Commando Archive
Thread: NERF for us all on TC2
Even if the Devs decide to keep that change (remember that this is a TEST server...nothing on a test server is guarenteed to ever go live) I'm not to worried about it from a Commando Standpoint...
99% of Commandos use their FT's pretty much all the time...we only switch occasionally to use our other "dabbled" profession weapons occasionally...
I could have sworn that during this 5 second delay, you are still firing the first weapon...I'll double check that tonight when I play...I was switching between VK's and my Lightsaber last night and noticed the 5 sec delay, but didn't notice a pause it hits...
This in reality is NO way a Commando NERF...it's just business as usual and hardly noticable (and that is coming from someone who is playing on TC2 with a M.Commando/TKM
Message Edited by garvin on 06-04-2004 11:50 AM
it's on test center also, but the one i know about is for armor... when you try and equip armor you get a system message "getting ready to equip armor" and your armor is equipped 5 sec later. it'svery annoying, and switching weapons would be double annoying. i did not notice it with weapons. on test center. have not tried it in test center 2. i think these delays will only make gameplay slow and frustrating.
i started a thread on the armorsmith forum about this, and they where all for it. i do not know why. they said encumberance is supposed to mean more. i think it would just make this game funless if you put all these restrictions.
plz. let's stop this before it goes live....
p.s. the armorsmith coorespondent(who is for the delay)said that the tailor coorespondent was really worried about this. maybe get them tailors to look into this too.
This REALLY upsets me to hear you say this. Not because it isn't true, but because you are just conceeding to another nerf. Have you looked at it from this angle:say when the combat rebalance finally comes around and our HAR gets something nice like AP3, or a nice dot, or we get some decent unarmed specials, or some LP ones, then we ARE being slapped with the nerf stick, anda big one at that. Commando's can't afford another 5 seconds of no damage, and its sad to me that a die hard commando like you aren't looking ahead for this issue. Sure it may not be a problem now with the fact we have only one useable weapon, but give us some working weapons, and we are going to be seriously hurting from this.
garvin wrote:
If this is true, the only time it would really hurt a Commando is switching from a Non-Commando weapon to the FT (we don't typically use our other Commando weapons)...as in...Using VKs then a 5 second delay to arm our FT for a /flamesingle2 followed by a 6 - 10 delay for cool-down on the special...That's the worst case scenerio (hit, switch delay, special, delay)...
But other reports I see coming in (like in the BH forum) are that it's more like a 3 second delay, and it's only when you've had a weapon equiped for less then 5 seconds...So if equip my VKs then immediately try and equip my FT, there will be a delay...but if I equip my VKs and do an /unarmedhit3 and a couple of other hits for 5 seconds, I can then equip my FT with no delay...one flamesingle will eat up the delay with it's on built in delay so again, no issue...
Hopefully, even with the devs at Fan Fest, we'll hear back soon on this issue...but I wouldn't get concerned with it just yet...
garvin wrote:
Even if the Devs decide to keep that change (remember that this is a TEST server...nothing on a test server is guarenteed to ever go live) I'm not to worried about it from a Commando Standpoint...
99% of Commandos use their FT's pretty much all the time...we only switch occasionally to use our other "dabbled" profession weapons occasionally...
I could have sworn that during this 5 second delay, you are still firing the first weapon...I'll double check that tonight when I play...I was switching between VK's and my Lightsaber last night and noticed the 5 sec delay, but didn't notice a pause it hits...
This in reality is NO way a Commando NERF...it's just business as usual and hardly noticable (and that is coming from someone who is playing on TC2 with a M.Commando/TKM
Message Edited by garvin on 06-04-2004 11:50 AM
I disagree that this isn't a commando nerf... If you use that logic it isn't a nerf of ANY class and falls between all of the correspondent cracks.
Technically, I think this is a nerf of every combat class that has extra skill points to spend after master, including commando. I encourage you Garvin to group with the other correspondents and kill this nerf.
Now to the merits...if this change is intended I am FREAKING OUTRAGED. Most of this outrage stems from the fact that although on TC2, this change has NEVER EVER EVER been mentioned in ANY test notes or documentation I have seen. It is a phantom nerf, and I despise phantom nerf, regardless of whether they take place on TC (if they want us to test things, common sense says that they should be telling us what we are testing).
The rest of my outrage comes form the fact that this is a stupid, needless nerf that accomplishes nothing. If I spend the skill points to buytwo combatclasses I should be able to use the abilities of both. I got bored and watched Episodes 4, 5, and 6 last night, back to back, and watched Luke switch seamlesslybetween pistol and lightsaber several times.
In fact, this isn't even a nerf of stacking... Lately I have been hunting pikits on Dath a lot, working on pistol xp. For those of you who know pikits, you know that female pikits are very resistant to energy and weak to acid, and regular pikits are the opposite. So, when you are working on a pikit lair, the resistances of the mobs means that you often have to change PISTOLS (not weapon types mind you) to be able to effectively take care of the mobs). This nerf would kill flexibility even within a single profession.
Stupid, totally stupid...I hope is is just a mess up.
Aladine wrote:
This REALLY upsets me to hear you say this. Not because it isn't true, but because you are just conceeding to another nerf. Have you looked at it from this angle:say when the combat rebalance finally comes around and our HAR gets something nice like AP3, or a nice dot, or we get some decent unarmed specials, or some LP ones, then we ARE being slapped with the nerf stick, anda big one at that. Commando's can't afford another 5 seconds of no damage, and its sad to me that a die hard commando like you aren't looking ahead for this issue. Sure it may not be a problem now with the fact we have only one useable weapon, but give us some working weapons, and we are going to be seriously hurting from this.
This is EXACTLY what I was trying to avoid in this thread...It's not a NERF until it's confirmed...what we have here is someone creating Panic (the original poster) without supplying all the facts...
There is nothing for the Correspondents to ban together against until we confirm that it's not just a TC2 bug...I have fought as a Commando on TC2 and switched my weapons from LS to FT...I haven't noticed a delay unless I switch and then switch again within 3 seconds as reported by MANY PEOPLE!!!
How many Commandos switch to another weapon immediately after doing a Flame Special? NONE!!!! You can't...you have to wait out the flame special delay before you can...and when using a Flame Thrower even without using specials, how many of us only equip it for 3 seconds or less...heck, most flame throwers on average shot at speeds of 4.8...
If this isn't a bug, it will hurt a Commando if they switch from their FT (without doing a Flame Special) to a weapon like their VK (no delay at this point), hit a quick special and try to switch back within 3 to 5 seconds...then there will be a delay...but if your other weapon specials take longer then 3 to 5 seconds there should not be a delay...
So where is the Major hurt to a Commando in all this? Please point it out...
Besides...When a change like this is going into place, typically the Devs let us Correspondents know ahead of time so we can discuss the pros and cons (of course they don't always listen)...The have said nothing about this to us...which makes me think they are still just "testing" it out with the possibility of NEVER going live or it is a BUG only....
There is no reason to Panic...there is no reason to call in the Troops...folks are just jumping the gun based off of what is happening on a VERY UNSTABLE test server...
I will run more tests tonight and report back...
Message Edited by garvin on 06-04-2004 03:00 PM
Again...before pantic goes further, read the following tread, and especially this person's test results:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=222986#M222986
If it turns out that this is wrong and the worst case scenrio is that there is a 5 second delay for any weapon change no matter how long you have had it equiped, I'll fight it with everything I have...We already wait 6 to 10 seconds after using a flame special before we can switch weapons, if that is compounding with having to wait a further 5 seconds for the new weapon to equip (bring the change time to 11 - 15 seconds) then there will be hell to pay...but I haven't confirmed yet that this is the case...and it's hard to confirm because there is also a Speed bug currently on TC2 causing unusual effects combined with an intense lag in certain areas...
That's why I say that you can't trust anything non-jedi coming out of TC2...it's fairly bug ridden currently...
Raptor2k1 wrote:
I don't see why everyone's upset. If this is intened it's part of combat revamp and will add another tactical layer to combat. This doesn't just single us out (in fact, since our specials on the FT have such a high delay, we might not be affecte at all) as it affects everyone.
I can easliy see why they would want to do this too. Switcing weapons an armor instantly is extremely unrealistc. You try running down a hall while taking off your clothes, putting on body armor, and switching froma hand-gun to a flamethrower some time - it just doesn't happen.
If this is real, all that's going to happen is that you'll need to change tactics some. Learn to adapt. If you think things will never change you're seriously mistaken.
Try storing 3 swoopbikes in a datapad. Try to carry around enough items and resources in a backpack to make a large house (complete with non function curtains and marble flooring (naboo style)). You cant do these things in real life, but you can do this in SWG the GAME. Any sense of realism you have should be demolished the instant a vehicle appears out of no where or the instant you war 150m away from your bike the moment you dismount it.
Im fully aware that this is TestCenter2 and things are subject to change or be deleted entirely.There is a distinct possibility that this was placed into test to judge are reaction to that change. Here is my reaction, i dont like it. The bounty hunters arent too found of it either - http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=222906
Things always change, change is a constant. That doesnt mean that im forced to be happy OR quiet about any change that happens. Only tools roll over, play dead and keep their mouths shut when they are confronted with something that they do not like. My kicking and screaming may not make a difference but 30 bucks a month (2 accounts) for this game says that i have the right to speak out about it. And i will as long as these fingers hold out 
I cant speak for every player but i cant speak for myself. IF (<--- see the if word there?) this is brought to live its going to seriously alter my gameplay.
LoKharn wrote:
And moreover, i m amazed that anyone sees the instant change armor-clothes in less than 1" as a normal thing....5" to change clothes to armor isn t an amazing delay...but well, is my humble opinion only.....
Just confirmed it...NO NERF!!!
If you equip a weapon you have to wait between 3 to 5 seconds before you can equip another...in essence:
If I equip my VKs, then immediately try to equip my FT, it will take about 5 seconds to equip...
BUT
If I equip my VKs, use them for 3 to 5 seconds, then try and equip my FT it happens IMMEDIATELY!!!!
The Dev's aren't NERF'ing anything, they are trying to prevent quick macro'ing (switching back and forth between weapons very quick using various specials at mega speed)...
This isn't a NERF...it's a combat fix/change but it doesn't weaken us (so no NERF)...And even if you feel it hurts you, I don't see it as anti-commando since we don't switch faster then 3 to 5 seconds to use our specials (they don't work that fast)...even to switch quick to my VKs to hit a KD, then switch back to my flame doesn't typically work faster then 3 to 5 seconds...If anything this helps the Commando Community...how often have we fought someone in PVP who macro changes between weapons spamming various specials at us before we can even get off 2 shots with our FTs...It's a GOOD THING....We won't be killed by speed macros...
Like I said...just someone unfortunately spreading panic when all the facts aren't known...
And remember, this change may never hit live...since this is a Test Server the Devs will wait to see if the Macro Combat community complains vs. how many don't macro combat...
Message Edited by garvin on 06-04-2004 05:39 PM
garvin wrote:
Just confirmed it...NO NERF!!!
If you equip a weapon you have to wait between 3 to 5 seconds before you can equip another...in essence:
If I equip my VKs, then immediately try to equip my FT, it will take about 5 seconds to equip...
BUT
If I equip my VKs, use them for 3 to 5 seconds, then try and equip my FT it happens IMMEDIATELY!!!!
The Dev's aren't NERF'ing anything, they are trying to prevent quick macro'ing (switching back and forth between weapons very quick using various specials at mega speed)...
This isn't a NERF...it's a combat fix/change but it doesn't weaken us (so no NERF)...And even if you feel it hurts you, I don't see it as anti-commando since we don't switch faster then 3 to 5 seconds to use our specials (they don't work that fast)...even to switch quick to my VKs to hit a KD, then switch back to my flame doesn't typically work faster then 3 to 5 seconds...If anything this helps the Commando Community...how often have we fought someone in PVP who macro changes between weapons spamming various specials at us before we can even get off 2 shots with our FTs...It's a GOOD THING....We won't be killed by speed macros...
Like I said...just someone unfortunately spreading panic when all the facts aren't known...
And remember, this change may never hit live...since this is a Test Server the Devs will wait to see if the Macro Combat community complains vs. how many don't macro combat...
Message Edited by garvin on 06-04-2004 05:39 PM
Maybe not a nerf for commandos but a deffinate kick in the balls for BH who DO switch out weapons VERY FAST.
I lay down confusion - KD then sitch to scatter for torso, then back to carbs or maybe LLC depending if KD stuck. This all happens very very quickly and if any delay is built in will screw BH utility to switch on the fly big time.
I call it a nerf