Combat Medic Archive
Thread: MCM Vs Jedi and High Level Mobs
If we could turn the flame fest off please people. These aren't the Jedi or BH forums and I hate it when interesting posts get deleted because of flaming.I’d just like to answer some of TatterSalad’s points from the deleted posts in what I hope is a reasonable way.
"Unfortunately I didn't get to read the post before it got deleted. But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. They put more time and effort into achieving what they have. That is not to say that it doesn't take time and effort to achieve a full template non-jedi char. However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups. I think this topic would have never been brought up if Krayts and NS didn't drop the highly needed pearls/crystals for their weapons. Reason being is that because their are so many non-jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for a jedi to kill one and loot the items they need. This forces the jedi to purchase the crystals/pearls from the non-jedi at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons."
I can understand that Jedi need the drops form the Krayts for their sabres. However in my experience when we’ve organised krayt hunts with our guild the vast majority of people camping the kraits have been Jedi who want the pearls. Before I was an MCM I was a master ranger and I admit I would go over to the krayt graveyard to hunt krayts with a view to selling the tissues or pearls. The whole of the ranger template is geared towards being able to hunt high level mobs solo and sell what they drop or what I can harvest. I was master ranger master carbineer and with that template I didn’t even have enough points to get novice medic. If there were Jedi there hunting krayts I would wait until they selected a krayt and then hunt a different one. The problem was I would get hate tells telling me to get lost quite or a few times or Jedi trying to poach my kill. I invested a lot of time into becoming master ranger and a lot of my skill points were held up in master scout. The whole template was geared towards one thing - hunting , a master ranger is supposed to be a better hunter than any other profession, not a bigger damage dealer but a better hunter of animals.
"The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's. When I jedi sees a full templated non-jedi do things like solo krayts, etc. It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind."
A Jedi has not necessarily put in more effort than any other template. I know people who started when I did and in the same time I have mastered a number of different professions all requiring different skills and playing styles and none of which can be mastered by using macros or AFK grinding.
The objective of being a Jedi from what I have read is not to be self sufficient, that is why you are given an alt, it is your alt that makes your money, your Jedi is a warrior. The reason why a Jedi is 1.5x more powerful is for them to make a difference in the GCW. Anyone you see hunting high level mobs probably has a double master in one ranged profession plus another support profession (like MCM) and another tree in one other. We are constantly changing our skill bases to find one that we are most comfortable with and as such have probably put in as much effort as a Jedi has.
"Bottom line non-Jedi should be able to do some things that a full template Jedi can do, but soloing higher level creatures/npc's should not be one of them. But I would also say that having a group of 2 should be equivalent to taking down higher end mobs that Jedi can currently solo. I know I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is what it is."
My bottom line is that any combat profession should be able to bring down I high level mob/npc if they have the skill and patience, they may not be able to do it as quick as a Jedi but they can still do it. Your success is not based on your template but on how well you know your template. MCM requires you to get within 10m of your target to apply your rebuffs and 35m to apply your DoTs. This requires skill and timing and with krayts all too often end up with a trip to the cloner.
"One last thing, I don't want to hear that being jedi is all about "playing the roll" of the saga. Most players don't become jedi to "play the saga role." They do it because they know with a little hard work and dedication they can have something that is supposed to be a step above the rest."
I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it.
Peace an' love y'all
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-13-2005 01:47 PM
mickolakis wrote:
If we could turn the flame fest off please people. These aren't the Jedi or BH forums and I hate it when interesting posts get deleted because of flaming.I’d just like to answer some of TatterSalad’s points from the deleted posts in what I hope is a reasonable way.
"Unfortunately I didn't get to read the post before it got deleted. But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. They put more time and effort into achieving what they have. That is not to say that it doesn't take time and effort to achieve a full template non-jedi char. However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups. I think this topic would have never been brought up if Krayts and NS didn't drop the highly needed pearls/crystals for their weapons. Reason being is that because their are so many non-jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for a jedi to kill one and loot the items they need. This forces the jedi to purchase the crystals/pearls from the non-jedi at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons."
I can understand that Jedi need the drops form the Krayts for their sabres. However in my experience when we’ve organised krayt hunts with our guild the vast majority of people camping the kraits have been Jedi who want the pearls. Before I was an MCM I was a master ranger and I admit I would go over to the krayt graveyard to hunt krayts with a view to selling the tissues or pearls. The whole of the ranger template is geared towards being able to hunt high level mobs solo and sell what they drop or what I can harvest. I was master ranger master carbineer and with that template I didn’t even have enough points to get novice medic. If there were Jedi there hunting krayts I would wait until they selected a krayt and then hunt a different one. The problem was I would get hate tells telling me to get lost quite or a few times or Jedi trying to poach my kill. I invested a lot of time into becoming master ranger and a lot of my skill points were held up in master scout. The whole template was geared towards one thing - hunting , a master ranger is supposed to be a better hunter than any other profession, not a bigger damage dealer but a better hunter of animals.
"The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's. When I jedi sees a full templated non-jedi do things like solo krayts, etc. It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind."
A Jedi has not necessarily put in more effort than any other template. I know people who started when I did and in the same time I have mastered a number of different professions all requiring different skills and playing styles and none of which can be mastered by using macros or AFK grinding.
The objective of being a Jedi from what I have read is not to be self sufficient, that is why you are given an alt, it is your alt that makes your money, your Jedi is a warrior. The reason why a Jedi is 1.5x more powerful is for them to make a difference in the GCW. Anyone you see hunting high level mobs probably has a double master in one ranged profession plus another support profession (like MCM) and another tree in one other. We are constantly changing our skill bases to find one that we are most comfortable with and as such have probably put in as much effort as a Jedi has.
"Bottom line non-Jedi should be able to do some things that a full template Jedi can do, but soloing higher level creatures/npc's should not be one of them. But I would also say that having a group of 2 should be equivalent to taking down higher end mobs that Jedi can currently solo. I know I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is what it is."
My bottom line is that any combat profession should be able to bring down I high level mob/npc if they have the skill and patience, they may not be able to do it as quick as a Jedi but they can still do it. Your success is not based on your template but on how well you know your template. MCM requires you to get within 10m of your target to apply your rebuffs and 35m to apply your DoTs. This requires skill and timing and with krayts all too often end up with a trip to the cloner.
"One last thing, I don't want to hear that being jedi is all about "playing the roll" of the saga. Most players don't become jedi to "play the saga role." They do it because they know with a little hard work and dedication they can have something that is supposed to be a step above the rest."
I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it.
Peace an' love y'all
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-13-2005 01:47 PM
I got bored halfway through....Can I get the Cliff Notes???
heh
....J/k
"I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it."
Yup...thats a big problem with a lot of things. I have seen jedi whine because they are not good enough. I have also seen jedi whipe the floor with three BH's. It all depends on how you play, and partially how good your gear is. Really, a smart Jedi is 1.5x better then a smart non-Jedi, however, once in a while you get that outstanding BH/CM who takes out a rifle and tottaly owns a jedi knight w/o any problem at all. Thats just a Ebayed jedi is all...or AFK. But a Jedi....that knows his char, template, and enemy well will be much more powerfull then any other non-Jedi (like 5x more powerfull)
"But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. Theyput more time and effort into achieving what they have."
Dont confuse the amount of exp a Jedi needswith actual "Time& Effort" 
More then a few Jedi power grind their Jedi to full template in as little as 3 weeks while spending hardly any time at the actual keyboard.
However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups.
I may be misunderstanding you *but* are you implying that since most players arent Jedi that Jedi need to beable to solo? Being a Jedi doesnt stop a Jedi from grouping just like the rest of us... And with pub 20, grp visibility is getting fixed... So.... I'm not sure I understand.
Reason being is that because their are so many non-jedi Jedi and non-Jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for a jedimany players to kill one and loot the items they need want. This forces the jedi players to purchase the crystals/pearls loot from the non-jedi other players at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons.
Fixed 
I 110% agree
The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's.
This is a MMORPG. *No* player should be self-sufficient 
Besides, every Jedi has an alt. One can either make it a PvE fighting toon *or* a crafting toon to buy the expensive ass crap.
It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind.
Well, Jedi isnt a hard grind either if you dont want it to be
Yeah the new time lock village phase means you cant get a Jedi from scratch in a week or two... But once you get one it doesnt take long to level... That is if one chooses to take the fast path.
Anyway, there is no toon that is truly "great" or "self-sufficient" in SWG (in and by themselves...As it should be in a MMORPG). While us normal duel elites may solo some stuff CERTAIN Jedi templates cannot, we cannot make our own weapons, armor, food, ect ect ect. Most of the loot duel elites get has to be given to others to actually do something with or sold... Yeah, sometimes we get armor/cloth attachments and the occasional cool weapon but that is generally the exception not the rule.
Message Edited by SomeUser on 07-13-2005 11:45 PM
Vezek There should be no template that is intentionally made to be 1.5x more powerful than other templates in an MMORPG. PERIOD!
You can talk all you want about time spent grinding and blah blah blah. Everyone who has a non-jedi character, CM's included grind all day fighting stuff and dont get any credit for it whatsoever. My combat, medic, and rifle exp has been capped for over a year and there are plenty of players out there in the same situation.
mickolakis wrote:
If we could turn the flame fest off please people. These aren't the Jedi or BH forums and I hate it when interesting posts get deleted because of flaming.I’d just like to answer some of TatterSalad’s points from the deleted posts in what I hope is a reasonable way.
"Unfortunately I didn't get to read the post before it got deleted. But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. They put more time and effort into achieving what they have. That is not to say that it doesn't take time and effort to achieve a full template non-jedi char. However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups. I think this topic would have never been brought up if Krayts and NS didn't drop the highly needed pearls/crystals for their weapons. Reason being is that because their are so many non-jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for a jedi to kill one and loot the items they need. This forces the jedi to purchase the crystals/pearls from the non-jedi at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons."
I can understand that Jedi need the drops form the Krayts for their sabres. However in my experience when we’ve organised krayt hunts with our guild the vast majority of people camping the kraits have been Jedi who want the pearls. Before I was an MCM I was a master ranger and I admit I would go over to the krayt graveyard to hunt krayts with a view to selling the tissues or pearls. The whole of the ranger template is geared towards being able to hunt high level mobs solo and sell what they drop or what I can harvest. I was master ranger master carbineer and with that template I didn’t even have enough points to get novice medic. If there were Jedi there hunting krayts I would wait until they selected a krayt and then hunt a different one. The problem was I would get hate tells telling me to get lost quite or a few times or Jedi trying to poach my kill. I invested a lot of time into becoming master ranger and a lot of my skill points were held up in master scout. The whole template was geared towards one thing - hunting , a master ranger is supposed to be a better hunter than any other profession, not a bigger damage dealer but a better hunter of animals.
"The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's. When I jedi sees a full templated non-jedi do things like solo krayts, etc. It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind."
A Jedi has not necessarily put in more effort than any other template. I know people who started when I did and in the same time I have mastered a number of different professions all requiring different skills and playing styles and none of which can be mastered by using macros or AFK grinding.
The objective of being a Jedi from what I have read is not to be self sufficient, that is why you are given an alt, it is your alt that makes your money, your Jedi is a warrior. The reason why a Jedi is 1.5x more powerful is for them to make a difference in the GCW. Anyone you see hunting high level mobs probably has a double master in one ranged profession plus another support profession (like MCM) and another tree in one other. We are constantly changing our skill bases to find one that we are most comfortable with and as such have probably put in as much effort as a Jedi has.
"Bottom line non-Jedi should be able to do some things that a full template Jedi can do, but soloing higher level creatures/npc's should not be one of them. But I would also say that having a group of 2 should be equivalent to taking down higher end mobs that Jedi can currently solo. I know I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is what it is."
My bottom line is that any combat profession should be able to bring down I high level mob/npc if they have the skill and patience, they may not be able to do it as quick as a Jedi but they can still do it. Your success is not based on your template but on how well you know your template. MCM requires you to get within 10m of your target to apply your rebuffs and 35m to apply your DoTs. This requires skill and timing and with krayts all too often end up with a trip to the cloner.
"One last thing, I don't want to hear that being jedi is all about "playing the roll" of the saga. Most players don't become jedi to "play the saga role." They do it because they know with a little hard work and dedication they can have something that is supposed to be a step above the rest."
I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it.
Peace an' love y'all
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-13-2005 01:47 PM
Ok, first I just want to say I know this post is going to get deleted because, it is going to turn into an argument just like the last post that got deleted. But anyways.
As far as your first comment goes towards master ranger and pre-CU maybe the jedi were being rude to you. I don't know, I wasn't there, what I was talking about is post CU (before premium and flawless pearls were removed) was camped constantly on the server I am on by soloing non-jedi profs. This is ridiculous. What I was trying to convey is that if any prof is going to be able to solo it should be a jedi. I mean after all aren't they supposed to be 1.5x stronger than all other profs.?
You Typed:
"A Jedi has not necessarily put in more effort than any other template. I know people who started when I did and in the same time I have mastered a number of different professions all requiring different skills and playing styles and none of which can be mastered by using macros or AFK grinding."
Disagree. Just because you started your template at the same time as your buddy did and you finished at the same time has nothing to do with putting in the same amount of effort. It just means your buddy spent way way more time grinding out his char. than you did, which mean he/she put in more effort. Yes, there are some Jedi and non-Jedi profs that AFK grind. I was not one of them, so that does not pertain to me or many other jedi that play the game.
You Typed:
The objective of being a Jedi from what I have read is not to be self sufficient, that is why you are given an alt, it is your alt that makes your money, your Jedi is a warrior. The reason why a Jedi is 1.5x more powerful is for them to make a difference in the GCW. Anyone you see hunting high level mobs probably has a double master in one ranged profession plus another support profession (like MCM) and another tree in one other. We are constantly changing our skill bases to find one that we are most comfortable with and as such have probably put in as much effort as a Jedi has.
I don't 100% agree with the fact that your alt is used to make your chars. money. As the "astromech stats." have shown the majority of credits in the game are earned by a means of taking missions. It is true that you could set your alt up and use it to make your credits, but this is not the number 1 choice for many. I don't agree that Jedi were intended to be 1.5x strong for GCW purposes, I mean come on that system hasn't worked since day one. Also, the 1.5x stronger bit is supposed to be 1.5x stronger than any full templated "non-jedi" which means any MRiflemand/MD or MCM, MBH/MD, etc.
You Typed:
My bottom line is that any combat profession should be able to bring down I high level mob/npc if they have the skill and patience, they may not be able to do it as quick as a Jedi but they can still do it. Your success is not based on your template but on how well you know your template. MCM requires you to get within 10m of your target to apply your rebuffs and 35m to apply your DoTs. This requires skill and timing and with krayts all too often end up with a trip to the cloner.
As of right now, yes for the most part your success is based upon your template, if it weren't then the devs wouldn't be "balancing" profs. like jedi versus other profs. If this game worked like Medal of Honor, where everyone gets the same armor, same health, and the weapons are balanced so that skill comes into play then I would say you are right.
You Typed:
I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it.
Come on a Master Jedi. LOL. For the few that will make it to master, they deserve way more than 1.5x above the rest. Currently MSwords are better than a MLS. Now I know you are probably going to say that many jedi have these 700dps sabers. Most of them lie, there are very few that actually have these. As far as a 4xxx healer being better than a MCM I don't think this is true. In the case of healing power, yes, but they are not getting all of the other advantages of being MCM with 4xxx either and they also heal slower than a MCM.
It's kinda scissors, paper, rock. one template may have the advantage against another but will be vulnerable to a third. But even though one template might have a disadvantage on paper the experienced player/pvp'er will come out on top most of the time.
my carbs and rifles has been capped for ages too, gettinga bit bored, might drop carbs for pistols just to have fun with some new specials. would be funny if there was no cap on weapons, god knows how many millions i'd have now.
SomeUser wrote:
"But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. Theyput more time and effort into achieving what they have."
Dont confuse the amount of exp a Jedi needswith actual "Time& Effort"
More then a few Jedi power grind their Jedi to full template in as little as 3 weeks while spending hardly any time at the actual keyboard.
I am not confusing the two, they have a direct corrolation with each other. The more xp required at a slower rate means that you need to put more time into gaining the xp. Because you are required to put more time into gaining the xp, this means that you invested more effort (not necessarly physical but mental).
The point behind the original post was to show that when you put more into something you should get more out, not the same as someone that did less in terms of dedicatoin. You don't go to work and do less than someone else and expect to get promoted to a higher level do you?
However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups.
I may be misunderstanding you *but* are you implying that since most players arent Jedi that Jedi need to beable to solo? Being a Jedi doesnt stop a Jedi from grouping just like the rest of us... And with pub 20, grp visibility is getting fixed... So.... I'm not sure I understand.
Not sure what happened to the first part of my original post. But, what it was actually attempting to say was, "the devs need to add other content and creatures/npc's to kill so that all profs. have something to solo, that doesn't take forever to do. I don't know how many players enjoy battling a creature/npc for 5 minutes only to loot a cdef pistol."
Reason being is that because their are so many
non-jediJedi and non-Jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for ajedimany players to kill one and loot the items theyneedwant. This forcesthe jediplayers to purchasethe crystals/pearlsloot fromthe non-jediother players at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons.
Fixed
I 110% agree
As much as you may not want to agree with me. Jedi actually NEED the pearls/crystals that come off of high end mobs. Like I have said in other posts, I personally think they need to remove these items from the game. Non-jedi are not required to go hunt and kill high end mobs just so they can have a good weapon to compete with. Why should jedi?
The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's.
This is a MMORPG. *No* player should be self-sufficient
Besides, every Jedi has an alt. One can either make it a PvE fighting toon *or* a crafting toon to buy the expensive ass crap.
Just because this game is a MMORPG has nothing to do with depending upon others to have success, especially at the level of the "Alpha" class.I also don't know why everyone is stuck on this, "you have an alt" thing. So what, the majority of credits made in this game come from missions and as a previsous poster stated, "Jedi are Warriors" which means they are a fighting class with special abilities.
It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind.
Well, Jedi isnt a hard grind either if you dont want it to be
Yeah the new time lock village phase means you cant get a Jedi from scratch in a week or two... But once you get one it doesnt take long to level... That is if one chooses to take the fast path.
LOL, you apparently have never grinded a jedi before. If you have you would know that it takes a long time compared to completing your basic elite prof. template. If you think different then I said to hear that. The numbers alone will show you that.
Anyway, there is no toon that is truly "great" or "self-sufficient" in SWG (in and by themselves...As it should be in a MMORPG). While us normal duel elites may solo some stuff CERTAIN Jedi templates cannot, we cannot make our own weapons, armor, food, ect ect ect. Most of the loot duel elites get has to be given to others to actually do something with or sold... Yeah, sometimes we get armor/cloth attachments and the occasional cool weapon but that is generally the exception not the rule.
As I have posted in many many other posts, I don't have a problem with Jedi being non-self sufficient, no better than all of the full template non-jedi, etc. If and only if the amount of xp required to achieve full template and the xp gained per kill was equivalent to non-jedi profs.
Which is fine with me, then make all requirements equal for jedi and the amount xp required equal.
Brainplay wrote:
There should be no template that is intentionally made to be 1.5x more powerful than other templates in an MMORPG. PERIOD!
Lol the best posts always get deleted mate, this one’s still here but it’s getting a little warm
I won’t quote all your prev post but I think you can see which paragraphs I’m answering
With the Krayt hunting, I was talking about post CU anyway and as I said it was mostly Jedi hunting krayts who, like me, had a vague hope they might drop something. If Jedi are 1.5 times stronger than other professions then they would kill the krayts 1.5 times faster, but anyone with a good PvE template and skill and patience can beat any mob eventually.
My friends who have gone Jedi who started at the same time as me have spent about the same time as me playing hours-wise, but while they concentrated on one aspect – Jedi, I have ground out several templates to see which ones I like. You ask any master ranger how much effort it takes to just to grind out traps. I wasn’t suggesting that you had AFK’d to get to Jedi, from you’re start date on the forums I assumed you were old skool Jedi.
The problem is that the vast majority of new Jedi are either Ryatt-trailers or AFK’ers. They have now reached knight status without ever actually having played their template and know nothing about PvP or how to bring down high end mobs as all they did was grind mid-range mobs like bols or the wookiees. Now they see experienced players who have spend a shorter amount of time mastering their existing template, but much longer then playing that template and how to use it doing things that the new Jedi can’t solo e.g. krayts. I don’t know how many times I’ve cloned in Fort Knox on tat jumped back on my bike and gone straight back to the krayts only to end up 5 mins later back in the cloner. Now I have experience or krayts and gorax and how to bring them down, I lack the firepower but I make up for it in PvE skill. The problem is that they see other templates doing what they think only they should do and then you get the calls to nerf things.
Hmm I always though you were given the alt to make money as Jedi can’t make anything or harvest, but yeah it’s up to the individual how you make money. I’m an MBH but I make most of my money from selling high-end space loots. You’re right about the GCW not working but I though that was why Jedi were introduced and why they were more powerful.
A Jedi knight may well be 1.5 times stronger than any full template non Jedi but unless he knows his template very well he will loose against a more experienced player. A brand new Knight will probably loose against a BH who has been playing as a BH for 2 years even though technically he is stronger.
Chuck Yeager said that the other guy can have a faster plane, with better climb and turn, and longer range guns. But unless he is a better pilot and knows that plane inside-out he will loose as he won’t know how far he can push his plane and what its strengths and weaknesses are. Same with SWG you may have an uber FoTM Jedi template but unless you’ve spent time playing it in difficult fast-paced situations e.g. PvP with a BH with your mission, you won’t understand what it’s flaws and strengths are. Most new Jedi are too scared to loose the exp so they grind in the Ryatt trails where they are quite safe from Bh or worse grind AFK, they reach knight status quicker but are worse players for not having actually played their toon.
I think that 4xxx healer will out heal 4xxx CM but should not be able to out heal MCM or Mdoc. A double master Jedi should be 1.5 times the power of a double master regular but a lot of Jedi templates are master sabre or defender and the rest in dabbling like 0130 this and 2121 that so they loose out on the benefits and strengths you get from master boxes.
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-14-2005 08:34 AM
mickolakis wrote:
Lol the best posts always get deleted mate, this one’s still here but it’s getting a little warm
I won’t quote all your prev post but I think you can see which paragraphs I’m answering
With the Krayt hunting, I was talking about post CU anyway and as I said it was mostly Jedi hunting krayts who, like me, had a vague hope they might drop something. If Jedi are 1.5 times stronger than other professions then they would kill the krayts 1.5 times faster, but anyone with a good PvE template and skill and patience can beat any mob eventually.
My friends who have gone Jedi who started at the same time as me have spent about the same time as me playing hours-wise, but while they concentrated on one aspect – Jedi, I have ground out several templates to see which ones I like. You ask any master ranger how much effort it takes to just to grind out traps. I wasn’t suggesting that you had AFK’d to get to Jedi, from you’re start date on the forums I assumed you were old skool Jedi.
The problem is that the vast majority of new Jedi are either Ryatt-trailers or AFK’ers. They have now reached knight status without ever actually having played their template and know nothing about PvP or how to bring down high end mobs as all they did was grind mid-range mobs like bols or the wookiees. Now they see experienced players who have spend a shorter amount of time mastering their existing template, but much longer then playing that template and how to use it doing things that the new Jedi can’t solo e.g. krayts. I don’t know how many times I’ve cloned in Fort Knox on tat jumped back on my bike and gone straight back to the krayts only to end up 5 mins later back in the cloner. Now I have experience or krayts and gorax and how to bring them down, I lack the firepower but I make up for it in PvE skill. The problem is that they see other templates doing what they think only they should do and then you get the calls to nerf things.
Hmm I always though you were given the alt to make money as Jedi can’t make anything or harvest, but yeah it’s up to the individual how you make money. I’m an MBH but I make most of my money from selling high-end space loots. You’re right about the GCW not working but I though that was why Jedi were introduced and why they were more powerful.
A Jedi knight may well be 1.5 times stronger than any full template non Jedi but unless he knows his template very well he will loose against a more experienced player. A brand new Knight will probably loose against a BH who has been playing as a BH for 2 years even though technically he is stronger.
Chuck Yeager said that the other guy can have a faster plane, with better climb and turn, and longer range guns. But unless he is a better pilot and knows that plane inside-out he will loose as he won’t know how far he can push his plane and what its strengths and weaknesses are. Same with SWG you may have an uber FoTM Jedi template but unless you’ve spent time playing it in difficult fast-paced situations e.g. PvP with a BH with your mission, you won’t understand what it’s flaws and strengths are. Most new Jedi are too scared to loose the exp so they grind in the Ryatt trails where they are quite safe from Bh or worse grind AFK, they reach knight status quicker but are worse players for not having actually played their toon.
I think that 4xxx healer will out heal 4xxx CM but should not be able to out heal MCM or Mdoc. A double master Jedi should be 1.5 times the power of a double master regular but a lot of Jedi templates are master sabre or defender and the rest in dabbling like 0130 this and 2121 that so they loose out on the benefits and strengths you get from master boxes.
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-14-2005 08:34 AM
I don't disagree with your PVP comments, I think that is true across the board. I also hear what you are saying with a double master jedi template. But I think the reason why most do 1 mastery and dabble in the rest is that inorder to really compete in pvp and do well in pve you have to dabble. I know that you can get by without dabbling but it isn't as effective. For example, say you have a template that is MLS, Menh, 4xx4 healer. this template is fairly decent, the major downfall is that if someone uses armor break on you in pvp you have no armor. you can buy foods that will give you some ranged and melee defenses but at the current moment I don't believe they are working properly (not sure about this, read about say they were broke). On the flip side if you go MLS, MD, 4xx4 healer, then you lack the roots and snares that you getwith enhancer.If you go MLS, xx4x Def., 14x4Enh, 4xx4 healer, you get the best of allworlds. Good defenses with Aura,with FA and novice Def. your armor is equivalent to MD, you have good heals and good state heals, and you get good offense withMLS. Currently the master level abilities are not worthgetting. They don't add much value if any at all. Because of these reasons I would say that I agree with your double mastery 1.5x stronger, but currently it makes you weaker than a dabbler.
Most jedi grind so fast that they don't know how to use there templates, so they sux at any form of combat except killing wookies
mickolakis wrote:
If we could turn the flame fest off please people. These aren't the Jedi or BH forums and I hate it when interesting posts get deleted because of flaming.I’d just like to answer some of TatterSalad’s points from the deleted posts in what I hope is a reasonable way.
"Unfortunately I didn't get to read the post before it got deleted. But I think the idea behind the post was to say hey, if any prof in this game regardless of template is going to solo higher end creatures it should be jedi. They put more time and effort into achieving what they have. That is not to say that it doesn't take time and effort to achieve a full template non-jedi char. However, the majority of the population is not jedi so the devs need to satisfy the ability for players to have content without groups. I think this topic would have never been brought up if Krayts and NS didn't drop the highly needed pearls/crystals for their weapons. Reason being is that because their are so many non-jedi in the game they just camp the areas that spawn these creatures and harvest them all day. Making it near impossible for a jedi to kill one and loot the items they need. This forces the jedi to purchase the crystals/pearls from the non-jedi at outragous prices that most can not afford. This creates an unbalance in the game in damage/sec outputs of weapons."
I can understand that Jedi need the drops form the Krayts for their sabres. However in my experience when we’ve organised krayt hunts with our guild the vast majority of people camping the kraits have been Jedi who want the pearls. Before I was an MCM I was a master ranger and I admit I would go over to the krayt graveyard to hunt krayts with a view to selling the tissues or pearls. The whole of the ranger template is geared towards being able to hunt high level mobs solo and sell what they drop or what I can harvest. I was master ranger master carbineer and with that template I didn’t even have enough points to get novice medic. If there were Jedi there hunting krayts I would wait until they selected a krayt and then hunt a different one. The problem was I would get hate tells telling me to get lost quite or a few times or Jedi trying to poach my kill. I invested a lot of time into becoming master ranger and a lot of my skill points were held up in master scout. The whole template was geared towards one thing - hunting , a master ranger is supposed to be a better hunter than any other profession, not a bigger damage dealer but a better hunter of animals.
"The object behind being jedi is supposed to be (in my opinion) that the character is self-sufficinet. Meaning that they have the ability to solo higher end creatures/npc's without having to group and depend upon others. Which in return would mean that non-jedi would need to depend on other to solo higher end creatures/npc's. When I jedi sees a full templated non-jedi do things like solo krayts, etc. It basically says in a way that, "All the extra effort that I put into being a jedi, was wasted because I could have achieved greatness and self sufficiency with a 2 week or less grind."
A Jedi has not necessarily put in more effort than any other template. I know people who started when I did and in the same time I have mastered a number of different professions all requiring different skills and playing styles and none of which can be mastered by using macros or AFK grinding.
The objective of being a Jedi from what I have read is not to be self sufficient, that is why you are given an alt, it is your alt that makes your money, your Jedi is a warrior. The reason why a Jedi is 1.5x more powerful is for them to make a difference in the GCW. Anyone you see hunting high level mobs probably has a double master in one ranged profession plus another support profession (like MCM) and another tree in one other. We are constantly changing our skill bases to find one that we are most comfortable with and as such have probably put in as much effort as a Jedi has.
"Bottom line non-Jedi should be able to do some things that a full template Jedi can do, but soloing higher level creatures/npc's should not be one of them. But I would also say that having a group of 2 should be equivalent to taking down higher end mobs that Jedi can currently solo. I know I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is what it is."
My bottom line is that any combat profession should be able to bring down I high level mob/npc if they have the skill and patience, they may not be able to do it as quick as a Jedi but they can still do it. Your success is not based on your template but on how well you know your template. MCM requires you to get within 10m of your target to apply your rebuffs and 35m to apply your DoTs. This requires skill and timing and with krayts all too often end up with a trip to the cloner.
"One last thing, I don't want to hear that being jedi is all about "playing the roll" of the saga. Most players don't become jedi to "play the saga role." They do it because they know with a little hard work and dedication they can have something that is supposed to be a step above the rest."
I agree that a master JedI should be a step above the rest, a master sabre should be better than a master swords and a master healer should be better than a master Doc. But someone who only has 4xxx in master healer should not the better than someone who is MCM or Mdoc. a double master jedi should be able to wipe the floor with another non-jedi template IF he knows how to use it.
Peace an' love y'all
Message Edited by mickolakis on 07-13-2005 01:47 PM