Combat Medic Archive

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DocDomps wrote:

This is the most intellegent post on this topic yet, sticky this one. The ones crying about this are the ones that caused it to happen, so screw em. It is not a nerf, as the original posted said, it is balance. MDoc = MCM = Balance.

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Sorry i have to disagree with that last line.. MDoc = MCM = Balance..

I still feel that docs have better battlefield healing abilities than combat medics.. this is my fundamental issue..

I wanted to be bleeding along with my team.. pulling them thru.. not in a hospital performing surgery.. this is why i chose CM instead of doc..


IMO Doc's are becoming much more efficient battlefield healers than CM's.. which seems to defy logic if you ask me.. because a CM would be trained for tending to those wounds/injuries in battle.. and a doc would be trained for repairing permanent damage in an operating room environment..


Granted the changes i've seen surely acknowlege numerous issues in the PVP system in general.. i see too much blurring of the line of Combat healer.. and non-combat healer.. and that blurring would seem to come mostly from the shadow docs are casting on CM's with these recent changes..


Who knows though.. after JTL.. there's supposed to be a combat rebalance (when that happens i might buy JTL).. and health/action damage might make CM's battlefield role much more essential..

But this isn't then.. this is now.. and this is how i feel now.. *shrug

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Jedi-scout wrote:

First off, review the changes at hand. What effects CM the most is not the area cures.Most smart pvper'shad already incorporated doc in their templates to combat dots.The area cure pacs are 100 med use from what i've seen thus far, which is not what most pvper's have for doc anyway. The innoculations, aka poisons resists, although effective, do not make people immune. What it does mean is that you have to be abit more resourceful in what your doing. You can't just spam a stack on a group and make them all run away. You have to try and make a pack stick. And they do in fact stick, if you are persistent enough. Also remember that this works both ways. Dot weapons got hit with this nerf just as much as you did.

Does this mean CM is now dead? If you took up CM for just spamming dots, then you took it up for the wrong reason. Area heals, especially in the jedi age, are essential for group survival in PVP. Mind heals are essential for group survival in PVP. Keeping your group alive should have always been the role of the CM. Why do you think you have such a high terrain negotiation if not to get to your patients fast. Hence the term combat medic. Alot of people seem to have forgotten this role, and tried to play the spoiler. The dots, were a terrific form of crowd control, but should not have dictated PVP as much as it did.

Now they have become secondary on the CM side of PVP. People are complaing for having to be an actual CM. They still work, not as much, but they still do. However, as previously stated, if that was the only reason you took up CM then you should drop it right now. CM dots should be a deterrant, a means of keeping enemies at bay while you keep your party healed. If it takes a nerf like this for people to realize it, then so be it. I'm a CM and I am going to deal with it. Will I drop the entire profession now that i have a 1/4 hit ratio? No, and neither would any other combat profession with a dot weapon. If it does the damage when it hits, thenyou fullfilledyour role in that dept., but now you actually have more time to concentrate on the other 70% of this profession than you did before, but complain about it?

Educate yourself in the role of CM before starting another flame thread. Cm isn't dead. It's now officially working.

I can cure fire, so flame away.

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hehe no working was takign the stacking of poisons and the incapping of poison out of the game ...thoughs were bugs, but because too many people did not do what it took to pvp and just came on the boards to rant nerf CM we are getting over kill instead of fixes. This patch would have been okay with just the area cure or the resist buffs not both

Mind heal is worhtless because the way it is going jedi will rule the pvp world ..and they can heal all three pools and once so it isn't needed. CM is a poison shucking proffession I don't give a damn how ppl said it was intended. It was intended to be played as a necromancer with its dots. Its entire skill sink is tworads poisons.......

jedi is over powered..if anything ......i do not feel liek typeing the reasons up again ...there are two many and i have posted them multiple times ....the fact is when you give a class that much power over every other class you throw balance out the **edit**ign window

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somerandomuser wrote:

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DocDomps wrote:

This is the most intellegent post on this topic yet, sticky this one. The ones crying about this are the ones that caused it to happen, so screw em. It is not a nerf, as the original posted said, it is balance. MDoc = MCM = Balance.

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Sorry i have to disagree with that last line.. MDoc = MCM = Balance..

I still feel that docs have better battlefield healing abilities than combat medics.. this is my fundamental issue..

I wanted to be bleeding along with my team.. pulling them thru.. not in a hospital performing surgery.. this is why i chose CM instead of doc..


IMO Doc's are becoming much more efficient battlefield healers than CM's.. which seems to defy logic if you ask me.. because a CM would be trained for tending to those wounds/injuries in battle.. and a doc would be trained for repairing permanent damage in an operating room environment..


Granted the changes i've seen surely acknowlege numerous issues in the PVP system in general.. i see too much blurring of the line of Combat healer.. and non-combat healer.. and that blurring would seem to come mostly from the shadow docs are casting on CM's with these recent changes..


Who knows though.. after JTL.. there's supposed to be a combat rebalance (when that happens i might buy JTL).. and health/action damage might make CM's battlefield role much more essential..

But this isn't then.. this is now.. and this is how i feel now.. *shrug

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you are wrong it is not balanced ...CM costs more skill points first off, so if it was balanced it woudl be better

what does doc have before the patch? cure for any state in the game, able to buff 6 of your stats. What did CM have before the patch? poisons and mind heal (which a lot of crap pvpers do not know how to use). Now that poisons are beign negated by doctor (a proffession that costs less) how is that balanced?

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Jedi-scout wrote:

The area cure pacs are 100 med use from what i've seen thus far, which is not what most pvper's have for doc anyway.

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Major correction here - only the C level cures are 100 med use. The As and Bs range from 70 med use to 90 med use.

Further, a B level area poison cure in the hands of a doctor dabbler will cure a master combat medic non-loot area poison C in a single shot.

Worse still, an A level area disease cure in the hands of a dabbler doc will cure a master combat medic non-loot area disease C in a single shot.

The cures (particularly the non-master cures) are simply too powerful.

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Jedi-scout wrote:

First off, review the changes at hand.

Ok... will do.

What effects CM the most is not the area cures.

No, the combination of overpowered area cures and overpowered innocculations is what will affect Combat Medics the most.

Most smart pvper'shad already incorporated doc in their templates to combat dots.

But alas,in that case most PvP'ers isn't smart. Since there have been a very vocal group calling for "we shouldn't need to have Doc in our defense stacking template to be invulnerable". I can agree that doctors should not be a template prerequisite, although I do believe that doctors should be included in successfull group PvP.

The area cure pacs are 100 med use from what i've seen thus far, which is not what most pvper's have for doc anyway.

No, but at a 31meter area and one shot cures all cures that point is pretty moot... all you need is one havlapumped doctor to nullify any ammount of Combat Medics... that is not balanceing, that is reversing the imbalance to placate the morons calling for a nerf.

The innoculations, aka poisons resists, although effective, do not make people immune.

This is true... there is allways a 5% chance of the poison sticking, regardless of potency and resists. Now, if you can use a B-level inocculation to push the chance of a C-level poison sticking down to 5% something just isn't balanced. And this has been agreed upon, as far as I understand it will be adressed in 9.4 (whenever that is... on to two weeks from now I guess)

What it does mean is that you have to be abit more resourceful in what your doing.

What it does mean is that there is no point in wasting any resources on PvP untill 9.4.

Although this might be a fountain of joy for the CM-haters, most reasonable individuals will accnowledge that releasing a patch that needs patching and tweaking just is a surefire way of telling the players on test center "we don't really have any use for you except as a means of leaking information to live servers and lulling the masses into believing we care about their opinions. It also sends a pretty clear message to the customer base "Mob rules are in play, we don't care much for balance just as long as the most vocal are shut up."

You can't just spam a stack on a group and make them all run away.

That is a good thing. But the current PvP rules are a bad thing. Come 9.4 it might become a good thing or it might stay as a bad thing, we'll see about that.

You have to try and make a pack stick.

I have a 5% chance... sure I can stand still for a minute or so while I toss poisons, if you agree not to dizzy/KD me or headshot me in the meantime.

And they do in fact stick, if you are persistent enough.

Remember that we are not talking rifles here. We have (as of recent development) shorter range. We need to stand still. And every poison pack (which cost quite much to produce) has a limit of 30-45 charges. I don't need to be told to be persistant at 5k per attack. I need a balanced chance to hit and then not be immediately nullified without doing 1 point of damage.

Also remember that this works both ways. Dot weapons got hit with this nerf just as much as you did.

Bo ho... I can honestly tell you this. I don't care diddly squat for DOT weapons. They were truly a bad addition to the game.

Does this mean CM is now dead?

We won't know untill after 9.4 (or rather untill they stabilize the balance)

If you took up CM for just spamming dots, then you took it up for the wrong reason.

Well... that one is a trick question. You go ask the Devs about how a Combat Medic should be played.

Area heals, especially in the jedi age, are essential for group survival in PVP.

Um... since it is only jedi and High Level content that produces any need for anything beyond buffs and a good Stim-B shouldn't this rather be an indication that Jedi ought to be poked down a few steps on the powerladder?

Mind heals are essential for group survival in PVP.

Yeah... about that... isn't it time we get something that fixes the broken properties of Mind? And isn't it time mind heal is fixed so that it isn't completely worthless?

Keeping your group alive should have always been the role of the CM.

Ah... the question about the role of the Combat Medic again... just leave that one... you should remember, we have tried... there is no clear role for Combat Medics. They can be either poison bombers or the red haired stepchildren of the healer family... that is up entirely to the individual Combat Medic.

Why do you think you have such a high terrain negotiation if not to get to your patients fast.

That is a reasonable assumption.

Hence the term combat medic.

Drop that line... you can't presume to define Combat Medics. Trust me on this one.

Alot of people seem to have forgotten this role, and tried to play the spoiler.

Ah now... there haven't been any need at all for healing Combat Medics since the advent of insane buffs. The poisoner role have on the other hand always been viable. (untill now that is, now neither role is much to write home about)

The dots, were a terrific form of crowd control, but should not have dictated PVP as much as it did.

Agreed, but breaking them is not balanceing them. We all wanted Balance... and any intelligent player would understand that balance is good for the entire community... if the devs just keep with the breaking fixes the only playable profession left will be jedi. Wich might be nice for jedi. But will stand out as particularly dull for the rest of us.

Now they have become secondary on the CM side of PVP.

Well... if we had a primary abililty that would have been half acceptable (though they would still be considered broken and not functioning as intended) But now we have two secondary abilities and no primary... any person should be able to see how that is flawed.

People are complaing for having to be an actual CM.

Ah ah ah... now you're there again. Assuming you know what a Combat Medic is and what the developers intended with the profession. Take this advice from me if you take nothing else from this post to your heart... YOU DON'T KNOW JACK. Hell, the ambigous answer we got from the devs when we asked for clarification of our place in the grand scale of things could mean anything... except that we are uniquely focused on healing.

The fact that poisons allways have been a part of this profession (longer than Mind Heal IIRC) and the titles "Toxicologist" and "Chemical Warfare Expert" also do weaken your case. So... either find some hard evidence (your own opinion does neither count as either hard nor evidence) or just accept that that is your opinion and that it ammounts to nothing else than another opinion.

They still work, not as much, but they still do.

I would hardly call the current state "working" that is to say that a watch who's hands don't move show the right time twice daily. It is semantically correct but the statement in itself is so ludicrous that I would be hard pressed to convince anyone who knows anything about watches about it.

However, as previously stated, if that was the only reason you took up CM then you should drop it right now.

Role of Combat Medics... well, well, well... you keep coming back to that. And as I have previously stated... your opinion in this matter is as useless to me as mine probablyis to you.

CM dots should be a deterrant, a means of keeping enemies at bay while you keep your party healed.

But at 5% (or roughly about two sticks per overpriced pack of poison) which can be heald at whim without ever doing the slightest damage if the group is even only half assed prepared. Combat Medic DOTs isn't a deterrant... it's a great big nothing.

If it takes a nerf like this for people to realize it, then so be it.

If it is a nerf, then it isn't a good thing. Look at commandos look at creatur handlers look at bounty hunters... breaking a profession isn't how to make the gaming enviroment enjoyable for all players. Giving decent resistances (never higher than 75%) and some added mitigation against poisons would paired with a 10 meter area point blank cure (needing to be at least the same level as the poison it is supposed to clear to be one shot) would be a good balance of the game.Making half the profession useless isn't.

I'm a CM and I am going to deal with it.

You are a Combat Medic and you will bend knee. I'm a Combat Medic, and will always be regardless of the skills on my toon. And I will fight for decent balance and a level play field for all.

Will I drop the entire profession now that i have a 1/4 hit ratio?

Why in heavens name not? Doctor is both more profitable and more versitile. And if you allready got Doctor... why spend the extra skill points on redundant abilities?

No, and neither would any other combat profession with a dot weapon.

I won't presume to know what any other DOT weapon profession would do... except for saying DOT's isn't the primary weapon of any of the other professions (except maybe in a way pikeman but they have complained about being broken since I first registered on these forums).

If it does the damage when it hits, thenyou fullfilledyour role in that dept.

Well if it doesn't do any damage when it hits... you need a full 10 seconds of totally inept doctors on the other side for it to do any damage at all, remember... how about then?

, but now you actually have more time to concentrate on the other 70% of this profession than you did before, but complain about it?

Geez... and here I've always thought Healing was the minor part of the Combat Medic profession. Maybe the one to nine ratio of offensive schematics we are given threw me of on the wrong track. Thank you for clearing up the true numbers.

If this profession is to be as it should (be given the premises we were given by the devs) the ratio healer/poisoner should be about 50/50 anyways.

Educate yourself in the role of CM before starting another flame thread.

I've been around for quite some time... I do believe that I have my visions for Combat Medics at least partially alligned with reality.

Cm isn't dead. It's now officially working.

Yeah right... just like that clock. It works twice daily. I want a profession that works all the time.

I can cure fire, so flame away.

Ah... you were a doctor after all... well then you ought to have all the healing you need. But if you truly desire the useless mind heal, please help yourself to it. Start a petition to transfer it to Doctors so Combat Medics can loose it's last gimped bit of healing and be free to complain about poisons not working and doctors having the monopoly on battlefield healing.

I can't cure fire... but flames never bothered me much anyway. Please be my guest... but I'd rather we tried to have some constructive debate.

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Jedi-scout wrote:

First off, review the changes at hand. What effects CM the most is not the area cures.Most smart pvper'shad already incorporated doc in their templates to combat dots.The area cure pacs are 100 med use from what i've seen thus far, which is not what most pvper's have for doc anyway. No but most bots are Master Docs. So all they have to do is run a spam macro and they will be covered in an AE blanket of poison freedom. Quite honestly I know of very few Master Doctors that actually PVP.

The innoculations, aka poisons resists, although effective, do not make people immune. What it does mean is that you have to be abit more resourceful in what your doing. The A class versions have been reported as being able to negate C class poisons. W-T-F?

You can't just spam a stack on a group and make them all run away. You have to try and make a pack stick. And they do in fact stick, if you are persistent enough. Also remember that this works both ways. Dot weapons got hit with this nerf just as much as you did.

This discussion doesn't even matter much as far as DOT weapons are concerned. You realize this has basically tripled the value of Fire weapons? Enough said on that.

Does this mean CM is now dead? If you took up CM for just spamming dots, then you took it up for the wrong reason. Area heals, especially in the jedi age, are essential for group survival in PVP. Why? Jedis spam their mind hits just as much as any other profession that can. Area heals are negated by Stim Bs, armor and doctor buffs.

Mind heals are essential for group survival in PVP. Sure, let the CM wear his mind down to nothing just so the other players can have fun. Sorry I don't buy that. A CM should not have to pay that amount of points just to kill themselves so their buddies can have all the fun. Just like you all complain that it is no fun healing your mind disease after a CM stacks crap on you, it is no fun for them to heal off those mind wounds either. Fair is fair.

Keeping your group alive should have always been the role of the CM. They don't have the skills necessarry to be true combat healers. They need to be able to cure all types of combat damage to fill that role. Unfortunately us Doctors have the skills they need. If Doctors were given some form of apply poison you can't tell me we wouldn't use it.

Why do you think you have such a high terrain negotiation if not to get to your patients fast. Hence the term combat medic.

I could pick up Scout 3xxx, keep Master Doctor and still be able to be more useful at less poiints than aCM.

Alot of people seem to have forgotten this role, and tried to play the spoiler. The dots, were a terrific form of crowd control, but should not have dictated PVP as much as it did. The DEVS gave them the ability to use DOTs. Why are you blaming them for using that ability? If you picked up TKA are you telling me you would choose to refrain from using your headhit attack? You would not use your dizzy/KD? If you were a rifleman would you refrain from using headshot3 or strafeshot2? You are a fkkn liar if you answer yes.

Now they have become secondary on the CM side of PVP. People are complaing for having to be an actual CM. No they are complaining because they have no primary skill and a few questionable secondary skills.

They still work, not as much, but they still do. However, as previously stated, if that was the only reason you took up CM then you should drop it right now. CM dots should be a deterrant, a means of keeping enemies at bay while you keep your party healed. If it takes a nerf like this for people to realize it, then so be it. I'm a CM and I am going to deal with it. You are no CM. If you were any kind of CM you would easily note how unbalanced this is. Many of the old schoolers took up CM for the healing and found it wasn't there. The only true abilities they were given for the points spent was the ability to apply poison and disease.

Will I drop the entire profession now that i have a 1/4 hit ratio? No, and neither would any other combat profession with a dot weapon. If it does the damage when it hits, thenyou fullfilledyour role in that dept., but now you actually have more time to concentrate on the other 70% of this profession than you did before, but complain about it? Other 70%? Last I read CMs have a 9:1 ratio of offensive to defensive medicine. How exactly does that constitute "the other 70%"?

Educate yourself in the role of CM before starting another flame thread. Cm isn't dead. It's now officially working. Trust me I have been a long time reader and I know well who are the trolls and whose posts to pay attention to in the CM forum. Many of those CMs have made outstanding arguments which I, as a Doctor, fully support. I have never played a CM but I have read alot about them and come to respect them.

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Pahdbacca wrote:

How long have you been a CM? I have beena masteron one server or another for about 13 months now.

Just curious.

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Canadian's been a CM for at least 9 months now. He's very good at PvP.