then grenedeers with the FT. A 0/0/4/0 commando has as much skill in FT as a master. And that is the way it should be. You don't learn how to aim a FT by tossing grenades. What a master commando should have is an excellent grasp on a HAR that works and a bunch of specially tailored graneds that actually do some damage.

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I'm sorry, could youpropose arguements that make sense, please? You're basically saying that while we shouldn't learn how to use a flamer by throwing grenades, we SHOULD learn how to use an acid rifle by throwing grenades.

Mastery of a profession needs some incentive across all 4 of its child trees - when you reach master commando, you should be more proficient with your flamethrower, heavy acid rifle, expendable weaponry, and grenades than you are at each weapon's level 4 tier. The current Master Commando bonuses are not enough to validate the skillpoints wasted on the HAR and Field Tactics trees. If there was a good reason to take each tree, like a working HAR andgrenades that don't suck, then yes, it would be worth one skillpoint to take mastery for the two Cone attacks, but there should still be some other incentive. There should be at least a +10 to general Heavy Weapon Speed and Accuracy, a +10 to Flamer/HAR speed/accuracy, +10 toThrown Weaponspeed/accuracy. That's a bare minimum.

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Tamrael wrote:

I'm sorry, could youpropose arguements that make sense, please? You're basically saying that while we shouldn't learn how to use a flamer by throwing grenades, we SHOULD learn how to use an acid rifle by throwing grenades.

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No, he is saying that a master commando should have 4 working trees in the profession rather than 1 tree that works very well. Then the advantage a master commando would have over the 0040 dabbler is the ability to use three more trees to the same effeciency (+ minor stat bonuses). You actually summed up alot of what the original poster was saying in your own way in your last paragraph.

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Ypsilon wrote:
I hope your kidding, I'm not a commando but the proton nades I make do around 3500 damage and 5 speed. Isnt that a 1 hit kill on almost anything?

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Well that is excellent, and thanks for making those 'nades. The problem lies in the fact that that 3500 damage comes at a huge HAM cost and you are lucky to even hit what you are throwing at.

Someone else wrote about dropping the HW tree and I want to ask why? The HW tree is pretty darned impressive to me, although I do hate the misses!

Ah,bike, you're correct - I misread him. I thought he was saying that mastery should make up for the fact that our other weapons suck rather than saying to stop worrying about FT and fix everything else's current levels. My apologies to the original poster.

Bikebum is right. The incentive for master commando is the ability to use weapons from all 4 trees effectivly. A dabbler can only use weapons from the 1 or 2 trees that they have completed.

The big problem that all the "I hate dabblers" players have is that most of them consider themselves one trick ponies. In some sense they are, but not all the weapons are totally crap. RL and some heavy weapons can be quite effective. I know the HAR is busted and most of the other weapons need some tweaking and fixing, and the FT works. (hence all the the players who have picked up the FT)

The point is, you shouldn't be angry at the dabblers but rather concentrate your focus on getting the other trees and weapons fixed. Once you can use a HAR effectivly and the dabbler can't you will see the advantages of being a master by being able to use any of the commando weapons.

Either way, there still needs to be SOME bonus to mastery. A master commando should be a little bit better with a flamethrower than a Flamer 4 Commando - If they want it to be a hollow title like it is now, they should remove the skillpoint and XP cost from it completely.

The reason a Master Commando should be better with a flamethrower then a grenadeer is because he's spent 4 times longer mastering the general HEAVY WEAPONS experience (this is why its not called flamethrower experience) As a master a commando REFINES all his techniques, and becomes a better warrior. He learns nothing new about a flamethrower from tossing grenades but he refines and maximizes his efficiency with all his weapons. Bruce Lee created his own martial arts after he beat the **edit** outta 4 guys in a bar in 10 seconds (not clear on the time it took), decideing he didn't do it fast enough, he took all his knowledge and completely revamped it, optimizeing every move down to the last detail. He learned nothing from his old skills. He refined them, optimized them, made them faster, stronger, better. Thats what being a master means. You take all of your knowledge, and you personalize it to your own tastes. Every single martial artist has a "fingerprint" of a sort, their unique style of how they fight. Teach 2 people the same art from the same master in the same time and at the same pace and they will be diffrent. A skilled fighter can even tell the diffrence between 2 styles while blinded to the identity of his attackers. MASTER is more then just "I know alot about alot of weapons" its "I know alot and have mastered my techniques WITH all of my weapons".

I stated in my original post that I am not opposed to master level commandos having bonuses. I started this thread to point out the reason we have numerous posts on this board with silly suggestions like "FT certification should be moved to master" and the like is becuase as a profession, we have tunnel vision where the FT is concerned. And the reason we do, is that the other weapons we have access to are not worth the effort for most people. This needs to change.

I am trying to get people to see the real issue. There is not a problem with people that want to be 0/0/4/0 commandos. The problem is that our other weapons dont work the way they should so we end up feeling cheated.

Therefore, it should be obvious that the answer is not to shaft people that want the flamethrower, but make the other weapons mean somthing.

Jeren_Sehn

I agree that the Heavy Weapons line isn't that bad, but i just can't see going through life on this game wiht my only truely ranged alternative costing me upwards of 2-5K a shot.

Also with most players getting up to par with bufs, spices and food to increase HAM, those big hits just aren't all their made out to be with consideration for the long delays in between. Its too much of a dice roll imo.

Commando rolls dice, err throws grenade, shots acid beam...etc. Commando rolls snake eyes, err I mean misses, commando dies...ect. With such long delays there is little to offer in terms of tactices since a commando can't do jack squat after they hit or miss, and wtih the increased numbers of players getting buffed one way or another, even a hit is by no means a sure means to victory.

BTW, ever tried shooting a Tera Kasi master, geez, its like trying to shoot flies out of the air with a b-b gun, miss, miss, miss, ..........ect. Just kidding, no way you'll get to shoot at a tera kasi more than twice, commando dies after first miss. I didn't catch one offguard once and got in 2 shots, missed both times with FT, then I died...lol.

Commando is truely a support role in this game. Its not a solo gig by any means unless we just picked on low ham players and mobs.

I'm going to be a dabbler, I think creating a character that is unlike all others is more fun than just masting a number of things then throwing what's left over into medical. We'll see how this turns out, then maybe I'll come back to master commando some day. I might even keep the HW support line in whcih case I could probably come back to master commando within a few days after maxing out my saved up HWs XP