Commando Archive
Thread: Is there any good reason why Commandos need the pistol/carbine marksman trees?
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Elan_Nossirah
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:32 am
#1
I'm a Master Commando, although I don't do a whole lot of ground pounding, especially since JTL. I admit that I don't really know a lot of the ins and outs of this profession and would not be as effective on the battlefield as I could be. I've never really done any PvP either. But I'm trying to learn more about it and want to explore it more.
Anyway, I was looking through the skills of the Commando and those of the Marksman and don't really see a whole lot of benefit from the pistol and carbine trees. Master Marksman is required to get Commando. Sure there is the LP but does anybody actually really use that over the FT or grenades?
The main reason I bring this up actually has to do with Skill Points. As a TKM/MC/Novice Medic, I have 3 SPs left. It's a nice combat template for sure but it severely limits the ability to dabble in anything else. It would be nice to be able to have enough SP to say get Business III so I could set up a vendor. Or perhaps gain a few more medic boxes to be a bit more effective in healing.
So what if they reduced the requirements of MC to only need 4004 Marksman? After all, TKM only requires 4000 of Brawler. This would free up about 38(?) SP to broaden out the template a bit more.
Now I may not be looking at the big picture right now and maybe I'm missing something here that makes the use of all those SP necessary to balance against other types of templates. I just don't know. It just seems to me that a MC would still be just as effective without the pistol/carbine skills required by needing Master Marksman.
Ah well, even if I were right I surely don't think that it would be changed any time soon. 
Velneth
Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:25 am
#2
Because Commandos are suppose to be a profession that's extreamly well versed in ranged combat. I think that many Commando players would prefer to see all the skills have a form of continual useage, like the Marksman Pistols branch does than a reduction in skill points nessisary.
As it is, Commandos have a pistol, a rifle (sorta at least...). They're just missing some advanced unarmed moves and a carbine.
As it is, Commandos have a pistol, a rifle (sorta at least...). They're just missing some advanced unarmed moves and a carbine.
Evelas
Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:22 am
#3
Is there any good reason why Commandos need the pistol/carbine marksman trees?
-because the devs hate us
sinisterpropoise
Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:54 am
#4
Oh come on, I doubt the devs hate us -- it's not like we're EQ necromancers when the developers saidthey deserved to be nerfed. (Really good thinking from when EQ was owned by Verant.) I just don't think we were thought out well.
Instead, why n ot change the fourth skill tree in marksman to a heavy weapons one -- make the launcher pistol the weapon that can be used then make that the ONLY prerquisite for commando. Right now there's no really sensical reason for the prerquisites to be what they are.
StarNick
Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:32 am
#5
Think about it this way...
Reduce our Pre-reqs, our leverage in bargaining with the devs to try and get us as powerful as we want commandos to be will be lost.
Besides, post-CURB we'll be seeing all but one of those pre-req trees, be used in an effective way in commando (chants "underslung carbine" repeatedly...we wants it!)...
Ryubushi
Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:13 pm
#6
sinisterpropoise wrote:
Oh come on, I doubt the devs hate us -- it's not like we're EQ necromancers when the developers saidthey deserved to be nerfed. (Really good thinking from when EQ was owned by Verant.) I just don't think we were thought out well.
Instead, why n ot change the fourth skill tree in marksman to a heavy weapons one -- make the launcher pistol the weapon that can be used then make that the ONLY prerquisite for commando. Right now there's no really sensical reason for the prerquisites to be what they are.
Wasn't there a thread last year from the devs that wasn't supposed to become public, but somehow did, in which one of the devs stated specifically that they did indeed hate the commando profession?
I never actually saw the thread myself, but I believe several others did. Garvin and some of the vets may remember it.
StarNick
Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:22 pm
#7
Unfortunately I wasnt online to see that...if anyone has a copy of that, I would really like to see it heh...
I think im one of the only vets that actually didnt see it...I was in NYC that day visitng my grandparents, so I came back to forums that were buzzing with how the devs hate us and was like "Wth?"
I think im one of the only vets that actually didnt see it...I was in NYC that day visitng my grandparents, so I came back to forums that were buzzing with how the devs hate us and was like "Wth?"
Warmaker01
Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:30 pm
#8
Ryubushi wrote:
sinisterpropoise wrote:Oh come on, I doubt the devs hate us -- it's not like we're EQ necromancers when the developers said they deserved to be nerfed. (Really good thinking from when EQ was owned by Verant.) I just don't think we were thought out well.Instead, why n ot change the fourth skill tree in marksman to a heavy weapons one -- make the launcher pistol the weapon that can be used then make that the ONLY prerquisite for commando. Right now there's no really sensical reason for the prerquisites to be what they are.Wasn't there a thread last year from the devs that wasn't supposed to become public, but somehow did, in which one of the devs stated specifically that they did indeed hate the commando profession?
I never actually saw the thread myself, but I believe several others did. Garvin and some of the vets may remember it.
Eh? How long ago was this statement?
As for the Commando pre-requisites: They make sense, IMO. When I think of the term Commando, I picture a highly trained serviceman. Proficient in many types of small arms and close combat, possessing knowledge in demolitions/explosives. The only thing we're missing from our pre-requisites is Scout related stuff to really lay in the feel of a Commando.
I know SWG presents us "awkwardly." But at least the Imperial Storm Commandos show some of this diversity in military skills. You can see them utilize a carbine (E11), rifle (E11, DLT20/a), and grenades.
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
deadlybounty
Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:51 pm
#9
we get melee defence thats y we have unarmed tree and as for ranged we have that defence too and commando needs heavy muscled ppl to even carry a flamethrower or acid rifle....so i suppose we have to b real for it so master marks and unarmed 
but it didb still nice to have sum cool moves
Cpl_Fisher
Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:39 pm
#10
Becuase of
1) The launcher pistol
2) a carbine yet to be named.
3) the previous 2 give me leverage to ask for a Launcher rifle. for you military types out there, thing Mke-19 automatic Grenade launcher. MUHAHHAHAHAAAAA
BloodMonk
Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:28 pm
#11
well... I do use the pistol/Carbines skills of markman w/ commando (I once even pvp'd with m commando and m markman being my only combat skills)
pistols: gives you the specials to use with the LP...most notable: kipupshot (it let's you get up from post down when dizzy without fallign over)
carbines: stating and post. down attack: Full auto single and actionshot^
rifles: no idea lol
ranged support: gives you surpression fire and threaten/warning shot (those last two are only good for pve)
Sly
RazaKuhn
Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:11 am
#12
I would have to agree with you on this one. When I first started using the star wars character builder I found you have enough points to be MR/MC/MP, or in the brawler side TK, Fencer, Swords. However, commando and bh both leave little left for anything other than an accompanying weapon profession. I would like to see a reduction in the skill point needs of these two professions. I for one would love to be commando/ranger, but they are both such point suckers that it isn't funny. And with the state of most of professions today usually only 1-2 branches are actually useful.
garvin
Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:18 am
#13
Ewww....I've been waiting for this question to come up...and the answer is YES, we need those trees...We need them now for what we have and we need them in place for what we are going to get...Crypic Enough?
Looking at how we are now, let's take a step back and examine how we were originally intended to be. We are suppose to be an Elite version of the Elite Ranged professions...a sort of mix of all of them but with a focus on Heavy Damage rather then speed and range. Our Pre-Reqs are also a "background" story of making us "the front line heavy damage soldier".
To be brunt (and we may disagree), the Devs ultimately justify the power we have because of our pre-req cost. Yes, this "reasoning" sucks and we know it's a bit off (since we are often out powered by lesser costing professions).
Now...the question is "What's Coming that will make this better?"...That's a tough question to answer without violating the NDA. I will say this though, our pre-reqs WILL help us. Thats a goal for Commandos and other professions via the CU (to make the pre-reqs worthwhile). This "help" could come in many forms (and does). Post-CU, our pre-reqs will cease being just back-filler on our story and actually become more worthwhile. We will actually USE what we get from Marksman & our Unarmed pre-req. This is one of the biggest pluses I see coming for Commandos (what we get from our pre-reqs) and something I'm very excited about.
Will we be completely satisfied and not want to change/alter our pre-reqs post-CU? Don't know yet without proper testing...but we'll definitely be on better footing to make a case if we do need some changes. Things will make more sense for us with the CU and new doors will be open that you may never have even considered. The old "carbon copy" templates should cease to be the route we typically go.
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