Commando Archive
Thread: Commandos should not nor ever be a supporting class
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Kalano
Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:25 pm
#1
With 168 points used to become a Commando, i will include BH and CM in this since they also use as many points, that these proffesions should be the Main proffesion. I am not saying at all the other proffesions should be supporting class at all. Well, expect CH and SL, they are a support type of class.
I see Commandos picking up another Mastery as more of a specialization of a commando. Such as if you picked up master rifleman, the commando should have rifleman specials apply to the commando, make more rifle types or change the AR (also make it competitive) to a rifle. That commando would do more sniping and ranged attacks, ie: his specialization. I see a possible future as a possible artillery men taking out turrets.
Pick up carbineer. That commando would be better for crowd control. Be really good for base raids, both attack and defence on the outside. Now, we do needa commando carbine weapon. I see possible future of bunker babies with E-webs and other repeating blasters that have AoE.
Pick up pistolleer. That commando would be the best inside of bunkers, taking out rooms of enemies. LP would be the blasting away the enemy with high speed. I see possible future of being bunker busters, first ones in laying waste preparing the way for the rest to infiltrate.
Pick up TKA. Sinceunarmed is a prerequisite, we needed it to apply more for us. That commando would be more of the infiltrator, sneaking into the enemy buildings and camps taking out commandors and high ranking personel. I see them using specails like Neck snap, sneak up behind a guy and bam. Down they go with a limp body. Need some commando type of VK's. Maybe one that will incapacity an NPC for a given time peroid, not killing but a type of incap that doesn't cause damage. I see a possible future of being the silent ninjas, carefull killers and espionage.
For the specail weapons, they should be still the same for all commandos. Commandos are suppose to be able to adapt quickly to different situations but some commandos will be better adapted for the fact they are specialized in other pros. I see a hugh army of Commandos doing different jobs just like real soldiers in the militaries today.U.S. Marines are soldiers first, then whatever the core deciedes second. Just the same way commandos should be. Commandos first, rifleman, pistolleer, carbineer, or brawler second.
This is how i see Commandos should be. The other proffesions should enhance it, not detrack it. I am not saying the other combat proffesions should be weak, heck now. I still think rifleman should snip, carbineers should have full auto weapons, possible shotguns,i personally would see that as a cool toy, and pistollers should be duel weilding and doing trick shots to totally make an enemy unable to fight back while getting beaten to a bloody pulp. And for meele, well, i only have expereance as a unarmed brawler so i can't say to much there. Hmmm.....they should all have there bonus and specials that don't fully transfer to commando weapons or play style so they don't become second rated and the whole game is commando wars.
I say, make commandos mean something special, a badge of honor and a reward in its self when accomplished.
On a final side note.
These things could work in other ways for BH and CM. I think CM's should have a lot more healing powers to counter balance themselvesrather than Docs having all the cures. Doesn't seem right to me seeing a doc healing everyone on a battle field while a CM is there, only able to hurt. I think the Devs need to rethink that one a bit. Why not call them combat poisoners instead of medic.
StarNick
Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:52 pm
#2
168
169!!!!!!! Didnt read far enough till I hada post a reply!!!
Ok...read it, splendid...also an interesting take on our profession.
I can easily use a visual example for this....
C&C Red Alert 2....the IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle)....in its regular form, its an anti-infantry and anti-light armour missile vehicle.....drop an infantry unit....it becomes a machine gun....drop a chrono legionaire....it becomes a chrono tank....drop in an engineer...it becomes a mobile repair platform....drop in a Crazy Ivan....it becomes a suicide explosion tank...
Point is...the IFV is a good balanced vehicle in its regular form...but its so versititle that whatever you pair it with, it becomes better. In the sense you can drop and pick up many skills but retain the vehicle...as well as equip it for specialized use (like if you need to mow down all the infantry, get infantrymen in them...etc) while being on-demand...
In a way....you're right, thats how commando should be....we're the culmination of the3 ranged elites (the hvy weapons) but our other weapons are combined (in the profession i mean) which in theory should allow us to be as versitile as the IFV. We serve as a base - a powerful base - that can get better, or be better equiped in certain scenarios....hence taking up our pre-req specializations.
Unfortunately thats all fine and dandy...but the Elite specializations do not offer enough defenses to compensate the amount of SP required to master 169 SP hybrid and a 63 SP elite....it'll be just slightly better than a 92 SP mastered elite. Meanwhile a TKM could master Rifleman for less SP for us to master 2 elite/hybrid professions as well have even more SP to master OR dabble....as well, only ONE commando weapon even uses elite specialization skills! ONE of 4!! We ONLY use 25% of our entire pre-req skills...how SAD is that! (BH on the other hand uses 75% of its pre-reqs...only rifles doesnt use, also CM uses all of its pre-reqs...but just needs to be tweaked in their profession)
I like your idea alot....as I think all along we all agreed on this idea. Commando by itself should have the same defenses or more of any elite profession as well as its own specialization. BUT as a bonus to the 169 SP we spend...we not only get better weapons, but better specials (more commandoy...out own touch) to the pre-req disciplines.....and we have a choice to become BETTER than the elite professions (ranged, not the TKA however...TKA we'll be able to combine both...as the ninja heh)....rather than SAME as the elite profession, BUT at a far disadavantage (as we are now...or heck, even worse than a mastered elite ranged....as only Pistoleer benefits directly)
Giving commando 2 things:
1) The same defenses as other elites
2) The Hybrid Bonus of being a Base to get even BETTER if we choose to go into a specialization (New Weapons, new Specials - all pertaining to Commando's "suppoused purpose" of Hvy Weapons/Demolitions)
So here would be the new set of advantages/disadvantages:
Advantages:
1) Better weapons/Better Damage (as a result)
2) Hybrid Bonus - Ability of specializing from our pre-reqs while giving them the touch of our speciality
Disadvantages:
1) SP Costs
2) Slow Delays on Hvy Weapons
This is of course if the Devs give us better accuracy....if they also give us better delays, then they can give us defense disadvantages (such as lack of special defenses)...OR make it where the only true disadvantage is our SP costs....giving us hybrids 2 bonuses....and a purpose to master and be one.
Message Edited by StarNick on 08-19-2004 09:15 PM
Kyodor
Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:10 pm
#3
So true. One thing I never understoodis the horrible range on Commando weapons, yet if they get in that range, they'll get battered into the ground by Melee professions. Not being able to go on the front lines in fear of being decimated by melee definetely puts it on the back seat as a "support class".
With the unarmed should come some considerable hand - to - hand combat defence. It would make sense to have a Unarmed tree in Commando for this, with some melee defence and Defence vs KD/Dizzy/Stun/Blind/etc, so Commando can have a chance at point blank.
Add in some better range on the Commando weapons, fix the HAR, and perhaps Commando will be able to actually do something. Also, Assault Rifles? That sounds great, the key word that makes it a possible solution to fixing Commando.
Dictionary definition:
Commando - noun. (plural Commandos) 1. a soldier trained for carrying out raids.
Carrying out raids, not supporting them.
With the unarmed should come some considerable hand - to - hand combat defence. It would make sense to have a Unarmed tree in Commando for this, with some melee defence and Defence vs KD/Dizzy/Stun/Blind/etc, so Commando can have a chance at point blank.
Add in some better range on the Commando weapons, fix the HAR, and perhaps Commando will be able to actually do something. Also, Assault Rifles? That sounds great, the key word that makes it a possible solution to fixing Commando.
Dictionary definition:
Commando - noun. (plural Commandos) 1. a soldier trained for carrying out raids.
Carrying out raids, not supporting them.
StarNick
Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:18 pm
#4
With the unarmed should come some considerable hand - to - hand combat defence. It would make sense to have a Unarmed tree in Commando for this, with some melee defence and Defence vs KD/Dizzy/Stun/Blind/etc, so Commando can have a chance at point blank.
Or better yet...the defenses as well as melee specials for our Special weapons.....
Raptor2k1
Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:50 pm
#5
Nice idea. 
I've been advocating that style of complimentary professions since they days of my old revamp posts, and I always thought it'd be cool to see commando being used as a base elite profession for future specializations in things like Pistoleer, Carbineer, TKA, or Rifleman (I had a HSW specialization too in my idea, but it involved building another class from scratch.)
I've been advocating that style of complimentary professions since they days of my old revamp posts, and I always thought it'd be cool to see commando being used as a base elite profession for future specializations in things like Pistoleer, Carbineer, TKA, or Rifleman (I had a HSW specialization too in my idea, but it involved building another class from scratch.)By the way, the title is right on! 
(Edit: Here's a link to the thread if anyone's interested in seeing the details ofwhat I wrote up for reference and/or future ideas.)
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=44222&highlight=elite#M44222
Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 08-20-2004 03:54 PM
Kalano
Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:23 am
#6
I know this is pretty much a pipe dream but I honestly think it would turn the game around. Yes commandos definatly the same defenses to work
BH and Commandos really make the up the sum of the story told by Lucas, yes, there is more to starwars than the movies, a hell of a lot more. But these two professions need a boost in the arm that makes them what they true should be. BH should be the stand alone killer in PvE and PvP but never good against multi-enemy. They should be constructed to be opportunits. Commandos need to be the awsome hitters who takemajor dent out of groups of enemies both PvE and PvP. They should be adaptable to changing situations. Always there to make the difference in a battle to sway.
I hope the devs do see what we as commandos and players see what are roles are in the game. We don't want to dominate then bea single profession game, just a worth the sweat, blood, tears, and points for the benifits given, which right now are not worth the sweat, blood, tears, and points.
Kalano
Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:54 am
#7
Raptor2k1 wrote:
Nice idea.
By the way, the title is right on!
Thanks Raptor. I hope the devs see it and take the title statement to heart. But i fear it won't. 
I hope the devs see it and take the title statement to heart. But i fear it won't.
nbd9k
Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:36 pm
#8
The thought is absolutely wonderful, but the politics of implementing it all is where we take our dive. this kind of systematic upset would shake alot of other peoples core professions. granted, they spent less points to get to their's, but nobody wants to be told that their work isnt valid after they spent two days macroing rifleman. -cough-
an overhaul of the entire skillset across the board would do the game a great deal of good, but those happy professions would replace us as the guys on the forums complaining about their profession. have you wandered into the BH forum lately? they complain that they dont have enough power to kill jedi. well the jedi arent complaining. if its easy to kill stuff, why complain?
i would love nothing more than to see our profession be all that it can be. unfortunately, im beginning to think that we may be the little dog everyone keeps around just so they can kick it from time to time. A well designed profession being so tragically weak keeps our spirits low, but it raises the morale of everyone else. there may be more to the politics of running this game than we all previously thought.
-harv
Raptor2k1
Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:36 pm
#9
I don't really see how doing this would cheat the other professions at all. A master rifleman would still have the power if a master rifleman - just that they have the opporunity to enhance their rifle skills even more through the commando profession. Heck, I'd think most folks would even welcome such a change.
Kalano
Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:59 pm
#10
nbd9k wrote:
i would love nothing more than to see our profession be all that it can be. unfortunately, im beginning to think that we may be the little dog everyone keeps around just so they can kick it from time to time. A well designed profession being so tragically weak keeps our spirits low, but it raises the morale of everyone else. there may be more to the politics of running this game than we all previously thought.
-harv
I truely hope you are wrong on this. I do understand the reasoning, but i truely hope it is not politics. that would truely scare me and ruin the game for ever.
ScottfBennett
Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:04 pm
#11
i personaly think the acid gun should be nerfed and they should add in a chaingun or something.
Kalano
Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:37 am
#12
ScottfBennett wrote:
i personaly think the acid gun should be nerfed and they should add in a chaingun or something.
EH? Why do you want to nerf an already nerfed and rarely used weapon? Don't take weapons away, fix them and add new working weapons on top of that.
Don't mention nerf anything on the commandos, we been nerfed enough. Now it is time to fix and improve.
StarNick
Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:46 am
#13
Don't mention nerf anything on the commandos, we been nerfed enough. Now it is time to fix and improve.
He speaks the bad word!!!!!! (a la Nightshade's "The Village")
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