Commando Archive

After sending an idea proposal to the Devs concerning Tacwraith's deviously simple, yet very commando-esque idea of including a Master Commando "Passive Armour Break"...where all commando weapons basically would have a AP-like quality, and pass through armour.

To balance of course, we'd either have to take limited AoE, or a limited passive armour break (where its not total breakage, and some damage is mitigated). Both may work well together but on paper it sounds a bit unbalanced at this time.

With that in mind...what do you folks rather have?

An armour break that would allow us to do more damage?

Mass AoE where we'll do (and if you all want this, which we're currently wanting...Im pushing for 75-100% AoE or equal damage as that of AoE specials) significant damage to a large area of targets?

The former will most likely curtail limited AoE (less splash damage), but massive heavy damage (at least double against armoured mobs) while the latter would be similiar damage to everyone else...but the ability to inflict that damage on many targets within the blast radius at once (crowd damage).

The former may be more commando esque (Rocket Launchers punching through armour, HARs and PFTs melting it, etc)...while the latter is too, but (in my opinion) a bit less since we'll be doing comparable damage to the target. So which do you guys prefer?

Personally I would take a lowering of the AOEif it was working as it should be(if it still means I can apply my dirty smuggler specials to all and sundry) in favour of a heavier punch to one target. I love the idea of my LBC acting like the Particle Prjection Cannon out of Battlemech and blasting a hole through someones armour

Well if it was an ability, most likely some form of the AoE would still be in...but it could be limited and still be acceptable to the community. Basically making this passive, represents the Hvy weapon nature of the commando.

An example I gave to the devs...


With a passive ability like this...our Rocket Launcher will blow the our target to hell and back

Without it, and with just good AoE...we'll do the same damage as a pistol can but just be able to do it to 5 targets rather than one.

If the armour break was tied to weapons it makes a compelling argument to up the rocket launcher to Master Commando as it fits sooo well with an armour break

As usual it depends. lol

What AOE are we talking about? The one that doesn't work currently and splashes through walls? The one that is a measly 10% splash damage? The suggested one with full splash damage (just like the other professions AOE specials)? Our specials are our weapons. Our special is AOE. Why should our special do less than another professions AOE special?

I know that you are pushing for boosting up the AOE splash damage to 75-100% levels. But understanding where SOE plans to set the "as intended" splash levels is really important to deciding.

I think the armor break idea is a brilliant idea. Especially if it works on TURRETS! [Think of our role]. The idea of having it only at master level is a bit of a concern, because if SOE is suggesting we "trade" our AOE for armor break, we will have no specials (remember AOE is built in) except at Master.

So that makes me think that the armor break passive ability at Master Commando needs to REDUCE the AOE effect (if even that), but we would need to have AOE effect in full force at Tier 1-4.

And the more I write, why is this an either or situation? We don't have the proper DPS for the heavy hitter 5 rating we are supposed to have. We will still be underpowered in tiers 1-4. This armor break idea "fixes" it somewhat and gets us on an equal footing with other master professions. This is a fix to a problem, not a gift we need to "pay" for.

It only sounds overpowered on paper I think. But this is a great thread topic. I'm looking forward to the discussion.

---

StarNick wrote:
Well if it was an ability, most likely some form of the AoE would still be in...but it could be limited and still be acceptable to the community. Basically making this passive, represents the Hvy weapon nature of the commando.

An example I gave to the devs...


With a passive ability like this...our Rocket Launcher will blow the our target to hell and back

Without it, and with just good AoE...we'll do the same damage as a pistol can but just be able to do it to 5 targets rather than one.

---

Passive all the way if that is the way we can have it mate. That is what Ihave always been hoping for with Commando for the past couple years. Our weapons should not be doing the same damage as a BH with a 4 in offense using a pistol. I want to nuke the bastage so hard that the melee are having to taunt to get the aggro back rather than doing average damage to say 5 targets at once when a carbineer can be doing comparable damage using their improved full-auto area. Makes our use of any AoE attacks null with our AoE weapons if we can'tconcentrate the damage (i.e. shaping charges). Should blow a target to hell and back with minimal AoE if we are stuck with all AoE weapons. We do still need an Adv RL and an Adv LP. The passive armor break goes through and I will be one happy camper if we arew truly nuking a target and not a detriment to a group because of drawing so much aggro.... oh an I would be forced to buy the person who had the ideaa beer

Message Edited by Knightcrest on 05-12-2005 06:27 PM

• Rocket Launcher


• Launcher Pistol


• HAR


• Acid Beam


• Particle Beam (If it can pass through multiple targets, it can sure as heck pass through armor)


• Proton Rifle

Full AE, but no Armor Break

• Flamethrowers


• Lightning Beam Cannon


• Grenades

If we took this approach of select weapons getting the innate armor break skills it'd make our profession more interesting and diverse, in addition to creating different reasons to dabble in various commando lines (which is a good thing).

My proposal here would be that weapons that logically wouldn't punch through armor, but would pretty much zap everything in a given area retain the ability, at the expense of not being able to punch through armor.

Conversely, the heavy armor-piercing weapons would opperate as expected, punching through and doing a lot of damage to the main target, while causing a bit of collateral damage as well.

This makes commando more diverse, so you have good reason to use different weapons in different situations. Surrounded by enemies pack together? Use an area-affect weapon to great effect. Need to take out a well-armored (or high hitpoint) target? Pull out an AP weapon and hit 'em where it hurts. This would make it so the concept of our weapons being our specials actually makes sense standing alone, since we'd in effect have "AE specials" and "AP specials".

And for purely naming convention proposals, I propose calling any armor-break'esque ability we getArmor Piercing.

Edit: And for the record, I'm coming from the view that this "armor break" ability will be something that's applied on a 'per-shot with a given weapon' basis, rather than being a state effect that's applied. Otherwise, we'd simply apply the state while everyone else goes to town on the target, out-damaging us yet again (not to mention the balance issues with being able to apply an AE armor break that sticks to whole crowds with a single shot).

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 05-12-2005 04:44 PM

Message Edited by Raptor2k1 on 05-12-2005 06:02 PM

I was about to write a full post, but Raptor2k1 just posted the exact same thoughts I have. I /concur and /salute you sir!