Commando Archive

---

tacwraith wrote:

This BS notion that our specials are built into the weapons is ludicrious. There is ZERO advantage to be forced to switch weapons to KD or Blind or DOT compared to other proffessions that can KD blind and stun and dizzy and bleed and snare and root and slow attack speed you without switching their weapon. And when it comes down to it, its DAMAGE that rules a fight not how well you can debuff the other guy... cause while you apply the miserable short lasting, unnoticable effect of most debuffs (especially blind) te other guy is nailing your health down hard.

There is ZERO advantage to having ALL of our weapons be ENERGY based with miserably low AND subject to resist elemental damage. Bear in mind that ALL our weapons also indicates that the proffession with the MOST weapon types is having these problems.

So enough of this crap.

Give commando adamage special at novice. same damage modifier as improved leg shot. Why have improved leg shot at novice? BECAUSE ALL OUR WEAPONS HAVE THE LOWEST DPS IN THE FUGGING GAME. Besides, its not like someone will take up novice commando to get improved legshot at novice, with the same skillpoints they can get it from carbineer.

In the master box give us a special attack that does no extra damage BUT that guarantees a weapon's effect STICKS.

Once that is taken care of we need to switch to the damage type of the weapons in our arsenal.

Its a no brainer really. Flamer heat, acid rifle/launcher is acid, lightning cannon is electricity, particle cannon can remain energy, launcher pistol kinetic, proton rifle make it COLD damage. rocket launcher kinetic

as far as the effects go they need to be changed too.

see,any other ranged proffession can havethe specials we currently have. So why not give commando accessto the EXOTIC effects?

LauncherPistol= long duration Intimidate

Particle Cannon= weaken

Lightning Cannon= removes powerups from target's weapon (think: EMP hits the powerup and shorts it out)

Acid Launcher= basic armor break

rocket launcher= KD+stun (cmon the gun does no damage)

---

No way. Mabye give us a kinetic weapon and a master-level version of each lesser weapon, but, damn, you are asking for way too much.

Once they get our AoE damage working like it should be, we will be hot stuff on the battlefields.

IMOthey should just fix the AOE, the pup, nades and give more power to the master box and our lesser wepions and give us a non AOE weapionthen see how that go, if it sucks then we should call for a revamp

if our AOE works we are the HIGHEST damage in the game when combatting 2 targets, this only increases as the number of targets increase.

The ability to hit multiple targets for 1900+ in 1 attack is uber.

Beleive it or not, but commanods will be very useful in combat once our AOE is fixed.

After playing for about 6.5 hours with working AOE i know about that wich i speak.

we are not meant to to WTFOMG uber against 1 target... Thats rifleman.

we are meant to be uber damage dealers because wwe can hit EVERYONE on the battlefield in 1 attack.

Accept the new role of Commando as an AOE damage dealer... or be something else.

your tilting at windmills here.


HOWEVER, we need a master level rocket launcher with radius AOE 100% damage (like the LBC) and KD that does kinetic damage.

The RL needs to take less feed mechanisms so we can krayt (or power cell) and gorax (or casings) enhance them.

dual enhanceable kinetic weapon with KD and 100% radius AOE at Master would be nice.

Everyone here has good points, just for the record.

AoE will greatly boost our entire profession, but under no circumstances should it not be 100%...if it is, then we aren't a damage dealer. Why? I can do roughly the same damage with my PFT with overcharge shot (which not only eats your weapon more, but has a warm up timer), as I can do with a carbine using full auto area and fanshot.

The difference...they can do 100% AoE, and aren't damage dealers, we can't. Its moot point saying that we can combine our AoE with other specials for two reasons:

1) We will have to dabble for them; they aren't in the profession

2) That answers the other half of our role...tactically flexible, but does not answer our damage dealer half.


If we get 100% AoE, and can do that below-average damage to everyone, any time, any where, and with our utility...its nothing more than a step in the right direction for 3 reasons:

1) We can't be solely AoE and draw all our strength from that; that is primarily crowd control -- plus we'll be nothing more than a fancy fanshot on a profession level

2) Not all our weapons are AoE, and hence really do not bring damage to the table - why we need front loaded weapons/abilities (specials)

3) Commando would be worthless vs single targets (one trick pony sentimentality...AoE and nothing more)


This is why, if we must have front loaded damage, Area damage, and built in utility we need a balance and compromise:

1) Some AoE, Some front loaded, and our states built in as they are already.

2) Damage specials, to bring our damage on par or above non-damage dealer professions

3) Better consumables (the grenades) which also add to our flexibility, in conjunction to the built in states

4) The Area weapons balanced as they are now, but not in a profession-wide scale. Rather, lower damages will be on innate AoE weapons, to make them at or above the fanshot capability (think around pistol-carbine damage levels), but bring in the tactical flexibility to the table, and would properly balance out with our damage special. In effect, what our profession is NOW, but only in a single aspect, rather than the whole thing

5) Front loaded weapons, which are the same damages as right now, or higher (think 900-1000, same for rifles and high level HW's now). These in conjunction with our damage special will bring the flexibility of built in states, but also bring us to the level that other professions enjoy too.

In essence, a true hybrid and a damage dealer that is tactically flexible. We need what tacwraith is pushing, as well as what tuscanspeed is saying. Being an AoE damage dealer isn't flexible - only within a ranged template, nothing more. We need a cross between the two, to achieve what the Combat Upgrade promised us. This will perserve what we have so far (being defined by weapons), but add to it and make it more stable. Re-organize what we have already. If we go for the traditional route of becoming like riflemen, then EVERYTHING up to this point has been for naught in my opinion.

If we're all damage with high AoE over that of AoE specials, with built in states, we're overpowered. If we're nothing but AoE, as we are now, we're underpowered. We need a compromise that would bring the profession in line to what was originally promised, and being fun and balanced to play. We can't have uber AoE and uber specials, our AoE needs to be on the level as it is in the game (hey they broke it when they tried messing with the percentages), -but- remain commando's due to its flexibility. Our thirst to blow stuff up, and be a reckoning force would come out in consumables (more flexibility) and front-loaded weaponry. We should be feared for our multitude of weapons, and the way we can use em...not be confined to all AoE that would leave us underpowered, as the -entire- profession would have to be in line with the damage ratings that of AoE specials. We are at that right now, but with the flexibility that is only partially let lose.

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-03-2005 11:28 PM

amen.

see one of my old threads where we would get our old consumable rocket launcher in a long timer as our front loaded damage slammer and our other weapons delegated to combat-debuff related roles.

But SOE has proven completely unwilling to listen or re-code our proffession since launch. So i've given up on a true solution and just hope for a band-aid that will let us be a combat proffession instead of a glorified marksman.

what hedd said!

There is a difference however...a major difference!

What template are you in? I can outdamage riflemen all the time, because of both my enhanced PFT and my carbineer damage specials. Can a normal commando outdamage or come close to a normal rifleman? Can a melee-commando? Most likely, nope...if both were going for pure damage.

Its weird, but the case Im making wouldn't really affect those of us who are in a ranged template, but would affect those who are in tacwraith's shoes...where his damage special is right now ranged shot. We are damage dealers because of the template we chose, not because of the main profession we're in.

I say this because I have seen with my unenhanced PFT's I can hit for around 1200-1300 dmg with overcharge shot. With my elite carbine, I can hit for the same using fanshot/full auto single. I don't think this is coincidental. Now the major problem here, is that this is our ENTIRE profession. Carbineer can do that damage, and then 1600-1700 damage using improved legshot - we can't.

Now, the counter arguement to this would be...well we can do damage to all the targets, and combine it with other specials. Thats only part of our flexibility, with stacking in our template. What about the flexibility we should have within our profession? Carbineer sure has it, and their secondary role is that of being a medium ranged area damage specialist. They don't have to dabble out for the 1600-1700 damage, and still can do the damage we do!

The major point here, is that we need something that will allow commandos who are not in a ranged template (where we certainly excel, and the CU lived up to its name, especially once AoE works again) or still grinding fullfill the role of being a tactically flexible damage dealer. As I said, this wouldn't really impact those of us who are already in a good ranged template; rather it would open the possibility of trying something different, but effectively.

My main arguement to the devs is, have AoE balanced as it is now...but don't confine our entire profession to it, because you lose flexibility...as well get bogged down in a no win situation with balance. We'll always be either underpowered or overpowered. Right now we're underpowered outside a ranged template, but balanced inside. If we had AoE working 100%, our weapons that do AoE as they are now, and had it along with damage specials...we would be overpowered in a ranged template, but balanced outside - that is why, if we are to get specials (not needed if we get high damage consumables), we need our AoE weapons to be lower in damage to properly balance that would fit the current way AoE specials are balanced. But we wouldn't be underpowered, as we would have the flexibility to switch to a front loaded weapon and dish out the damage as we ought to be doing. See where Im getting at?

Just plopping in a special would make us overpowered once AoE starts working, leaving us be will leave us underpowered. We need our weapons to be re-organized for balance, as well as flexibility. We could function very well, if we had the tactical flexibility of choosing to do a spray damage type, and then switch to clobber a single target. Isn't that pretty much what the CU Documents pitched to us? Where we were a force to be reckoned with, but flexible on the battle fields? It combines what we have now, while still fitting into that dream.

Message Edited by StarNick on 09-03-2005 11:56 PM

Rifleman and BH can easily outdamage your AOE im sorry to tell you. And do it from 64m to boot.

The 2 commando aoe weapons with 'highest' damage are the plasma flamer and the lightning cannon.

Lightning cannon will be significantly outdamaged thats a given fact.

Plasma flamer is the only aoe weapon whose max damage/dps comes close to the max damage/dps of rifleman weapons.

but is 25m range. cannot be powered up. cannot be crafted with accuracy enchancers. its got a fire dot that ticks once per 10 seconds avg for 250ish damage.

compared to non-cert rifles and/or master rifleman/master bh cert weapons ... who can shoot from 64m... fire faster (powerups while commando is stuck to just its innate mods and skilltapes) and many non-cert weapons have MUCH higher elemental damage than the plasma flamethrower.

Result? a rifleman usingany ranged aoe shotwill be doing around 700 damage to each target in cone.. from 64m every2 seconds (speed powerup). The commando will be doing 1100 damage from 25m every 5 seconds (timer). 700X2 = 1400 and from 64m.

Now introduce the krayt/powercell boosts and slices and you'll notice that commando weapons get left behind in performance..especially the plasma flamer. and yet commando is still limited to 25m with an aoe attack with a rather sad to-stick rate for the fire dot and will always have higher ham cost and cannot have the great accuracy boosts (which = more damage) that other weapons can be crafted with.