Commando Archive
Thread: What we really need is defense mods!
V1 wrote:
Just wanna put in my two cents.
Everyone is talking about new weapons...we dont need new weapons, we just need the HAR fixed thats it.
What we really need is defensive mods...we get +5 to KDs, big deal. We stink in PVP unless we stack with another profession like pistoleer or TKA.
I believe that the fix we need above all else is KD +50, dizzy +40, and posture change +40...just like pistoleers.
Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks.
As much as I would LOVE to see defensive mods in commando, I disagree. Commando is a big offence profession, and once they fix our offence so we are once again a thing to be feared, if we had good defence mods then we would be overpowered. That would give people a reason to btich about our attacks, and we would get nerfed again. Commando is about frontloading damage, not about slowly ticking it away from a target one shot at a time. If we get defence mods, then we are giving up our claim to being a big damage dealer. Just gotta do what I do, ignore it, and play the profession because its fun, but because it makes me invincible, or go FOTM and be a CM/Rifleman they get good defencemods, and can kill stuff easily.
According to the Devs, our high offense ability equals low defensive abilities to balance...
With that being said, I think they went overboard...Our penalties and restrictions are enough in my book to balance our damage capability...We should have lower defenses, but not as low as they are...
Pistoleer and Rifleman both have higher defenses then us. Pistoleer has higher Melee Defenses then us AND Rifleman can outdamage us when it comes to Damage Per Second (DPS)...Being that we have a significantly higher skill point cost then Rifleman and Pistoleers we shoud at least have higher Melee Defenses then Pistoleer and higher Def Vs. mods....
If we analyze our biggest weaknesses, it comes down to 2 things...
1) Lack of Melee Defenses
2) Lack of Ranged Specials (that's one reason we push for an assultrifle with rifle specials or specials for our LP)
Our most critical melee defense issue is KD...our speed and accuracy means we have a very good chance of missing our first special, and thanks to our delay, we can't do much else after that for a bit...this makes us prime targets for a KD...and on our backs our abilities and weapons are useless...
This is why I've always pushed for a raise in Melee Def, Def Vs. KD & Def Vs. Dizzy (this is what keeps you down after being KD'd)...I've also tried to get us Melee Mitigation 1 (since we have an melee unarmed pre-reg)...
garvin wrote:
According to the Devs, our high offense ability equals low defensive abilities to balance...
With that being said, I think they went overboard...Our penalties and restrictions are enough in my book to balance our damage capability...We should have lower defenses, but not as low as they are...
Pistoleer and Rifleman both have higher defenses then us. Pistoleer has higher Melee Defenses then us AND Rifleman can outdamage us when it comes to Damage Per Second (DPS)...Being that we have a significantly higher skill point cost then Rifleman and Pistoleers we shoud at least have higher Melee Defenses then Pistoleer and higher Def Vs. mods....
If we analyze our biggest weaknesses, it comes down to 2 things...
1) Lack of Melee Defenses
2) Lack of Ranged Specials (that's one reason we push for an assultrifle with rifle specials or specials for our LP)
Our most critical melee defense issue is KD...our speed and accuracy means we have a very good chance of missing our first special, and thanks to our delay, we can't do much else after that for a bit...this makes us prime targets for a KD...and on our backs our abilities and weapons are useless...
This is why I've always pushed for a raise in Melee Def, Def Vs. KD & Def Vs. Dizzy (this is what keeps you down after being KD'd)...I've also tried to get us Melee Mitigation 1 (since we have an melee unarmed pre-reg)...
Every request has met with "Commando defenses will be Addressed in the Combat Balance"...The new speed, accuracy and damage formulas coming out in the new CB are suppose to change things and according to TH, we should be at least happier then we are now...With Publish 9 I will be able to start testing and reporting back on exactly how the CB impacts us...until then, it's hard to propose any major technical change without knowing how these new formulas will work...
I agree sort of, rather then an increased defence on the part of the commando, I would love to see our offence brought back to where it once was. Restore our Flametherower specials with our DOTs to the waythey once were, hell take resists into consideration (that seems like the normal thing to do to keep it from being overpowered.) I would rather see us as a big damage low defence class rather then just one more of the medium-high damage,medium defence.
peer wrote:
I still say accuracy is a large part of our problem... with our long waits between specials, if you miss, you're screwed. We all know that 8-ish seconds is eternity in PvP, and if you can't even hit with your one attack it hurts. At least as a rifleman, if you miss, it's just 1 second. Same with TKM, and lots of other proffs... but not as commando.
Maybe that's just me though, hehe.
That is why I think our DOTS need to be restored to the way they once were, give us a reason to be content being so vulnerable. The way the dots tick now it just isn't worth using specials, and I find I just use my lag-launcher with pistol specials (for now while I still have pistoleer) because it does more damage, and the lag causes some people to hit the most deadly PvP status effect of all...the 1 FPS video condition.
Agree with Adaline. You are the uberest damage class in PVM..you are asking for too much if you expect to be mediocre in PVP. It is called class individuality. I would love for my ranger to hit for 3k on a krayt...not going to happen.
love
Glenda
Surprisingly, I disagree...however...our weakness is NOT with defense mods...its with Counter Mods...
The Hybrids are the only ones who dont get these...to me these are far more important than the basic defense mods...
However, since we take unarmed, and Hvy weapons is a 2.5x to hit penality on it...they should pack us with alot of Def vs KD and Dizzy.
Anyways...the dev's thinking that High offense balances low defense is absurd, and doesnt work in a turn based game such as SWG (others it does, not here however). It would work however, in a twitch enviroment...such as JTL.
Just like the BH, we should be High-Med in Damage-Defenses...but just play a different role.
Also...yes, every1 is talking about new weapons....Two things I want (actually 3): 1) Counter Mods...defense acuity more importantly 2) Combination of the Special Weapon trees 3) Combination of our skill mods into collective pools...making the LP a hvy weapon (no pistol mods..just specials) and putting a foundation of those skills in MM -- None of these entail new weapons...
..and frankly, no one here should be asking for any....fix what we already got, as the devs aint giving us any new stuff
I still say accuracy is a large part of our problem... with our long waits between specials, if you miss, you're screwed. We all know that 8-ish seconds is eternity in PvP, and if you can't even hit with your one attack it hurts. At least as a rifleman, if you miss, it's just 1 second. Same with TKM, and lots of other proffs... but not as commando.
Maybe that's just me though, hehe. 
garvin wrote:
Pistoleer and Rifleman both have higher defenses then us. Pistoleer has higher Melee Defenses then us AND Rifleman can outdamage us when it comes to Damage Per Second (DPS)...Being that we have a significantly higher skill point cost then Rifleman and Pistoleers we shoud at least have higher Melee Defenses then Pistoleer and higher Def Vs. mods....
Mr_Wibble wrote:
garvin wrote:
Pistoleer and Rifleman both have higher defenses then us. Pistoleer has higher Melee Defenses then us AND Rifleman can outdamage us when it comes to Damage Per Second (DPS)...Being that we have a significantly higher skill point cost then Rifleman and Pistoleers we shoud at least have higher Melee Defenses then Pistoleer and higher Def Vs. mods....
*puts pistoleer hat on* Not too sure about the higher def vs mods than pistoleers. Higher melee defence, maybe, but the def vs mods and dodge is about all we have going for us (riflemenhave much higher ranged defences and only slightly lower melee defences IIRC, though that's a matter for pistoleers). I certainly agree about getting melee mitigation 1 though.
The reason I stress higher Melee Def and Def Vs. then Pistoleers is 1) Because of our Weaknesses and 2) Because of our Pre-reqs for Commando...
We have a Melee Pre-Req...Pistoleers have a Ranged Pre-Req...Our Melee Pre-Req combined with the fact that our specials have to be used in Melee Range should equal the fact that we have more Melee Defenses then Pistoleer...
As an example, personally it doesn't make sense to me for Pistoleers to have +50 Def Vs. KD and for us to only have +5...Pistoleers never need to get into Melee Range (where KD comes up most often) but we do...Pistoleers can kite their opponents from a range that is KD safe against Melee opponents...although KD can be done via a Ranged attack for certain professions, it's used most by TKA's...And since we spend a lot of time in the 16m range for a TKA attack, we should have higher Def Vs. KD then Pistoleers...It should be a perk of our Unarmed Pre-Req as well as our higher Skill point cost...
Mr_Wibble wrote:
This is where things get all fookled. We have such high defences, as that's supposedly our strength. Never need to get into melee range? How come our knockdown only works in melee range then (only the weaker version of this works, remember). Also, I'll give you the ideal ranges for all my pistols:
Republic blaster: 0m
Scout blaster: 19m
Tangle: 10m
Striker: 20m
FWG5: 20m
DX2: 16m
Most of them (bar the republic) have large penalties to accuracy at decent range, so that's why we need good melee defence; because that's were we have any chance of hitting anything (and some people think we should even be capped in range). I'm not saying commandos shouldn't have higher defences, just that pistoleers shouldn't really be used in a defence example
Don't get me wrong...I'm in no way saying Pistoleers are over powered....
When I say that Pistoleers NEVERNEED to get in Melee range, I mean that you have other ranged specials that if wanted to, you could stay outside Melee Range...You don't HAVE TO get within 16m to use ALL of your specials...Pistoleers aren't forced into Melee range...they have specials that require Melee range, but they also have specials that work beyond 16m melee range...
If a Pistoleer was fighting a TKA, would you be more inclinced to use the Pistol KD special in Melee range, or would you kite the TKA to death?
I use Pistoleers as a prime example because they have ranged specials to allow them to stay outside that 16m range, yet they also have higher Melee and Def Vs. KD/Dizzy then Commandos...The idea range of your weapons don't mean you have to stay in those ideal ranges...Commandos on the other hand MUST be in Melee 16m range to use our specials...we can't adequetely kite an opponent (the Marksman specials that work with our weapon, aim and overpowered shot, both don't do much and overpowered shot degrades our weapons faster)...
When it comes to accuracy, Pistoleers have very decent levels of accuracy at most ranges....they are definitely better with accuracy and speed then Commandos...
So basically I tend to use Pistoleers as an example of where we should be at or be higher when it comes to Defenses...Commandos should be higher when it comes to those Melee Range defenses then a profession that has 1) Ranged Specials and 2) No Melee Pre-req...
And just to make sure this is known...when I compare the too, I never push for a NERF or Pistoleers...I push for our melee defenses to be at their level or higher...seems to make sense to me since we have the pre-req, the restrictions and we are a Hybrid profession...
Even if we had our defenses slightly higher then Pistoleer, skill point cost will basically mean that a Pistoleer can still dabble their defenses higher then a Commando can dabble in other professions...