Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Vortexala ...okay lets have some constructive discussion
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Bronzen
Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:13 pm
#1
Poison is way overpowered in PvP. That is not a Galactic Civil War issue. Thisis Combat Medic issue. People don't go to the GCW boards to talk about flame dots or warcry..they go the respective professions boards. And Dueling is a part of PvP, but not necessarily the GCW.
Regardles, the issue is this :Having the ability to cast an area attack that does 450+ damage a tickand ignores armor andgoes through walls. Does it ever miss? I dont even know.
But I do know that this needs to changed.It should be reduced so that damage is consistent with all other PvP damage (75%) and, in certain cases, armor should protect against it. Maybe if the player is wearing an airt-tight complete suit (full bodycovered) of armor.
Whatever.But something.
Poison is a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of war. Ugly, but legit. It just needs to conform with same mechanics of PvP that all other attacks are required to (armor and damage reduction).
Bronzen
vortexala
Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:28 pm
#2
Bronzen wrote:
Regardles, the issue is this :Having the ability to cast an area attack that does 450+ damage a tickand ignores armor andgoes through walls. Does it ever miss? I dont even know.
Yes, it does miss. Do you see it miss? No, because you don't get a message when the poison misses. All you see is when it hits. And 450pts at 10sec intervals is not overpowered damage output. The wall thing is a LOS issue, a bug, it'll get addressed at some point.
But I do know that this needs to changed.It should be reduced so that damage is consistent with all other PvP damage (75%) and, in certain cases, armor should protect against it. Maybe if the player is wearing an airt-tight complete suit (full bodycovered) of armor.
First, at 450 damage per 10 sec, it is already relatively lower then any other weapon damage dealt on the battlefield. Applying the 75% damage reduction would simply mean that a persons natural regeneration would reduce our effectiveness even more. Add in buffs and regeneration will simply negate our poisons effectiveness completely. Not to mention the ability to heal ones self using Stim-Bs at Novice Medic.
As for the air-tight armour, that truly is an armoursmith issue. It would require implementation, coding, balancing, and new artwork for a new type of armour that they would have to craft. There would need to be drawbacks and vulnerabilities added to it. All that takes time. Why waste the time and effort when the Combat Revamp is so near? Why not wait for everything to be rebalanced at the same time? Lack of patience?
Whatever.But something.
That 'something' will come in the form of fixing the bugs that plague the profession, fixing the foods so they actually work, and waiting for the Combat Revamp.
Poison is a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of war. Ugly, but legit. It just needs to conform with same mechanics of PvP that all other attacks are required to (armor and damage reduction).
Who says it won't 'conform'? Who says it will even have to be 'nerfed' at all? No one has seen the Combat Revamp in full yet.
Bronzen
Zarlor
Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:35 pm
#3
Armor, for a Medical DoT, is the Potency rating on the pack. It can be crafted to have a low Potency, but then it will "miss" more often. Other forms of "armor" for medical DoTs include fodd that provide increased resistances and several loot drop items that also provide these. Doctors do have on their issues list, however, a mention of "immunization packs" as a Master Doc benefit that the Devs have, among other ideas, said they liked and would give consideration to. I woud suggest that what we are really looking for here is simply more resistance methods to beging to provide something of the level that armor provides some resistance.
Damage reduction comes in the form of Doctor Cure packs. These packs remove Effectiveness from medical DoTs based on their rating compared to the rating of the Posion or Disease. In most cases a Doctor will simply completely cure the DoT before it can even cause any damage at all. THe only situation where this is not possible is with AoE effects, another issue covere under the Doctor Issues that is tied in with the Immunization Packs mentioned above as a possible solution.
These things DO exist for Medical DoTs.
I would suggest that if you feel a Doctor is not appropriate to bring with you in a PvP raid or defense then perhaps you are not looking at SWG PvP combat in the same way the Developers have. SWG PvP combat seems to me to be pretty much a chess game. Going into PvP without a Doc around is like going into a chess game without any Rooks.
Finally the next biggest issue would be damage to an unhealable pool. We have some very promising signs that this one pool will no longer be so extremely dominant after the Combat Revamp (so I would counsel patience for just a few more months.)
Now, I hope you will notice in the above statments that I have not said that CMs are perfectly balanced as they stand now. Instead I admit there are issues with the profession, but that most of those issues are actually being looked into or are being addressed.
Instead what I am countering is the assessment that CM Damage is too high and that it is Damage that is the problem. It simply is not. CM damage is already very much in line, even after considering armor effects, with the damage per second delivered by other less point intensive, and less expensive, template/weapon combinations in the game.
I will conclude, however, with saying that your opening remarks are probalby not the best to consider. What does anyone who comes to the CM forum insisting that they know the profession and know it's issues, only to clearly show that they really don't know them all the while coming to decry that profession and proclaim that they have the knowledge that says what those changes should be to the professsion expect to find here? If you cry nerf on some other professions forum, they are going to bite back, are they not? If someone comes to your primary professions forum and decries nerf there, will you not try to defend your position when you disagree with it? So I would greatly concur that this really is NOT the appropriate forum for such actions. The GCW is where the issues really lie, since it is all about the balance of professions as they encounter each other in the GCW.
And when there are many who come to that profession's forum, all decrying the same thing without bothering to find out that their statments have been made before, without bothering to find out where the problems REALLY lie, then what service are they performing for that forum and that profession? Are they not, instead, disrupting that forum? Are they not disrupting the flow of information between CMs to better learn about the game and share information? That is whay, I beleive, the nerf posts have become so very much a nuisance and unproductive on this forum and why Texxie has very thoughtfully asked us to stop responding to them (unlike I am doing now. 
) And that's why we can all hope that these discussion move to a forum more properly focused to look at the balance issues.
) And that's why we can all hope that these discussion move to a forum more properly focused to look at the balance issues.
Pahdbacca
Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:47 pm
#4
Bronzen wrote:
Poison is way overpowered in PvP.
Matter of opinion.
That is not a Galactic Civil War issue. Thisis Combat Medic issue.
Funny, not very many CMs take issue with it.
People don't go to the GCW boards to talk about flame dots or warcry..they go the respective professions boards. And Dueling is a part of PvP, but not necessarily the GCW.
Regardles, the issue is this :Having the ability to cast an area attack that does 450+ damage a tickand ignores armor andgoes through walls.
I will type this very slowly, in case you missed it on the other 20+ posts. As a general rule, the CM community agrees that it should not go through walls. As a general rule, 45 points of damage per second, even if it is AoE, is not a lot of damage.
Which part of 'not only do the Devs think that the amount of damage done by medical dots is ok, but they are comfortable enough to have the CM correspondent post to the public that the amount of damage done by CMs is ok with them' do you want to argue about?
Does it ever miss? I dont even know.
No, but it gets resisted, which VKs or FWGs do not.
But I do know that this needs to changed.It should be reduced so that damage is consistent with all other PvP damage (75%) and, in certain cases, armor should protect against it. Maybe if the player is wearing an airt-tight complete suit (full bodycovered) of armor.
Damage output via medical DoTs is low. Are you saying that something that is already not up to par should be nerfed even more? Excuse me if you take offense to this, but the argument 'because everybody else has to do it' is childish.
Find somebody on a debate team. Try to sell them on the argument that...There is this game. Some of the players in the game score points a certain way. The people who designed the game said that they are happy with both the way and amount of points that this firs group scores. Other players score points another way, but the people who designed the game thought that they scored too many points when players played vs themselves, so they reduced the amount of points this second group of players could score when playing vs themselves. I think that because the second group needed an adjustment, the first group should have an adjustment also. Even though the designers think that the first group does not. Ask the debate person is that is a sound argument.
Whatever.But something.
Poison is a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of war. Ugly, but legit. It just needs to conform with same mechanics of PvP that all other attacks are required to (armor and damage reduction).
If it conformed to the same mechanincs, then it wouldn't be a poison.
Bronzen
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 03-03-2004 07:49 PM
roymitchel1
Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:06 pm
#5
so you combat medics really dont think you are overpowered right now?
Asbalon
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:33 am
#6
Well.....
We think that there are some sever bugs out there that is giving us some powerfull advantages over the rest.
We also think that some bugs will be fixed.
We even more think that TH is not lying to us when he is telling us that the Combat Revamp is comeing soon, and we are actually half way through it.
And we think that everyone should wait till the Revamp has happend to see whats overpowered and not.
I allways think about it like this: In the automobile industry the are allways testing thier cars. Now test driver starts complaining that the car drives funny, is totaly out of whack the motor seems to stutter all the time.
The engineer comes to him and explains: It drives funny because you didn't wait for us to put the wheels on it. Its out of whack because you didn't wait for us to put the doors on it. And the motor is stuttering all the time because half the parts are still lying here on the floor.
We think that there are some sever bugs out there that is giving us some powerfull advantages over the rest.
We also think that some bugs will be fixed.
We even more think that TH is not lying to us when he is telling us that the Combat Revamp is comeing soon, and we are actually half way through it.
And we think that everyone should wait till the Revamp has happend to see whats overpowered and not.
I allways think about it like this: In the automobile industry the are allways testing thier cars. Now test driver starts complaining that the car drives funny, is totaly out of whack the motor seems to stutter all the time.
The engineer comes to him and explains: It drives funny because you didn't wait for us to put the wheels on it. Its out of whack because you didn't wait for us to put the doors on it. And the motor is stuttering all the time because half the parts are still lying here on the floor.
Morganite
Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:35 am
#7
roymitchel1 wrote:
so you combat medics really dont think you are overpowered right now?
Most cases, the bugs make us overpowered right now more then anything else. Hey, we want to heal mind at an easier cost, and Ranged AE cures for us. If stims healed mind as well, we wouldnt be having any discussion about CM's being overpowered..
Zarlor
Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:08 am
#8
roymitchel1 wrote:
so you combat medics really dont think you are overpowered right now?
As the other folks here said in response, that is what I would agree with. I think if you were drawing that conclusion from our statements, however, that you really didn't read them. Or you read into them what you wanted to read into them, instead of taking a good look at what we were actually saying.
WhosScrufyLooking
Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:29 am
#9
Why does everyone pick up the 'Combat medics poison me' line - I am fast approaching master CM and I have used in total 1 poison stim pack (and that was so week it took me all the thing to poison a Wamp Rat) - I have however spent many happy weeks running madly around battle fields and hunting groups risking life and limb to heal my comrades whilst firing off the odd shot with my Carbine.
I have had a blast, I am a combat medic, I help people whilst on the front line (I have a drag /heal macro set up) I enjoy the role and I think I have a good name on my server as a good field medic.
On a whole though I think people only look at the Combat Medics ability to poison. Alot of people think I'm a Jedi when I heal mind and at the least are confussed when I do, also when I tear across the area withnear thehighest possible terrain negotiation in the game with out any mods.
So I ask does anyone really know what they are moaning about?
People are complaining about state effects that can be given out by many things nowadays; Items and Creatures alike. So before people complain about CM's please think...Am I complaining about the class or the fact that I got beat? Because if it is the later you just need to get over it and accept that some classes can do things that others cannot - Hell I cant kick the hell out of an ATST like a commando - but I can kick the hell out of a commando, so it all evens out. Archietects cant solo Krayts, but they can build huge halls and houses.
If you dont like a class it is through jealousy that they beat you, if you dont like loosing then get better, get poison resists, get a doctor on your side to heal you, kill them first, become a CM, get a Creature that poisons, think for your self....or just whinge until it gets changed...Cos this game will rock when we all are fighting with sponge guns.(Weren'tguns that fired spongemade by a company called NERF? Hmmmm coincidence or not?)
Agent001
Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:39 am
#10
I have yet to see ANYWHERE on ANY post on ANY forum where someone explains how 450 points of damage every 10 seconds is overpowered.
My alternate character with a decent FWG5 and only pistol 4 in the marksman line does 200-300 points of damage with bodyshot1 every 2-3 seconds (whatever the bodyshot timer is). Thats not even a NOVICE pistoleer, and I can dish out as much as a MASTER CM over the same amount of time.
No one has ever shown me a good explanation at how a CM is overpowered based on damage output.
Achilles467
Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:35 am
#11
The whole "blah blah we have low DPS" thing is old.
(450 * 30 people) / 10 = 1350 = highest DPS in game.
Achilles467
Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:37 am
#12
Agent001 wrote:
I have yet to see ANYWHERE on ANY post on ANY forum where someone explains how 450 points of damage every 10 seconds is overpowered.
Read my above post.
Achilles467
Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:45 am
#13
WhosScrufyLooking wrote:
If you dont like a class it is through jealousy that they beat you, if you dont like loosing then get better, get poison resists, get a doctor on your side to heal you, kill them first, become a CM, get a Creature that poisons, think for your self....or just whinge until it gets changed...Cos this game will rock when we all are fighting with sponge guns.(Weren'tguns that fired spongemade by a company called NERF? Hmmmm coincidence or not?)
Poison resists? /laugh
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