Commando Archive
Thread: Commando Profession Top Issues List Updated for September 14th
Page 1 of 4
StarNick
Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:56 pm
#1
Commando Issue 1: The inability to produce damage within our own profession
Problem: We cannot produce comparable damage in regards to non-damage dealer professions, this is a contradiction of our role as a damage dealer. With marksman specials, our damage output is no better than using an AoE Special which are generally weaker compared to pure damage specials (such as Improved Legshot or Bodyshot).
● There is a large “power gap” between melee and ranged templates
● Ranged Templates: We’re fine most of the time, and damage is how it should be because we have elite specials.
● Melee Templates/Crafter Templates: We do not have elite specials, and hence rely on marksman specials. As a result, our damage is subpar compared to that of other ranged professions, many of whom have not only AoE attacks like us, but also pure damage attacks that are better than what we can produce. AoE nor innate states make up for this, especially since our entire profession revolves around AoE. There is no flexibility in this instance, especially against single targets.
Solution: Allow us to perform the role of a damage dealer in any type of template. We need to have comparable ways to activate our damage like other professions do, since if that is tied into our weapons...we would become overpowered when using elite specials. Hence it must be external in either a damage special or consumable. We also need a balance between front-loaded and Area damage weapons to further achieve this and move away from a sole AoE profession.
● We need Damage Specials that allow us to reach our damage potential (Most Preferred)
○ State Attacks/AoE will be built in utility (as is)
○ Will allow current non-AoE weapons to produce front-loaded damage (new, will add diversity and help realize our damage dealing role)
○ Will allow current AoE weapons to produce a deadly spray effect (as is with limited AoE for balance - if these can be balanced right now with limited AoE, can't it be if we had a special of our own too?)
● And/or give consumables (grenades, or re-addition of consumable Heavy Weapons) a considerable boost so we have hard-hitting front loaded attacks & AoE that balances with our normal weapons. This can be supplemented with the above.
Commando Issue 2: Broken AOE
Problem: Area damage on all Heavy Weapons that have it, produce “Elemental + 1" for splash damage.
● This is a huge problem that helps explain why we’re not damage dealers. Although if fixed, it won’t solve all of our problems, but it will be a huge step in the right direction.
● When it was working, it was “limited” AoE where all our weapons save the Lightning Beam Cannon had only 40% damage of their initial attack, in splash damage. If this is how our AoE should work, we have the weakest area damage in the game despite it being built around our entire profession.
Solution: Fix AoE and bring it up to that of AoE specials (full splash damage).
Commando Issue 3: Lack of diversity in our weapons
Problem: Master Commandos have few worthwhile utilities and Kinetic weaponry at a Master Level damage rating.
● All our CL54/CL50 weapons/grenades have AoE and Fire DoTs.
● Our only Kinetic weaponry are Cl22 and CL14 which are the Rocket Launcher and Launcher pistol respectively.
Solution: Diversify our weapons.
● Give Master Commandos Advanced Versions of lower level weaponry (ie Rocket Launcher) so the preservation of damage, while producing a state effect can be achieved.
○ This includes the addition of a Master-level kinetic weapon (ie Rocket Launcher again)
● Since our weapons define us, give more variety in our arsenal. Include both front-loaded and area weapons to move us away from an “AoE profession” status. Also increase the effectiveness of our states/built in abilities. This will improve our flexibility as well.
● Bringing lower combat level weapons to a master level will also open the door for more use with our elemental damage, raising its effectiveness. Right now, low level weapons have high elemental but that does not make up for the differences in damage levels. This will give commandos more of an edge in the damage department if we can have some Master-level weapons that have good elemental damages.
○ This would help out weapons that do not have innate abilities (ie Proton Rifle), and allow our non-AoE weapons serve as front-loaded weapons (because of the higher elemental damage).
● Diversify our built-in utilites. The majority of our high level Heavy Weapons all have AoE and fire DoTs. Other than that, we only have a Knockdown, Blind, and a small Snare on the Cyroban grenade. Remove redundant built-in utilities, and give all of our weapons a unique role to play in our arsenal with more exotic or damaging effects.
Commando Issue 4: Grenades
Problem: Grenades have little use to many commandos out there and are worse than they were Pre-Combat Upgrade.
● They still come in stacks of 5 despite the profession being promised that the stack size would be raised
● They’re hard to craft and very time consuming (factory time can stretch into days for a few crates), hence they’re expensive to make for a consumable that is used up in a very short while.
● Grenades only produce significant damage when you equip a weapon (if you don’t, the damage drops to around 100 damage points...even if your max damage on a grenade is 800)
● State Effects are weak or on small timers (ie Snare generally lasts for 3 seconds...sometimes states don’t always stick)
● The timers further make Grenades undesirable.
○ It has been estimated that the base timer per grenade throw is 18 seconds.
○ Between grenade throws of the same grenade, can be between 18 and 45 seconds. (Ie Cyroban, that produces the snare is on an 18-25 second throw timer...when states don’t stick or last a short while with high timers, it is often easier and more efficient using normal weapons)
● The AoE on grenades start at the thrower’s feet, not where the grenade gets thrown.
Solution: Improve grenades with the following:
● Increase Stack Sizes
● Streamline Component, Factory Time, and Resources in grenade production to make them more economically efficient to produce and in greater quantities than before - they're disposable, not golden nuggets.
● Fix the AoE at your feet and grenade damage bugs.
● Remove timers
● Improve state effects on grenades/Improve Damage in a balanced fashion
Commando Issue 5: Power-ups and Cybernetic Arms
Problem: Heavy Weapons still under the “Special Heavy Weapon” catagory (Plasma Flamethrowers, Flamethrowers, and Heavy Acid Rifles) do not benefit from power-ups or Cybernetic Arms that increase range.
● Pre-Combat Upgrade our weapons didn’t take power-ups because we had specials with such large damage modifiers. Now our weapons function like normal weapons, and all our pre-CU consumables turned non-consumable all take power-ups like normal weapons.
Solution: Set all Heavy Weapons to a unified “Heavy Weapon” category and allow all of them to be able to be power-upped or have their ranges extended.
Commando Issue 6: The Proton Rifle
Problem: The Proton Rifle is a random loot item off of NK-Necrosis, and the only long-ranged/non-AoE weapon available to the Commando Profession. Compared to other rifles, it generally has very high SAC costs (106-122 compared to 100 SAC for other Necrosis rifles) and is difficult in obtaining.
● Old Proton Rifles that were not affected by the patch that fixed the Rifle’s misfire bug, are still either not firing or producing an AoE.
● Proton Rifles do not have built-in abilities whatsoever, these weapons could benefit greatly by having elemental damage and help serve as a front-loaded, non-AoE Heavy Weapon.
Solution: Make the Proton Rifle easier to obtain (ie other Necrosis loot, or Proton Carbine...by better loot drops or a quest item), and reduce the SAC on newly looted Proton Rifles to the Heavy Weapon SAC cap of 100. Also, fix (if possible) older Proton Rifles that were not affected by the Publish 18 bug fix. Lastly, if at all possible...let the Proton Rifle have elemental damage to reflect its Heavy Weapon nature.
Commando Issue 7: The Crafting of Heavy Weapons
Problem: Rocket Launchers, a CL22 weapon, is the hardest weapon to craft in the game. Other weapons, such as the Heavy Acid Rifle (Cl22) take as many components as a Plasma Flamethrower (CL54). All our weapons, in their schematics, are nearly the same in resources/components, but they are not the same when it comes to power levels.
● Rocket Launchers require far more than traditional CL54 weaponry, and hence its resources/component requirement is not justified
Solution: Reduce the resource/component requirements for lower level Heavy Weapons. Allow the resources to reflect on the weapon that is being produced.
Commando Issue 8: The Melee Component of Commando
Problem: Given the amount of Melee we need to invest into the profession (29 skill points or 24% of commando's overall skill cost), there is barely anything useful stemming from that melee component. It is underused, inefficient, and there is no purpose for going melee as we need ranged professions to supply us with more damaging specials.
Solution: Give commando melee specials, or a “Bash” attack that could induce stunning and can be used with a Heavy Weapon. Or possibly allow Center of Being, work with Heavy Weapons to reflect our melee component.
Commando Issue 9: Heavy Weapons and Area Specials
Problem: Currently if a commando uses an AoE special (ie Fanshot, Full Auto Single) with a Heavy Weapon that produces an AoE effect, our limited AoE will override the specials' 100% AoE.
Solution: Allow Heavy Weapons to produce a full AoE effect while using an AoE special, and for our limited AoE to be overridden by said special.
Commando Issue 10: Sniper Shot and the Plasma Flame thrower
Problem: With the new minimum range for Rifleman Sniper Shot set at 20m, the Plasma Flame Thrower has a 5m "window" in which this highly damaging special can be used with the most powerful commando weapon. This restricts the use of a Rifleman-Commando pairing.
● Is this intended to bar the union of "the most damaging special and most damaging AoE in the game" with the “most powerful special in the game”?
Problem: We cannot produce comparable damage in regards to non-damage dealer professions, this is a contradiction of our role as a damage dealer. With marksman specials, our damage output is no better than using an AoE Special which are generally weaker compared to pure damage specials (such as Improved Legshot or Bodyshot).
● There is a large “power gap” between melee and ranged templates
● Ranged Templates: We’re fine most of the time, and damage is how it should be because we have elite specials.
● Melee Templates/Crafter Templates: We do not have elite specials, and hence rely on marksman specials. As a result, our damage is subpar compared to that of other ranged professions, many of whom have not only AoE attacks like us, but also pure damage attacks that are better than what we can produce. AoE nor innate states make up for this, especially since our entire profession revolves around AoE. There is no flexibility in this instance, especially against single targets.
Solution: Allow us to perform the role of a damage dealer in any type of template. We need to have comparable ways to activate our damage like other professions do, since if that is tied into our weapons...we would become overpowered when using elite specials. Hence it must be external in either a damage special or consumable. We also need a balance between front-loaded and Area damage weapons to further achieve this and move away from a sole AoE profession.
● We need Damage Specials that allow us to reach our damage potential (Most Preferred)
○ State Attacks/AoE will be built in utility (as is)
○ Will allow current non-AoE weapons to produce front-loaded damage (new, will add diversity and help realize our damage dealing role)
○ Will allow current AoE weapons to produce a deadly spray effect (as is with limited AoE for balance - if these can be balanced right now with limited AoE, can't it be if we had a special of our own too?)
● And/or give consumables (grenades, or re-addition of consumable Heavy Weapons) a considerable boost so we have hard-hitting front loaded attacks & AoE that balances with our normal weapons. This can be supplemented with the above.
Commando Issue 2: Broken AOE
Problem: Area damage on all Heavy Weapons that have it, produce “Elemental + 1" for splash damage.
● This is a huge problem that helps explain why we’re not damage dealers. Although if fixed, it won’t solve all of our problems, but it will be a huge step in the right direction.
● When it was working, it was “limited” AoE where all our weapons save the Lightning Beam Cannon had only 40% damage of their initial attack, in splash damage. If this is how our AoE should work, we have the weakest area damage in the game despite it being built around our entire profession.
Solution: Fix AoE and bring it up to that of AoE specials (full splash damage).
Commando Issue 3: Lack of diversity in our weapons
Problem: Master Commandos have few worthwhile utilities and Kinetic weaponry at a Master Level damage rating.
● All our CL54/CL50 weapons/grenades have AoE and Fire DoTs.
● Our only Kinetic weaponry are Cl22 and CL14 which are the Rocket Launcher and Launcher pistol respectively.
Solution: Diversify our weapons.
● Give Master Commandos Advanced Versions of lower level weaponry (ie Rocket Launcher) so the preservation of damage, while producing a state effect can be achieved.
○ This includes the addition of a Master-level kinetic weapon (ie Rocket Launcher again)
● Since our weapons define us, give more variety in our arsenal. Include both front-loaded and area weapons to move us away from an “AoE profession” status. Also increase the effectiveness of our states/built in abilities. This will improve our flexibility as well.
● Bringing lower combat level weapons to a master level will also open the door for more use with our elemental damage, raising its effectiveness. Right now, low level weapons have high elemental but that does not make up for the differences in damage levels. This will give commandos more of an edge in the damage department if we can have some Master-level weapons that have good elemental damages.
○ This would help out weapons that do not have innate abilities (ie Proton Rifle), and allow our non-AoE weapons serve as front-loaded weapons (because of the higher elemental damage).
● Diversify our built-in utilites. The majority of our high level Heavy Weapons all have AoE and fire DoTs. Other than that, we only have a Knockdown, Blind, and a small Snare on the Cyroban grenade. Remove redundant built-in utilities, and give all of our weapons a unique role to play in our arsenal with more exotic or damaging effects.
Commando Issue 4: Grenades
Problem: Grenades have little use to many commandos out there and are worse than they were Pre-Combat Upgrade.
● They still come in stacks of 5 despite the profession being promised that the stack size would be raised
● They’re hard to craft and very time consuming (factory time can stretch into days for a few crates), hence they’re expensive to make for a consumable that is used up in a very short while.
● Grenades only produce significant damage when you equip a weapon (if you don’t, the damage drops to around 100 damage points...even if your max damage on a grenade is 800)
● State Effects are weak or on small timers (ie Snare generally lasts for 3 seconds...sometimes states don’t always stick)
● The timers further make Grenades undesirable.
○ It has been estimated that the base timer per grenade throw is 18 seconds.
○ Between grenade throws of the same grenade, can be between 18 and 45 seconds. (Ie Cyroban, that produces the snare is on an 18-25 second throw timer...when states don’t stick or last a short while with high timers, it is often easier and more efficient using normal weapons)
● The AoE on grenades start at the thrower’s feet, not where the grenade gets thrown.
Solution: Improve grenades with the following:
● Increase Stack Sizes
● Streamline Component, Factory Time, and Resources in grenade production to make them more economically efficient to produce and in greater quantities than before - they're disposable, not golden nuggets.
● Fix the AoE at your feet and grenade damage bugs.
● Remove timers
● Improve state effects on grenades/Improve Damage in a balanced fashion
Commando Issue 5: Power-ups and Cybernetic Arms
Problem: Heavy Weapons still under the “Special Heavy Weapon” catagory (Plasma Flamethrowers, Flamethrowers, and Heavy Acid Rifles) do not benefit from power-ups or Cybernetic Arms that increase range.
● Pre-Combat Upgrade our weapons didn’t take power-ups because we had specials with such large damage modifiers. Now our weapons function like normal weapons, and all our pre-CU consumables turned non-consumable all take power-ups like normal weapons.
Solution: Set all Heavy Weapons to a unified “Heavy Weapon” category and allow all of them to be able to be power-upped or have their ranges extended.
Commando Issue 6: The Proton Rifle
Problem: The Proton Rifle is a random loot item off of NK-Necrosis, and the only long-ranged/non-AoE weapon available to the Commando Profession. Compared to other rifles, it generally has very high SAC costs (106-122 compared to 100 SAC for other Necrosis rifles) and is difficult in obtaining.
● Old Proton Rifles that were not affected by the patch that fixed the Rifle’s misfire bug, are still either not firing or producing an AoE.
● Proton Rifles do not have built-in abilities whatsoever, these weapons could benefit greatly by having elemental damage and help serve as a front-loaded, non-AoE Heavy Weapon.
Solution: Make the Proton Rifle easier to obtain (ie other Necrosis loot, or Proton Carbine...by better loot drops or a quest item), and reduce the SAC on newly looted Proton Rifles to the Heavy Weapon SAC cap of 100. Also, fix (if possible) older Proton Rifles that were not affected by the Publish 18 bug fix. Lastly, if at all possible...let the Proton Rifle have elemental damage to reflect its Heavy Weapon nature.
Commando Issue 7: The Crafting of Heavy Weapons
Problem: Rocket Launchers, a CL22 weapon, is the hardest weapon to craft in the game. Other weapons, such as the Heavy Acid Rifle (Cl22) take as many components as a Plasma Flamethrower (CL54). All our weapons, in their schematics, are nearly the same in resources/components, but they are not the same when it comes to power levels.
● Rocket Launchers require far more than traditional CL54 weaponry, and hence its resources/component requirement is not justified
Solution: Reduce the resource/component requirements for lower level Heavy Weapons. Allow the resources to reflect on the weapon that is being produced.
Commando Issue 8: The Melee Component of Commando
Problem: Given the amount of Melee we need to invest into the profession (29 skill points or 24% of commando's overall skill cost), there is barely anything useful stemming from that melee component. It is underused, inefficient, and there is no purpose for going melee as we need ranged professions to supply us with more damaging specials.
Solution: Give commando melee specials, or a “Bash” attack that could induce stunning and can be used with a Heavy Weapon. Or possibly allow Center of Being, work with Heavy Weapons to reflect our melee component.
Commando Issue 9: Heavy Weapons and Area Specials
Problem: Currently if a commando uses an AoE special (ie Fanshot, Full Auto Single) with a Heavy Weapon that produces an AoE effect, our limited AoE will override the specials' 100% AoE.
Solution: Allow Heavy Weapons to produce a full AoE effect while using an AoE special, and for our limited AoE to be overridden by said special.
Commando Issue 10: Sniper Shot and the Plasma Flame thrower
Problem: With the new minimum range for Rifleman Sniper Shot set at 20m, the Plasma Flame Thrower has a 5m "window" in which this highly damaging special can be used with the most powerful commando weapon. This restricts the use of a Rifleman-Commando pairing.
● Is this intended to bar the union of "the most damaging special and most damaging AoE in the game" with the “most powerful special in the game”?
Message Edited by StarNick on 09-24-2005 04:45 PM
Message Edited by StarNick on 10-01-2005 01:29 PM
StarNick
Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:57 pm
#2
Revised it a bit, also put it in a better format that is a tad more concise and clear.
Did I leave anything out?
Edit: Also, Im doing some fall cleaning on the stickies...expect the new guide to be up within the week (I hope) as well as possibly a refurbished sticky or two...or whatever else comes up.
Did I leave anything out?
Edit: Also, Im doing some fall cleaning on the stickies...expect the new guide to be up within the week (I hope) as well as possibly a refurbished sticky or two...or whatever else comes up.
Message Edited by StarNick on 09-15-2005 12:00 AM
blacke
Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:26 am
#3
Nice work Starnick.
I do have one question about grenades. Is the cooldown fixed so that not every other ability gets the same cooldown as grenades when they are thrown? It was like this last time I played my commando, about 3 month ago.
I do have one question about grenades. Is the cooldown fixed so that not every other ability gets the same cooldown as grenades when they are thrown? It was like this last time I played my commando, about 3 month ago.
nbd9k
Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:58 am
#4
on number nine, i think they already announced that the whole point of the minimum distance was to restrict the use of snipershot with other, more powerful weaponry.
our big problem lies in that we're a ranged profession forced to fight within melee range with no melee defences. a shift in this system might produce better results as well as our other problems.
also, i still get that annoying acid splashback on the acid rifle (or was it the launcher) every damn time i shoot a target with it, since the target "warps" to close the distance on me. so basicly every time i shoot it i blind myself. i think that should be on there somewhere.
armord1
Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:10 am
#5
Commando has been broken for as long as i can remember.. Although i my self am not a commando ( yeah i snoop around occasionaly 
) It is rather a waste of skill points as it stands.. Come on now, give them a Tank or attack vehicles! lol
) It is rather a waste of skill points as it stands.. Come on now, give them a Tank or attack vehicles! lol
Samun
Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:19 am
#6
armord1 wrote:
Commando has been broken for as long as i can remember.. Although i my self am not a commando ( yeah i snoop around occasionaly
*chuckle* Here comes the tank thread again...
btw, howdy Armord. 
[ PHO | Kauri ]
Samun
Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:32 am
#8
armord1 wrote:
/wave rasth
here be teh commando king
LOL
What can I say, I like my Rebels extra crispy.
Latenighter
Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:47 am
#9
On number 8, the "or" for being able to use COB should be an "and". We earned the skill. We should be permitted to use the skill with our profession specific equipped heavy weapon. If that suggests that smugglers (who also are required to have Unarmed) would get the ability to use this skill with equipped SMUGGLER weapons (profession certed weapons only), then so be it. They earned it too. Keeping it restricted to profession specific weapons will avoid the use of COB with Carbines, most pistols, and rifles, which is probably the area of concern for the devs.
I think the other option of "Remove the brawler/unarmed requirement" should be suggested with the requirement for any one ranged marksman tree (rifle, carbine, pistol). Heck, they could require TWO marksman ranged trees and we would still have an extra skill point! Carbines and Pistols seem sensible. The end product of doing this is a lot more flexibility in ranged template designs for Commando, since we are truly pigeonholed into a ranged template to achieve our design objective.
I think the other option of "Remove the brawler/unarmed requirement" should be suggested with the requirement for any one ranged marksman tree (rifle, carbine, pistol). Heck, they could require TWO marksman ranged trees and we would still have an extra skill point! Carbines and Pistols seem sensible. The end product of doing this is a lot more flexibility in ranged template designs for Commando, since we are truly pigeonholed into a ranged template to achieve our design objective.
Ajo79
Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:16 am
#10
Good work as always StarNick. Realy good list.
Now if we just could get the Devs to listen.
Devs, over here! Over here! *desperate calls for help*
armord1
Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:09 am
#11
*looks at the Jedi forums* hmm, Devs are all over them.
*points rocket launcher to the sky* Maybe this will get their attention.. *pulls trigger*
razorwind0
Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:35 am
#12
I would like to add that something needs to be done about our SAC to damage ratio. As it stand other professions are able to do more damage for longer periods of time be cause of their lower sac cap and at longer ranges. If our sac cap is to remain at 100 then our damage needs to be GREATLY increased or our sac needs to be brought inline with other weapon types like rifles or carbines. Personally I think pre-cu commando was closer to what a commando whould be. We had in-profession specials that alowed us to be damage dealers against single or multiple targets and relably stick a powerful DOT at the same time and these were balanced with have a max range of 16m (think it should be 20m) while if we used anyother special with the weapon we were unable to place a DOT and had full range. The powerfulin-profession specials were also balanced sincedwe had to get close to the target to use them which can be difficult against another ranged fighter and but us at risk when fighting a melee combatant. The heavy weapons were also much better, they could be incredibly powerful (had a RL that hit for 16k once against a red coned rancor bull) but those were also incredibly expensive (the RL I mentioned cost me 500k and only had 15 shots, cost 33.3k per shot) and the limited number of shots meant that these would be saved for special situations when you really needed to pack punch and they didn't last all that long. The long animation of kneeling, pulling it out, shooting, putting it away, and standing back up also helped balance out the damage potential. Changing the weapons and specials back to pre-cu will fix almost every problem we have when paired with the post-cu increase of our accuracy, speed, defences, and inate states of our weapons (states as a whole need some work though since they are almost useless). Combine this with StarNicks suggestions for grenades and unarmed and commando will be a much better profession.
Message Edited by razorwind0 on 09-15-2005 12:37 PM
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