Commando Archive
Thread: Goodbye? (Shifty123 = Fondler)
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Shifty123
Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:42 pm
#3
My problem does not stem from bugs to be worked out in beta.
My problem lies with the underlying concept present in the changes made. It is not just fixing the problems, it is completely changing the game into something else.
I will not let my elation at the fact that we are no longer worthless within the new system to realize that that new system is antithetical to the very thing that made the old system fun and unique.
I'm not telling anyone not to like/play the new system, I am saying that I don't like it.
My problem lies with the underlying concept present in the changes made. It is not just fixing the problems, it is completely changing the game into something else.
I will not let my elation at the fact that we are no longer worthless within the new system to realize that that new system is antithetical to the very thing that made the old system fun and unique.
I'm not telling anyone not to like/play the new system, I am saying that I don't like it.
Message Edited by Shifty123 on 04-10-2005 03:43 PM
Shefty Fault 
Imperial Stormtrooper
JoKen_Jash
Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:50 pm
#4
I'd hold out one more month. I'm thinking there are either two things that'll happen with the system:
The devs will listen to us and fix it now;
or:
The devs won't listen to us, push it to live, and realize they screwed the entire game up and fix it.
Cause there is no way some of the stuff in the system right now will last.
Shifty123
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:52 pm
#6
Fondler - Se'Nedi Nal-Jight in game
I didn't really post a whole lot, I was more of lurker but always a Commando...
I didn't really post a whole lot, I was more of lurker but always a Commando...
dehumaniz
Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:21 pm
#7
Well shifty shame to see a commando leave. And I have heard alot of mumblings of discontent in some of the other forums (mostly the melee professions). Alot of them have said the same thing, that the old system just needed to be tweeked, not revamped. I dont know if I agree with that. I think the old system had WAAY to many flaws to ever be really balanced. Starting with the weak , un healable mind pool. The fact that this was a quick way to incap others , and only some professions could hit it was a very bad design flaw. It made everyone want to be a profession who could attack the mind. How did they try to fix it? Well they gave ranged weapons the possibility to hit the mind via dots and poisons. Well that just made things worse.
Next the over powered melee stackers. They ruled PVP, and could do any high end PVE due to there high dmg output and high defense. Esentially they had the best of both worlds. Far from balanced if you ask me. So they went and added mobs that had hundreds of thousand hitpoints, just so these stackers had a challenge. Well that just ruined it for everyone who wasnt a stacker, because now they didnt have a chance at all to defeat these new mobs. I could go on (80 percent armor, over powered buffs,,,ect ect). But they have patched and patched , and every patch COULD not solve the problems. I think they just reached the conclusion that they could not fix a flawed disign. Thus you get the CURB. And honestly, it seems to be adding a whole new tatical appraoch to game, stripping away the mele stacker with 80 percent armor induced nightmare we are currently living in
Just my opinion.
Shifty123
Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:04 pm
#8
All the things you mention were indeed problems, but the very core mechanics of combat were not. Please, let me try to explain...
There are two types of problems in the current system - systemic and design. A systemic problem is one which stems from the underlying mechanics. A design flaw is one which stems from the inputs into these mechanics.
Systemic problems:
Mind Mechanics
DOT Mechanics
Buff Mechanics
Design problems:
Armor Strength
Profession Imbalances
Now, if you look at the systemic problems you mentioned - do you really think that we needed such a radical change to correct them? Did we need to have the whole game ported over into a sloppy and incompatible combination of EQ2, WoW, and SWG?
I think that those three issues could have been delt with much more efficiently if approached specificially rather than through a total replacement of the live system. Not only could we have had the CU much sooner, but there would be a hell of a lot fewer new issues introduced into the system.
In short, I do not disagree with your assessment that the game needed certain changes, but I do think that the changes needed were far fewer than those introduced.
Do I like the new health system? Sure, I like it, but it could be better.
Do I like the new profession changes? I haven't tested them (at the higher levels, but they look very good.
Do I like the new armor system? Yup.
Do I like the new buff mechanics? Yes sir.
What I do not like is this new con system that FORCES you to play a certain way. I do not like that my professsion decisions are marginalized to make me nothing more than my weapon and my level (and then doesn't consider, no pun intended, my equipped weapon).
In the old system, a HUGE part of the gameplay was how well you used your aquired skills - knowing your template, its strengths, and its weakness. In the new system, sure your skills can make a small difference, but if you are going up against a purple, you are going to die, sorry, some artificial modifier says so. It's simply too much of a change in too many ways.
Of all the people I knew, not one looked forward to the CURB more than myself... now, I am the one most vehemently opposed to its design and implementation.
As I said, if onve it goes live, the very few of my friends that will stay can convince me it is still fun, I may come back. However, the main reason I played this game was because it was unlike others games in the MMO genre. There are plenty of great Star Wars games out there, but the unique nature of this one appealed to me. If that is changed, then there is no reason for me to continue with Star Wars: Galaxies.
There are two types of problems in the current system - systemic and design. A systemic problem is one which stems from the underlying mechanics. A design flaw is one which stems from the inputs into these mechanics.
Systemic problems:
Mind Mechanics
DOT Mechanics
Buff Mechanics
Design problems:
Armor Strength
Profession Imbalances
Now, if you look at the systemic problems you mentioned - do you really think that we needed such a radical change to correct them? Did we need to have the whole game ported over into a sloppy and incompatible combination of EQ2, WoW, and SWG?
I think that those three issues could have been delt with much more efficiently if approached specificially rather than through a total replacement of the live system. Not only could we have had the CU much sooner, but there would be a hell of a lot fewer new issues introduced into the system.
In short, I do not disagree with your assessment that the game needed certain changes, but I do think that the changes needed were far fewer than those introduced.
Do I like the new health system? Sure, I like it, but it could be better.
Do I like the new profession changes? I haven't tested them (at the higher levels, but they look very good.
Do I like the new armor system? Yup.
Do I like the new buff mechanics? Yes sir.
What I do not like is this new con system that FORCES you to play a certain way. I do not like that my professsion decisions are marginalized to make me nothing more than my weapon and my level (and then doesn't consider, no pun intended, my equipped weapon).
In the old system, a HUGE part of the gameplay was how well you used your aquired skills - knowing your template, its strengths, and its weakness. In the new system, sure your skills can make a small difference, but if you are going up against a purple, you are going to die, sorry, some artificial modifier says so. It's simply too much of a change in too many ways.
Of all the people I knew, not one looked forward to the CURB more than myself... now, I am the one most vehemently opposed to its design and implementation.
As I said, if onve it goes live, the very few of my friends that will stay can convince me it is still fun, I may come back. However, the main reason I played this game was because it was unlike others games in the MMO genre. There are plenty of great Star Wars games out there, but the unique nature of this one appealed to me. If that is changed, then there is no reason for me to continue with Star Wars: Galaxies.
lalaboy
Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:20 pm
#9
The level system isn't a level system. I mean there's still freedom where you can create a unique template. The level system is designed for PVE. I saw a level 12 fighting a level 2 today on TC and there wasn't a big difference. That's just they're way of making it so that npc's have different levels between same species and so that people can't solo extremely high level npc's. It's nota PVP level it's mainly a PVE level. On a side note, a Master Pikeman would always be able to beat a Novice Brawler, so a certain PVP level system has always been present, just not apparent.
Shifty123
Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:54 am
#10
Well guys, it's been a long fun ride...
I have been with this game since day 3 and a Commando since the first few months. I have dealt with every blow seffered by the players of this game, knowing that some day, it would get better. When the CURB was presented to us, it became the light at the end of that tunnel and I was ecstatic as many of us were.
Unfortunately, after playing the CU, it is far from what I expected...
I awaited a rebalance our professions, and that it is.
I awaited a rebalance of buffs and armor, and that it is as well.
What I did not expect or desire was a complete shift from a game where anyone can create a unique template that would drasticly alter your abilities to fit your play style. I did not expect to be torn from a world where everyone was restricted only by their knowledge of their enemy and of their on ability. What I did not expect, was that after the CURB, I would be nothing more than a level and a fancy looking gun.
In my honest opinion, all of the things that made this game unique and interesting - a departure from the level grind tedium of the typical MMO - have been removed and replaced by a cookie-cutter MMO underpinning. The only thing left for me to love in this game is the Star Wars theme, and I think there are much better Star Wars games out there.
I have canceled my account so that it will not auto-renew in two days time and allow my money to render silent and unintentional support for these changes. If I learn from my friends that these changes to a level based game have been dropped, then I'll be back, otherwise it has been fun playing the most fun profession in this game...
I have been with this game since day 3 and a Commando since the first few months. I have dealt with every blow seffered by the players of this game, knowing that some day, it would get better. When the CURB was presented to us, it became the light at the end of that tunnel and I was ecstatic as many of us were.
Unfortunately, after playing the CU, it is far from what I expected...
I awaited a rebalance our professions, and that it is.
I awaited a rebalance of buffs and armor, and that it is as well.
What I did not expect or desire was a complete shift from a game where anyone can create a unique template that would drasticly alter your abilities to fit your play style. I did not expect to be torn from a world where everyone was restricted only by their knowledge of their enemy and of their on ability. What I did not expect, was that after the CURB, I would be nothing more than a level and a fancy looking gun.
In my honest opinion, all of the things that made this game unique and interesting - a departure from the level grind tedium of the typical MMO - have been removed and replaced by a cookie-cutter MMO underpinning. The only thing left for me to love in this game is the Star Wars theme, and I think there are much better Star Wars games out there.
I have canceled my account so that it will not auto-renew in two days time and allow my money to render silent and unintentional support for these changes. If I learn from my friends that these changes to a level based game have been dropped, then I'll be back, otherwise it has been fun playing the most fun profession in this game...
Shifty123
Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:52 am
#11
My concerns don't lie with PvP as I don't do a whole lot of it because my computer is too old and I usually only get about 15 frames (cumulative frame count) through out the whole fight in the larger battles that are my preference.
My concern comes from the way they are artificially gating the content. If they don't want a particulare mob soloable, then they should simply adjust that mobs stats in relation to the now balanced top tier of player potential.
I agree with most that do not think it should be possible for one or two people to solo certain things, but I don't agree that they should not be able to because it is artificially forced to be impossible. The mob they are attacking should in fact be difficult!
I don't understand the need that so many MMORPG developers feel to artificially gate content and limit players. We want to be challenged, yes, but we also want to be free and function in a consistent game world. Is that too much to ask? I know it can be done - its just a question of willingness.
My concern comes from the way they are artificially gating the content. If they don't want a particulare mob soloable, then they should simply adjust that mobs stats in relation to the now balanced top tier of player potential.
I agree with most that do not think it should be possible for one or two people to solo certain things, but I don't agree that they should not be able to because it is artificially forced to be impossible. The mob they are attacking should in fact be difficult!
I don't understand the need that so many MMORPG developers feel to artificially gate content and limit players. We want to be challenged, yes, but we also want to be free and function in a consistent game world. Is that too much to ask? I know it can be done - its just a question of willingness.
Dextrix
Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:30 am
#12
So with all these great idea's in you'r head and the CU still not outa the box yet you quit?
63 post's and you just registerd in 05?
I think if you loved this proff so much or the game, you would have been more active on its direction
rather than bailing out right before it get's good. Believe it or not its going to be good imho.
oh
/wavesgoodbye
JoKen_Jash
Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:43 am
#13
Shifty123 wrote:
My concerns don't lie with PvP as I don't do a whole lot of it because my computer is too old and I usually only get about 15 frames (cumulative frame count) through out the whole fight in the larger battles that are my preference.
My concern comes from the way they are artificially gating the content. If they don't want a particulare mob soloable, then they should simply adjust that mobs stats in relation to the now balanced top tier of player potential.
I agree with most that do not think it should be possible for one or two people to solo certain things, but I don't agree that they should not be able to because it is artificially forced to be impossible. The mob they are attacking should in fact be difficult!
I don't understand the need that so many MMORPG developers feel to artificially gate content and limit players. We want to be challenged, yes, but we also want to be free and function in a consistent game world. Is that too much to ask? I know it can be done - its just a question of willingness.
The levelling system is indeed the major, gamebreaking flaw in the system that I can guarantee you won't last long after it goes live. To put it simply: The level system simply DOES NOT WORK.
You will never, ever be able to kill a krayt again, your group simply won't get a high enough level to be able to counter the damage modifier (probably something like 10x comparing a level 60 some-odd group to a level 350 mob). There won't be any mando armor anymore because no one will survive the mobs in the complex.
The devs just have yet to realize how amazingly bad the level system is yet, because no one's tried killing krayts, or any super-high level mobs. They'd have to be amazingly ignorant to keep the system.
So this is what we, and every other tester on TC should be aiming for: Getting the devs to know that we need a complete (not partial, toned down level modifiers are still modifiers) removal of the level system. Once we've done that, the CU will work.
EDIT: W00t! 400 posts! I'm a pilot!
Message Edited by JoKen_Jash on 04-11-2005 10:44 AM
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