Commando Archive
Thread: A Commando's Despair (What happened, Helios?)
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JoKen_Jash
Mon May 09, 2005 9:21 am
#1
Ok, this may be a bit of a rant.
When the CU first hit Test Center, all of us who were there were excited about the commando profession. All our consumables were replaced with full time weapons. However, one thing really bothered me: We had lost all of our specials. I shrugged it off and told myself it'd be fine. After all, we had a dev working with us on this profession, this had been made abundantly clear by Helios.
The loss of our specials was probably the first omen to our current measly role.
Garvin came out a few days later and said that our specials had been built into our weapons. I figured this was ok, except another thing was bothering me. If our specials were our weapons, then why are our weapons' dps being beaten by several other high level weapons in other professions? Specials increase the damage of your weapon by an average factor of 2-3, depending on the special. Again, I shrugged it off and told myself it'd be fine. Besides, at that time, I was too busy trying to fight the abomination known as the level modifiers to bother fighting our specials issue, though I did make one post about giving us a single, master level super heavy special.
But again, we had a seemingly small problem that could lead to disasterous results.
Next was our AoE. We wouldn't hit any of the other creatures except the ones that we were directly targeting for very much at all, basically making us a "magnet of death," especially since the vast majority of our weapons are AoE. I also figured it was bug, like the rest of us.
Then came the giving of the Proton Carbine to BHs. This probably didn't look like much of a problem at the time, considering we got the Proton Rifle.
Gradually, our issues were building up, like having a very crappy rocket launcher that we felt should be much more lethal.
Then came the respec, learning we would have to regrind entire professions if we were commandos or BHs. This led to many hours of useless, boring grinding that could've been used more constructively.
Then it went live.
Our AoE problem wasn't fixed.
Our DPS compared to other professions wasn't fixed.
We got no specials.
We didn't power up other specials like we were supposed to either.
We had been reduced to measly, unneeded combat role that wasn't worth the effort to get. We are now only cool particle effects. Lights and smoke. Not even useful in pve anymore.
And then came RotW, which added insult to injury. The BH's most prized possesion, something I thought we should've gotten from the beginning, an assault rifle, which we'd been asking for for a long time, has a base dps of 330, and has an insanely easy quest to complete to get it.
Our proton rifle, however, was for some unknown reason, placed in as a random loot drop in a god-forsaken cave on an impossibly hard boss mob, and it wasn't even guaranteed to drop. And since you needed a huge group to get it, and you could get other loot from it as well that isn't commando specific, you'd have to do it until everyone got what they wanted; a process that could potentially take an entire day or longer. And that's provided you could even beat the mob.
And then we learn that our AoE was INTENDED to hit for a tiny amount against other mobs. Yet other profession's AoE attacks work perfectly fine and do full damage. If our weapons are our specials, why then, does our FORCED AoE cause practically no damage to other mobs in the blast radius?
What do we need fixed?
- Well, first of all, our weapons should have base DPS's in the 500s range. Will this be overpowering with other specials? Possibly. If the devs are concerned about that, then give us a negative modifier tohigher levelspecials' damage to give us altogether more damage; even with specials, but not enough to make us insanely overpowered.
- Fix our grenades to give us more damage and more speed.
- The proton rifle MUST have increased DPS AND a quest of it's own.
- We want the underslung carbine to be certed at master. Here's how I envision it working: Max damage at 400-500, and a speed of 1 or 1.1. This would basically make it like an extremely fas gun, firing every second or so. Considering we have no specials of our own, and not everyone wants to dabble, this weapon would be perfect.
- Fix our AoE to do full damage or 80-90% damage against any other mobs in the blast radius.
- Cert us an advanced rocket launcher at incindeiary IV or master.
I think this covers it. This would make us more desireable. Our weapons should be relatively slow with high damages or, in the case of us getting an assault rifle, high speed with low damage. This would make us the real heavy hitters associated with a "Heavy Weapons Specialist," which is what we are.
But considering the dev's track record, they'll cert away the underslung to some other profession and we'll get nerfed to the point of being completely and utterly useless... which isn't really far off when you think about it.
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 05-09-2005 12:53 PM
Ternque01
Mon May 09, 2005 10:19 am
#2
Alot of good points. It would be nice if Helios could read this.
Akimari
Mon May 09, 2005 10:44 am
#3
I have the same feeling, i ve always had an alt TKM/Commando i have respeced to Mcomm/Mcarbine, wanted to try that long ago but carbines werent that great.
The few months before CU, when they started to give infos about new weapons/roles we heard about the proton carbine ( which everyone thought it could be the top of the line for carbineer). I started a toon to be MCH/Mcarb (been always appealed to carbines)
Then we heard weapons might be put to specific proffessions. So a lot of commandos started to hope for the proton carbine as it looked the most commando-like auto weapon.
But no lol, Finally it went for MBH, and commando got a ....rifle ? I admit the flammer always been overpowered when you could hit for 12K, insta-killing things like shaffs and the like 
But the way they rebuilt aoe in heavy weapon LOL it just do ZERO ae and still you aggro the whole pack of mob, GREAT LOL . The ae dot seem to apply though, but at a rate like 15% of time....Usually group already killed most stuff before you can even apply the dot.
No specials in commando didnt bother me too much, as you can now use cross prof specials,but is it really usefull when even pistols outdame by FAR ?
I understand they didnt want to make commando too powerfull, or else every l337 idiots or powergrinders would mass migrate to commando.But its just set way too low...honestly
Like you i think rocket launcher could have been put higher in tree, or at least have an advanced one at master
Now enough with the little rant 
I really hopethey didnt give up working on the underslug carbine,look even more commando than proton carb. But knowing of SOE logic if it make live im not even sure it would go to commando .
if it make live im not even sure it would go to commando .Hope, wait and see ...
Message Edited by Akimari on 05-09-2005 07:47 PM
Ryubushi
Mon May 09, 2005 11:38 am
#5
I've got one to add to that: Professions that spend less skill points than us *still* kick our asses. We have no state recoveries or specials, and yet we spend more skill points? What the hell?
With Carbineer 0400, I do a lot more damage than I do using my commando weapons. And by a lot, I mean animals and NPCs keep swarming me rather than the rest of the group because I seem to be the biggest threat. (*edit* Actually, I should specify that I'm using the BH specials with a carbine. Still, I outdamage what I can do with my commando weapons by far)
I doubt we'll see this fixed in the near future, so I propose a "quick fix," like what they gave the bounty hunters when they dropped the Master Scout requirement.
At Master Commando, give us the 15 skill points back that we spent to get novice brawler. We can then invest those in other professions to complement commando up until the point in time that a true commando revamp rolls around. Drop Master Commando at any point, and you lose those 15 skill points again.
Message Edited by Ryubushi on 05-09-2005 11:49 AM
Kesslan
Mon May 09, 2005 11:42 am
#6
Aye I had to shift out of TK to pick up another proff to supplement my commando's skills just so he coudl have useable specials. The only thing AOE seems to be good for now is area dots. And yeah.. they usually dont stick. Except for root. That oddly seems to almsot allways stick for me. ANd I hate how the only long range Commando weapon seems to be the rocket launcher. Which at level 80 against level 80 critters. Does laughable damage.
StarNick
Mon May 09, 2005 2:41 pm
#7
And on a similar note, Im hearing that the stats on the proton carbine ARE intended...
Looking into this, but I don't have a whole lot of answers just yet
Looking into this, but I don't have a whole lot of answers just yet
Ternque01
Mon May 09, 2005 3:02 pm
#8
StarNick wrote:
And on a similar note, Im hearing that the stats on the proton carbine ARE intended...
Looking into this, but I don't have a whole lot of answers just yet
If the state of the Commando profession IS intended, I'm gonna judge it to be a 2 for damage output instead of the INTENDED 5 it is supposed to be.
I am HEAVILY dissapointed in a Master Commando's damage output, I bought a pricey 300 base DPS Plasma Flamer and itis HORRIBLEin PvP. Splash damage is non existant, and getting special states to transfer to surrounding enemies is extremely unreliable.
SavoySix
Mon May 09, 2005 3:22 pm
#9
I respec'ed from BH to be an awesome Commando...What happened?
Savoy....out
Cpl_Fisher
Mon May 09, 2005 3:45 pm
#10
yep that about sums up our problems.
grenades, still borked
aoe damage is nonexistant.
no state specials
I want my launcher rifle. 
StarNick
Mon May 09, 2005 5:11 pm
#11
No, commando is not intended to be borked as it is, or hell shallth be raised. I have confidence in Helios after all he has done and worked on, but there was a REALLY big fudging for the commando profession that got messed up at the end of testing, and hasn't been fixed because the CU went live...we hopefully we'll be seeing the fruits of his labor soon. There hasn't been a big publish yet, and theres quite a bit they're working on I suspect (given the last sparse list of hotfixes...)
Our two biggest issues are the AoE and Grenades, which Helios is both very well aware of. Its more a question of when, till then we have to be a bit more patient - although our patience has stood the test of almost 2 years now...but I can assure you guys, that it IS coming.
Our two biggest issues are the AoE and Grenades, which Helios is both very well aware of. Its more a question of when, till then we have to be a bit more patient - although our patience has stood the test of almost 2 years now...but I can assure you guys, that it IS coming.
zRhyno
Mon May 09, 2005 5:52 pm
#12
I love my MCommando/Msmuggler/2420 carb template, but i find myself not even using my commando weapons anymore. Only thing im using right now is DC15 with shots from carb and smuggler, because this rifle seems to do way more damage than using a commando wep with either its own built in special, or another professoins special. Right now all i use commando for is AOE roots
A I M E S
Talst
Wed May 11, 2005 3:45 am
#13
I'm a respec com - made the change becuase I'd wanted to be one for ages but couldn't face another grind.
Love the toys, the titles, and the feel - would like to be a little more of a "heavy weaps" guy as in the tradition of much sci-fi, slow to move, best off static, but when they pull the trigger.....everyone should duck. An assault trooper would be a great way to go also - good for one devestating charge, leaving comrades to hold gained ground whileyou recover.
In fact, the idea of the com isthe mostinteresting straight combat prof, unfortunatley it seems to be the one left outof the efforts to balancethe combat profs against one another. Having no true combat role has lef the proffesionvery poorely realised since the CU.
I hope that AOE's can be fixed to actually have a reason to be - there is something wrong when a guy with a rifle can be more effective against a gang of charging Wooks than the guy with the rocket launcher. And if they get properly fixed so that the prof can hold it's own with these built in "specials" why not nerf the majority of the regular specials with these weapons?
Nades - it's a small suggestion - and one that will no doubt get lost in the mire of other ideas, but the idea of nades is that they are assault and defence weapons - in other words you pull them out quickly and follow up with more of the same or rapid fire guns. How about a system where the "throw" button goes grey in sections? Each nade fill up the button 25% - so you can rattle out 4 nades and then have a big cool down? Simulates having a pouch of them ready for use quickly, and then having to rumage around for a fresh set, a quick cool down on all other specials though - no reason why you can't fire your gun having popped out a few bombs - that's the point of them after all.
I'd also suggest an increased cool down / swap penelty to switching between heavy weaps - unwrapping that rocket launcher having been waving around a flamer is going to take a little time - not so with a pistol, or assault rifle of course - but then that would be an issue that I would raise with all weapons, they should have a "make ready" cool down/swap penelty - probably too complicated to impliment now though. Would make us com's weapon specialsts in a true sense of the name though - got your flamer out, and a regular gun in reserve, and thats you sorted - takes time to change roles to become a rocket launcher guy.
There is also a big gap in the com's weapon tree - the heavy machine gun (swg version of course). This is something that I just can't see a reason behind leaving out - give it hellish movement penelties by all means - but it's one of the classic heavy weapons that just isn't covered at all by any prof in the game so far.
So yeah - com for 2 weeks and already I'm yapping on. I'll shut up now.
Message Edited by Talst on 05-11-2005 11:48 AM
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