Commando Archive
Thread: More on the commando change
Sometimes repitition can be a good thing.
It's such a beautiful idea, make Flame Throwers a short range weapon, no extra damage to rifles, and incurring no extra damage from melee. Make Heavy Acid Rifle a long range weapon, analogous to rifle. We are master marksmen, after all. And juice up the pistol to have a special and allow the acid rifle to have a DOT for acid damage.
and for the love of Holocron, please please please reduce the timer on the specials.
it would seem to me, that if anyone pulled this weapon to PVP, there should be a %percent of wound chance for the user since it could possibly exlpode in his hands. specifically at rance less then 2m's
so people can counter the use of these things, by rushing the commando.
Noitcopa said:
Further the problem is that the Acid Rifle and FT are the SAME weapon, except the Acid Rifle has no DOT and hits for less. There MUST be a differenciation between these. Make the Acid Specials work at 64 and give THEM the 2.5 modifier. Then keep the FT the way it is BUT fix the modifier to what it was and make it not appear to be a melee weapon. Fix that and I'd be happy.
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I would like this added to my previous post.
Yes, that's essentially accurate, Holo.
I gotkilled a lot yesterday, thinking at first that the mobs had gotten tougher. Then I started noticing oddities like "You are too close to your target to use a ranged weapon" and thought, Hmmm, I don't recall seeing that message before.
Then I also noticed that if I use my special flame single, and immediately give a command via /say to my faction troopers, the /say is delayed by the weapon delay. In other words, my command to my faction troopers doesn't appear or occur until after 10 or more seconds go by, which also got me and 2 of my troopers killed pretty quickly in PvE.
In my mind, Commandos are supposed to be close support combatants, and their training in unarmed should mean they can take a mellee hit pretty well due to that training, regardless of what they have equiped as a weapon at that moment. Otherwise, there seems little reason for the unarmed training.
That being said, there are tactical workarounds for the current (today's) system. Like making a macro that unarms us, then we usea stun on our target, then equip the flamethrower, use the special, then run like hell.
But this isn't really what I'd hoped to use as a tactic for a commando.
Even with macros, the fact is simply that our best attack is close ranged, and currently, our biggest exposure to a fast death is also close ranged, and now everything, including /say commands, are being delayed by the weapon special delay.
It is quite the conundrum.
Lodacai
The launcher pistol still works, but of course, it's not really a heavy weapon as much as it is a pistol that does blast damage and gives HW experience points.
For Holo's sake: I use the FT in two ways. I either "snipe" from maximum range while kneeling (64m has no penalty to accuracy, but 50m has a significant penalty.) This doesn't work well in groups, since everybody else tends to be closer in. Or I use the flame specials. I use those specials more and more, and when I do, I tend to get attacked, even in a group with a bunch of pets running around.
I use the HAR only when mobs are highly resistant to heat. But I've stopped doing that now that my flame skill has increased, since HAR skill doesn't improve speed, and the flame DOT ignores the resists anyway (which should be fixed.)
I use the other heavy weapons for fun, because they don't work terribly well.
In short, our weapons are "weird". The flamethrower has worked at long range in the past, but seemed like it should be short range only. The heavy acid rifle has worked only at close range and is considered worthless, and the heavy support weapons and grenades are all very inaccurate and expensive. Finally, the launcher pistol requires the user to advance in pistoleer to get any high end damage out of it.
Based on that, the damage multiplier for FT and HAR is a pretty awful thing. I'd much rather have FT's ability to hit things at long range removed, the DOTs nerfed to pay attention to armor in order to decrease our abilities than to have us treated as a long range weapon, because we're really really not using long range weapons.
Now, when we use a heavy support weapon (HPBC, rocket launcher, acid stream launcher, etc.) I'd be okay with a damage multiplier during the warmup and cooldown time. It would hurt, but it would make some sense. But giving a damage multiplier to us for using our close range weapons... well, it hurts too much.
I agree with Rolancor. You have the general description correct, Holo.
The issue is that in order to use the specials we need to get close, but you cannot get close and expect to live. Except in the case where we can one or two-hit kill an NPC, they will switch to melee and incap us before we can get a third shot off.
In group situations that may not be terrible, as we can still attach DoTs which can be of great benefit to the group...but it's not all that much fun for the Commando...and solo the Commando is left attacking only creatures that won't DeathBlow.
I suppose that is a bit overly bleak an assessment..as I have had some success with using my flamethrower once and switching to some non-penalized weapon, and that has worked pretty well. Why do that? Because the DoT attacks are very useful. But it's a strange strategy because itmeans that I'm shunning the flamethrower when I'm in ideal range. It also means that I have no need for the default attack, just the DoT.
END THE EXTRA DAMAGE NOW!!!!!!!!!
Holocron wrote:
OK, bear with me a bit here because I am still ramping up on exactly what the issue is (I don't play a commando myself).
The way things are at the moment, post-patch:
- Commando weapons operate at up to 64m. The default loop is slow but pretty powerful in terms of raw damage per hit. (I don't know how they are in terms of DPS--?)
- Commando weapon specials are limited to <16m.
- The commando weapons take pretty significant accuracy hits when used <16m.
- But the commando specials have significant accuracy bonuses which make them very accurate at <16m.
- Commandos take ranged weapon defensive penalties when fighting vs melee, resulting in 2x damage to them.
The way you thought things were going to be:
- Commando weapons would operate at up to 64m, but their strength is at short range for both specials AND default attack.
- Commandoswould not do extra damage to ranged weapon wielders.
- Commandos would not take defensive penalties versus melee
Is that accurate? I just need solid info so I can discuss this with the combat designer.
Yes this is accurate.
I think the main issue here was we were told by Q-3PO that our weapons are suppose to be "extreme close range weapons." If this is the case why should we suffer a melee penality?
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=6688&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
DarthWicket wrote:i dont care what happens to commado as long as they dont do 2.5x damage to rifleman with thier flamethrowers...
and as a master rifleman, hearing about commandos complaining about dying to to 2x damage... hehehe welcome to my world, except i get hit for more!
Except you have skills you can use from a distance. You can fire your headshot 3 at a mob from 64 meters out. You don't have to wait a mandatory 15 seconds before doing ANYTHING again. You have a cover skill that allows you not to be seen when shooting. You spent less skill points to master rifleman than a master commando as well. You also get an AR3 gun where as our primary weapons have no armor piercing (which makes no sense at all).
All i think most of us are asking for is a resolve to the 2.5 melee damage we take since we HAVE to get within 16 meters to use our specials. Before this patch i was able to take on mountain squills no problem. Sure they con'd yellow to me but if i lit them on fire ran away and waited my 15 seconds to stim myself and change to an fwg5 (heat weaknesses) i used to be able to take them. My first attempt at one post patch was an instant 2 hit incap with hits for 700 and 400 straight to the mind pool.
Rather than this 2.5 melee damage penalty i would rather see a -25 terrain negotiation penalty. After all they are supposed to be HEAVY weapons. I can't remember any game where the tank using the heaviest weapons could move like a scout(if you took the scout exploration skills).
Thank you for promptly taking care of this, and hopefully it can get resolved sooon as our specials are no longer worth using.
F
Ok all the whiner rifleman need to go back to safe confines of the shallow end of the pool. Your 2.5x damage from melee is uncool, no doubt, but you are ranged weapon users. Commandos have to go in close and personal. So while your class is looking for a bush to hide under and do it's sneaky best not to be seen the commando HAS to go up within 16m to be effective with the one weapon that is of any use at all theFT.
The Commando hasto stand in and take punishment for 8 to 15 seconds if we use a special while the rifleman is able to go undercover and fire conceal shot. Sure the mob might go aggro on you (which makes no sense. If the NPC cant see you why can his buddies?) but at least you are 64m out and can run, change weapons, and kite the badguy.
A 2x melee damage on what is suppose to be a class of fighter who is as the guide says "able to control a large section of the battlefield singlehandedly" is outrageous and out of character. If we use a special and change weapons to say a pistol (like riflemen can) we still suffer from the melee damage modifier for the whole 8 to 15 seconds. The modifier makes very little sense for the rifleman and absolutely no sense for th Commando.
That's pretty much what I expected, and believe is fair, Holo.