Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Disease Inconsistencies
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jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:12 am
#1
Diseases in PvP are very non-sensical.
Assuming a 1100 max of a primary stat, the as I understand it (as you can't wound buffs), and assuming 200 tick damage per tick (which is a rather low estimate for a master combat medic, especially factoring battle fatigue into the mix), it will take 6 ticks to black-bar any given primary stat. At 40 seconds a tick, this will take 4 minutes.
However, a disease will last for easily last for more than 10 minutes. So assuming you don't get the disease cured, there is 6 minutes where a victim is held invalid without the disease really doing any direct effect.
Note that in PvE when fighting a monster with 10K+ HAM this inconsistency is not present, and diseases are arguably working well.
jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:13 am
#2
I would propose that diseases somehow be changed to make more sense. Some ideas I had, in order of ease of implementation and keeping CM's strong, are:
1) Do nothing. (This calculation does not take into account non-master CM's reduced tick damage. Furthermore, in real life, an especially strongdisease will hurt you, keep you weak while it runs it course above and beyond the initial weakening, and take a while to cure you back to full strength.)
2) Implement a PvP duration nerf on diseases, possibly 75%. This not affect the speed of damage or blackbar'ing, but would remove this post-damage down time. This also has the effect of making it harder for an entertainer or medicto use a combat medic to grind out healing experience by using diseases (as opposed to "healing real wounds").
3) Implement a PvP damage reduction on on diseases, possibly 75%. This would affect the amount of time a victim would have before being black barred. It also has the benefit/drawback of giving the victim more time to seek medical assistance before being rendered helpless, and of making it making it harder for an entertainer or medicto use a combat medic to grind out healing experience by using diseases (as opposed to "healing real wounds").
4) Change how diseases work entirely, so they act like nuna poisons (albeit slightly stronger). For example, changing the damage to be 5 per tick, but lasting 90 minutes. This has theeffect of crippling almost all uses for diseases in grinding out healing experience. This also has the effect of making diseases act like small niggling diseases which slowly cause the victim to degenerate (as opposed to a 3 tick death which it currently is). This has the drawback of making even primary stat diseases worthless in PvE, and of being very hard to implement (seeing how an advanced IA is 40+ strength, which means it would be hard to implement a way for disease C's to have 3 or 5 effectiveness).
Fzoul_Inost
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:27 am
#3
How about diseases with all new effects, instead of just blackbarring of HAM?
- Slow (reduce running and/or weapon speed)
- Balance (accuracy and/or defense reduction)
- Weaken (reduce resists to damage type(s) )
...all I could think of now, but would certainly be more interesting than the current implementation, and would be a great counter to the beneficial food effects.
- Slow (reduce running and/or weapon speed)
- Balance (accuracy and/or defense reduction)
- Weaken (reduce resists to damage type(s) )
...all I could think of now, but would certainly be more interesting than the current implementation, and would be a great counter to the beneficial food effects.
fatgit
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:36 am
#4
It would make sense to move CM away from wounds and into Debuffs, although as far as PvE is concerned, that would tread on the toes of scouts and rangers using their traps...
eapers
Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:55 pm
#5
The main problem I have with diseases is that they cannot wound buffed ham. It would be interesting if diseases removed buffs at the same rate, but only after wounding the players origonal ham.
Also; although it may be a minor effect, dont diseases on wound capped stats increase bf?
jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:00 pm
#6
Yes, diseasescause BF. And for group PvE, this is more important than the damage of diseases themselves in my opinion, as this increases the effect of others attacking the mob. Then again, I have no real evidence that this increases the damage of your average pistoleer, so I could be wrong. If nothing else, BF grossly increases the effect of the diseases themself. 
For more details, check the "Disease and Battle Fatigue" link in the "useful links" post STICKIED on the top of the CM forum.
Edit: added more details
Message Edited by jfang on 07-13-2004 05:02 PM
eapers
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:04 pm
#7
I knew diseases cause bf, I just wanted to point out that there *is* a direct effect as time passes.
jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:11 pm
#8
Not really. I haven't tested it, so I don't know for certain, but it seems reasonable that a disease wouldn't cause BF unless it ticks. So after a disease ticks for about 1100 wounds (causing about 100 BF in the process), it wouldn't cause any more BF either.
eapers
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:27 pm
#9
I would reason that the disease is ticking, but no longer wounds a player due to a cap of base ham -1. This would explain the 599 action wounds (600 -1) and 1000 bf I received from an action poison.But in case I was suffering from multiple diseased stats or somthing else I don't remember, I will happilytry this out in game as soon as I get the chance.
jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:28 pm
#10
Really? Interesting.
Well, if you deciderun a test, be sure to post the results. I, and I'm sure many others, love to learn more about how our class works.
Pahdbacca
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:55 pm
#11
Haven tested it in about 4 months, but diseases continued to cause BF after they could cause no more wounds. (ask my guild weaponsmith who had the 1.2k BF....lucky that master musician walked into the shop to buy a rifle at the time)
jfang
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:57 pm
#12
Pahdbacca wrote:
Haven tested it in about 4 months, but diseases continued to cause BF after they could cause no more wounds. (ask my guild weaponsmith who had the 1.2k BF....lucky that master musician walked into the shop to buy a rifle at the time)
1.2K BF? The most I have seen is 1000 BF, and I have seen that several times. Either a giant coincidence, or BF in capped at 1K... Are you sure you say 1200 BF?
Good timing with the musician though. Didhe or sheoffer a "free" rifle for 20 minutes of entertainment?
Pahdbacca
Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:05 pm
#13
I think it was 1.2.......maybe that was total. Maybe i will test it again tonight......poor zhose.
I only had doc crafting at the time, so the musician was fighting it as the BF was still ticking.
Didn't take 20 minutes though, only about 5. The musician spammed flourishes while i spammed the heals. Pip has some BF at the time also and it was gone in less than a minute.
And yes, a couple of free weapons were given out at that time.
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