Commando Archive
Thread: Well I guess even SOETyrant cannot keep a deadline...
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aeuralis
Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:04 pm
#1
Well, Feburary is here and still no Sandbox.
Garvin posted this in December:
****************************************************************************
The biggest thing I want EVERYONE to take away from Tyrant's post is that he says JANUARY...SOETyrant isn't any ordinary Dev...consider him THE DEV IN CHARGE!!! When TH says something, things might change and dates might be missed...TH rolls with those punches...It's SOETyrant that throws those punches...When he says something, you can pretty much guarentee that's the way it's gonna go...So if he says January, it's a pretty good bet it's set in stone...He has a way of MAKING things happen...That's why ALL of us Correspondents love and respect him so much!!!
****************************************************************************
I guess even SOETryant is not as reliable as Garvin believed.
But it is not the missed deadline that really pisses me off. It is thelack of acknowledgment by them of the continuing delays. When I read Garvin's post in december,I beleived that SOETryant was different and was being honest with us.
But it appears that SOETryant is no better and no more in control then TH is.
WHEN WILL WE SEE THE CURB MEET A DEADLINE???
The cries that if the DEV's rush it will not be as good are bogus. The summit was in September.At that summit the DEV's showed the plan to the the Correspondents.
So the PLAN was done then. Now i realize that some changes have been made but the bulk was done then.
On 28 OCT 04, TH posted
*******************************************************************************************************
We have been working to complete the alpha version of Combat Upgrade since Publish 9. Initial alpha testing will start in a few weeks.
So being that they have been working on it since Publish 9 (2 JULY 04) that means that as of tomorrow they have been working on it for 6 months. THAT IS A LONG TIME!! Long enough to get it right. Them trying to get it right doesn't grant a blank check on time.
And now "a few weeks" has turned in to 3 months.
So WHEN WILL IT END OR WILL 2 JULY 05 come and go without ALPHA starting??
Message Edited by aeuralis on 02-01-2005 08:52 AM
RankorCity
Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:12 pm
#2
You and I must be on the same wavelength...
I just posted in the "Whats going on with Combat Part 2", although in not so many words.
January came.
January went.
SOETyrant must be drinking from the same Kool-Aid as TH. I was skeptical of Tyrant, like I am with all the red letter names here.
Cant imagine why.
Publishes have been pushed out, all promising fixes. But the sad thing is, what they are trying to fix, never actually gets fixed. It breaks it more.
I put faith in Garvin's belief that SOETyrant would be straight with us (not just Commandos, but ALL players). And it is of NO fault of Garvin that Tyrant turns out to be just as bad as the rest of them.
Empty promises. Business as usual.
Pathetic, Tyrant. Very pathetic.
Pathetic, Thunderheart. Very pathetic.
I want to quit the game (or world) I love to play in....But its almost a contest now, to see how far I can go before I let them "beat" me. Its as if these guys are TRYING to demolish the game. Its like I am in some sick, twisted, sadistic self abuse thing lol...I dunno. Its almost a contest to see how far I can be pushed before I say "Forget it. You win. I give up. You want me (and other players) to cancel our subscriptions because of your continual lying, fine. I quit."
However, sooner or later, one will come in and say "it wasnt set in stone, January was only a target, blah blah blah"....You know, I would be fine if they came in mid-January, or closer to the end of the month, and said "People, we are running into some delays in the tweaking. We have been going over the numbers with the Correspondents, and are hammering down the smallest details before we get Alpha going...Please understand, that if it werent settled before, it would have been settled after, therefore the same delay (or possibley longer) would have happened. We just wanted to let you know we ARE making progress, and wanted to update you on our progress. Keep in contact with your correspondents and let them know any new issues you might have that could be addressed in the CU"
Something like that, or to that effect, would do wonders.
Unfortunately, they dont see it that way.
They seem to think that clear, concise information is a bad thing. Hence (paraphrased):
"After the holidays" - Statement made by TH before Thanksgiving...Which holidays? Thanksgiving? Christmas? New Years? Fat Tuesday? Ash Wednesday? Valentines Day? Easter? Memorial Day? Labor Day? Thanksgiving 2005? Christmas 2005?
"Alpha will begin in January" - Statement made by TH and/or Tyrant...Which January? January 2005? January 2006? 2007?!??!?!
Bad show, Tyrant and TH. Bad show.
Do SOMETHING to give us faith in you again. Give us SOMETHING concrete. Dont just throw a bone. Throw the whole damned skeleton.
nerfherder321
Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:20 pm
#3
RankorCity wrote:
You and I must be on the same wavelength...
I just posted in the "Whats going on with Combat Part 2", although in not so many words.
January came.
January went.
SOETyrant must be drinking from the same Kool-Aid as TH. I was skeptical of Tyrant, like I am with all the red letter names here.
Cant imagine why.
Publishes have been pushed out, all promising fixes. But the sad thing is, what they are trying to fix, never actually gets fixed. It breaks it more.
I put faith in Garvin's belief that SOETyrant would be straight with us (not just Commandos, but ALL players). And it is of NO fault of Garvin that Tyrant turns out to be just as bad as the rest of them.
Empty promises. Business as usual.
Pathetic, Tyrant. Very pathetic.
Pathetic, Thunderheart. Very pathetic.
I want to quit the game (or world) I love to play in....But its almost a contest now, to see how far I can go before I let them "beat" me. Its as if these guys are TRYING to demolish the game. Its like I am in some sick, twisted, sadistic self abuse thing lol...I dunno. Its almost a contest to see how far I can be pushed before I say "Forget it. You win. I give up. You want me (and other players) to cancel our subscriptions because of your continual lying, fine. I quit."
However, sooner or later, one will come in and say "it wasnt set in stone, January was only a target, blah blah blah"....You know, I would be fine if they came in mid-January, or closer to the end of the month, and said "People, we are running into some delays in the tweaking. We have been going over the numbers with the Correspondents, and are hammering down the smallest details before we get Alpha going...Please understand, that if it werent settled before, it would have been settled after, therefore the same delay (or possibley longer) would have happened. We just wanted to let you know we ARE making progress, and wanted to update you on our progress. Keep in contact with your correspondents and let them know any new issues you might have that could be addressed in the CU"
Something like that, or to that effect, would do wonders.
Unfortunately, they dont see it that way.
They seem to think that clear, concise information is a bad thing. Hence (paraphrased):
"After the holidays" - Statement made by TH before Thanksgiving...Which holidays? Thanksgiving? Christmas? New Years? Fat Tuesday? Ash Wednesday? Valentines Day? Easter? Memorial Day? Labor Day? Thanksgiving 2005? Christmas 2005?
"Alpha will begin in January" - Statement made by TH and/or Tyrant...Which January? January 2005? January 2006? 2007?!??!?!
Bad show, Tyrant and TH. Bad show.
Do SOMETHING to give us faith in you again. Give us SOMETHING concrete. Dont just throw a bone. Throw the whole damned skeleton.
January ends for another 2 hours...or another year and 2 hours (4 hours here)
aeuralis
Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:43 am
#5
Did anyone honestly believe that they would start it late last night? I didn't.
RankorCity, I agree 100%.
It is a bad show. Fixes are nice but get the CURB out the door and into testing.
The CURB comes first.
nbd9k
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:03 am
#6
Wait a second? who in here was taking part in the alpha testing?
Honestly, im as anxious for the rebalance as everyone else, and ive been one of the loudest complainers since back in december 2003 when TH said they would fix commando.
however, none of us have access to the forums where the CURB is being developed. for all we know, they were about to release it, and our alphas nixed the load because it wasnt satisfactory.
Take a look at some of the changes they HAVE activated in the last month. They are making drastic changes every few days that have pretty much streamlined the game in a number of weeks.
Theyve added more loot, more things to hunt, and the GCW is no longer a walk in the park. theres even a reason to be smuggler again, if only for faction perks. Theyve shared some of their development info for the CURB, and i have to say, im pretty pumped.
No, im not the commando out there hunting rancors, nor flaming rebels as they drop out of the sky around theed. but im really enjoying the fight up in space.
there is more than enough content to keep a player occupied until the CURB hits.
until then, go out and have some fun, go poke around areas you havent been in a few months. things may be pretty different.
leave complaining about the CURB to the guys on the inside.
ps. and seriously, do you think blasting TH or tyrant makes them any more eager or motivated to push that CURB out faster? Im sure if you called me names or 1 stared my posts, i would feel a very strong desire to make this game better for you.
Adifi
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:13 am
#7
To be honest the is no where near enough content to keep people happy to the CURB. While i myself, dont really like these "moan at the devs constantly" posts and all the Dev bashing , i cant agree that there is content.
What do we have as content ?
Pvp - yeah right.....
JTL - not bad but not really anything to do after master
Geono - you can only do this so many times before it becomes a tad boring.
Corvette - Same as above
Dwb - YES !! The only real content we have but this isnt something you can do on a whim - you need a decent prepared group to get anywhere (which is great imho)
All the other caves/dungeons are all the same just with different mobs to kill - none of them offer any real challenge or content.
Grind another proffession - done all the combat proffessions before (some several times). Not a crafter so no point going there.
Quests / Missions - Generally all bugged to hell, no real thought put into them and no real reward for doing them.
SWG has very little content , its just a big grind.
What do we have as content ?
Pvp - yeah right.....
JTL - not bad but not really anything to do after master
Geono - you can only do this so many times before it becomes a tad boring.
Corvette - Same as above
Dwb - YES !! The only real content we have but this isnt something you can do on a whim - you need a decent prepared group to get anywhere (which is great imho)
All the other caves/dungeons are all the same just with different mobs to kill - none of them offer any real challenge or content.
Grind another proffession - done all the combat proffessions before (some several times). Not a crafter so no point going there.
Quests / Missions - Generally all bugged to hell, no real thought put into them and no real reward for doing them.
SWG has very little content , its just a big grind.
aeuralis
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:28 am
#8
my comments in red
nbd9k wrote:
Wait a second? who in here was taking part in the alpha testing?
Honestly, im as anxious for the rebalance as everyone else, and ive been one of the loudest complainers since back in december 2003 when TH said they would fix commando.
however, none of us have access to the forums where the CURB is being developed. for all we know, they were about to release it, and our alphas nixed the load because it wasnt satisfactory.
I am cool IF that is the case BUT they need to come and say that.
That is what i am am saying. The continual delays with out explaination are the major problem.
Take a look at some of the changes they HAVE activated in the last month. They are making drastic changes every few days that have pretty much streamlined the game in a number of weeks.
I like the changes BUT if i had a choice between those changes or the CURB start alpha, I would choose CURB starting alpha. Secondly these changes are things that they should have fixed MONTHS ago.
Theyve added more loot,
Yeah i love the heavy weapon mods that DON"T work and will work SOMEDAY when they get around to releasing the CURB.
more things to hunt,
What new creatures??
and the GCW is no longer a walk in the park. theres even a reason to be smuggler again, if only for faction perks.
It is about time the threw the smugglers a bone
Theyve shared some of their development info for the CURB, and i have to say, im pretty pumped.
Yeah that was nice but Starting testing is MUCH more important. And we will never see the rest until testing starts.
No, im not the commando out there hunting rancors, nor flaming rebels as they drop out of the sky around theed. but im really enjoying the fight up in space.
there is more than enough content to keep a player occupied until the CURB hits.
Good for you.
until then, go out and have some fun, go poke around areas you havent been in a few months. things may be pretty different.
leave complaining about the CURB to the guys on the inside.
NEVER, I pay the same fee they do. I am have it worse because they actually get listened to. I deserve to be informed just as much as they do.
ps. and seriously, do you think blasting TH or tyrant makes them any more eager or motivated to push that CURB out faster? Im sure if you called me names or 1 stared my posts, i would feel a very strong desire to make this game better for you.
The DEV's job is to make the game better. I don't believe that they are holding back or not releasing it becuase they don't like us. I believe they are working hard, I just don't beleive that they are honest with us as to the time line .
Excess3
Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:55 am
#9
Ok. I haven't read all the other posts yet, but I'm making mine anyways so forgive me if I restate what has been said, though I doubt I will.
Alpha tests are never public. It is the weekest, buggiest build. The sandbox is not the alpha test. These are professional programmers, expeirenced game designers, and face it. They know what they are doing better than most of you.
I am sure the sandbox is considered part of the beta testing. It is Beta testing that most of the play "balancing" is done. Beta is where you ferret out all the little bugs. You can't have a good beta if you are still dealing with alpha bugs.
So the sandbox didn't start in January. That doesn't mean they aren't testing already. It doesn't mean they aren't in Beta already. All it means is the sandbox hasn't started and they haven't given us an update on the progress of the CURB. If we started screaming "what stage are you in?!?!?" instead of "where the hell is my sandbox" we are more likely to get a response. Its easier to say we are at the end of the alpha test, or we have just started the beta tests and the public beta (sandbox/public beta/testcenter) will be comming right after that. It is not easy to say "sandbox will start on X/X/200x".
Just because its a beta test doesn't mean its a closed public (invite only~i.e. sandbox) or an open beta (anyone can DL it).
I am willing to bet they have finished the alpha testing and are well in to the beta testing.
This assumption comes from my years as a beta tester. When the public sees the beta, it is at the end of the beta cycle. It is asking your buddy to check your homework before you turn it in. It is asking the guy in the cubicle next to you to proof read the report before you send it up to the boss. Just because we haven't been asked to check things over doesn't mean they aren't working on it.
Don't confuse my post with a claim they are on schedule.
Alpha tests are never public. It is the weekest, buggiest build. The sandbox is not the alpha test. These are professional programmers, expeirenced game designers, and face it. They know what they are doing better than most of you.
I am sure the sandbox is considered part of the beta testing. It is Beta testing that most of the play "balancing" is done. Beta is where you ferret out all the little bugs. You can't have a good beta if you are still dealing with alpha bugs.
So the sandbox didn't start in January. That doesn't mean they aren't testing already. It doesn't mean they aren't in Beta already. All it means is the sandbox hasn't started and they haven't given us an update on the progress of the CURB. If we started screaming "what stage are you in?!?!?" instead of "where the hell is my sandbox" we are more likely to get a response. Its easier to say we are at the end of the alpha test, or we have just started the beta tests and the public beta (sandbox/public beta/testcenter) will be comming right after that. It is not easy to say "sandbox will start on X/X/200x".
Just because its a beta test doesn't mean its a closed public (invite only~i.e. sandbox) or an open beta (anyone can DL it).
I am willing to bet they have finished the alpha testing and are well in to the beta testing.
This assumption comes from my years as a beta tester. When the public sees the beta, it is at the end of the beta cycle. It is asking your buddy to check your homework before you turn it in. It is asking the guy in the cubicle next to you to proof read the report before you send it up to the boss. Just because we haven't been asked to check things over doesn't mean they aren't working on it.
Don't confuse my post with a claim they are on schedule.
RankorCity
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:01 am
#10
My comments in yellow:
nbd9k wrote:
Wait a second? who in here was taking part in the alpha testing?
Not enough people, honestly.
Honestly, im as anxious for the rebalance as everyone else, and ive been one of the loudest complainers since back in december 2003 (one year and 2 months ago) when TH said they would fix commando.
however, none of us have access to the forums where the CURB is being developed. for all we know, they were about to release it, and our alphas nixed the load because it wasnt satisfactory.
THEN DAMNIT, LET US KNOW IF THINGS HAVE BEEN DELAYED!!! COMMUNICATE!!!!
Take a look at some of the changes they HAVE activated in the last month. They are making drastic changes every few days that have pretty much streamlined the game in a number of weeks.
Take a look at the things that were broken (some even more) as a result of these changes. Dancer buffs quit working. Spawns are still broken. Loot is still borked (killing a 300K HAM NPC shouldnt yeild 250 credits). Housing maintanence is broken. Need I go on?
Theyve added more loot (thats worthless), more things to hunt (such as?), and the GCW is no longer a walk in the park (you are kidding, right?). theres even a reason to be smuggler again, if only for faction perks. Theyve shared some of their development info for the CURB, and i have to say, im pretty pumped.
No, im not the commando out there hunting rancors, nor flaming rebels as they drop out of the sky around theed. but im really enjoying the fight up in space.
You mean: Go/fly here. Destroy that. Escort this from point A to point B. Been there, bought the t-shirt.
there is more than enough content to keep a player occupied until the CURB hits. BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! wheeeeeeze BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!
until then, go out and have some fun, go poke around areas you havent been in a few months. things may be pretty different.
leave complaining about the CURB to the guys on the inside.
ps. and seriously, do you think blasting TH or tyrant makes them any more eager or motivated to push that CURB out faster? Im sure if you called me names or 1 stared my posts, i would feel a very strong desire to make this game better for you.
There is a difference. We arent paying YOU to give us info/fix the game.....
TKA-MC
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:16 am
#11
Yep......kinda IMPOSSIBLE to stay POSITIVE when the progress is going like this. I'm through complaining. I'm through caring. I'm through waiting for the fix that will make Commando (my only favorite profession) worth having. Sorry to say it everyone, but just like EVERYBODY and their Uncle is doing.....i'm most likely going to be a Jedi by the time this......thing actually happens. Was getting tired of being own'd in everything. Maybe if Commando is actually fixedand is what it should be I may grind my Alt to Commando. I'll be Commando for a few more weeks, and I'll keep in touch.
Good Luck all
/Salute to my brethren
*once a Commando always a Commando*
Hell.......I don't even want to be a Jedi, just nothing else to do.
Message Edited by TKA-MC on 02-01-2005 09:17 AM
Adifi
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:19 am
#12
Good luck with jedi.... you will be a hell of a lot worse than a commando for a long long long time 
aeuralis
Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:21 am
#13
My comments are in RED.
I am not trying to flame you , just show you the reality of the situation
Excess3 wrote: Ok. I haven't read all the other posts yet, but I'm making mine anyways so forgive me if I restate what has been said, though I doubt I will. Alpha tests are never public. It is the weekest, buggiest build.The sandbox is not the alpha test.
Wrong. For the last 3 months they have been using the term "alpha" and "Sandbox" interchangably.
These are professional programmers, expeirenced game designers, and face it. They know what they are doing better than most of you.
The sandbox/alpha testers are members of this and every other profession's forums. They are subscribers just like you and me.
I am sure the sandbox is considered part of the beta testing.
See above.
It is Beta testing that most of the play "balancing" is done. Beta is where you ferret out all the little bugs. You can't have a good beta if you are still dealing with alpha bugs.
I agree with you here. So the sandbox didn't start in January. That doesn't mean they aren't testing already. It doesn't mean they aren't in Beta already. All it means is the sandbox hasn't started and they haven't given us an update on the progress of the CURB. If we started screaming "what stage are you in?!?!?" instead of "where the hell is my sandbox" we are more likely to get a response. Its easier to say we are at the end of the alpha test, or we have just started the beta tests and the public beta (sandbox/public beta/testcenter) will be comming right after that. It is not easy to say "sandbox will start on X/X/200x". Just because its a beta test doesn't mean its a closed public (invite only~i.e. sandbox) or an open beta (anyone can DL it).
At this point we will have a history lesson
TH posted this on 28 OCT 04, in his "What is going on with combat" post
**********************************************************************************************
We have been working to complete the alpha version of Combat Upgrade since Publish 9.
Initial alpha testing will start in a few weeks. We are inviting correspondents, former correspondents and five people each current correspondent has chosen to do this initial testing. We expect alpha testing to take several weeks. When we reach the point where the implementation is complete but some tuning and debugging is needed, we will begin beta testing. At this time, we will begin inviting community members in who have signed up for beta testing. The closed beta testing will probably not start until after the Holidays, dependent on how quickly the alpha testing period has progressed.
*************************************************************************************************
As you see from the red highlighted section that the sandbox=alpha. Now please note form the green highlighted that closed beta is different from the the sandbox and will occur after the Sandbox is done.
I am willing to bet they have finished the alpha testing and are well in to the beta testing.
So this statement is shown to be false.
This assumption comes from my years as a beta tester. When the public sees the beta, it is at the end of the beta cycle. It is asking your buddy to check your homework before you turn it in. It is asking the guy in the cubicle next to you to proof read the report before you send it up to the boss. Just because we haven't been asked to check things over doesn't mean they aren't working on it. Don't confuse my post with a claim they are on schedule.
Edited for spelling
Message Edited by aeuralis on 02-01-2005 11:47 AM
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