Combat Medic Archive

Thread: If you want 75% reduction, you should look at these numbers (long post)

RhenGordon
Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:40 pm
#1


I have been hearing a lot about how Combat Medics need 75% reduction. Well I wanted to try and find out what it would be like to be limited to a 75% reduction penalty in combat. So I ran an expirement with the help of my wife's Novice Pistoleer character, (she doesn't play much).

I chose to use health instead of mind because I wanted to see what the qualities of a fully buffed person would be on regeneration. Since I had no way to buff up the mind of my wife's character to a level that most PvPers would be buffed to, I decided to use health poisons instead. I intend to do the same test on mind poisons soon just to put the issue at rest.


Below are the poisons that I created. The most powerful (effective) poison I could make with the current resources I have was 266, this poison ticks for around 532 points of damage. I decided to figure the proper 75% reduction I subtracted 75% of 532 from 532 and got 133. Since we all know a master medic can double the effectiveness of his poisons I figured that I would need a poison with about a 66 or 67 effectiveness. As you will see below I never really was able to get that low, 74 was as close as I could get.



  1. A Health Poison; 76 Potency, 74 effectiveness, 118 duration (expiremented Potency)

  2. B Health Poison, 101 potency, 83 effectiveness, 124 duration (expiremented Potency)

  3. C Health Poison 127 Potency, 100 effectiveness, 115 duration (expiremented Potency)

  4. C Health Poison 94 Potency, 266 effectiveness, 208 duration (fully expiremented in effectiveness)

So then being a master doctor as well, I took some of my buff packs, not the best I could find just some average ones and buffed all the stats I could buff. I also had my wife drink some brandy and take a muon gold. After all the buffing was complete, here were the stats on the control subject.



  1. Health 2077

  2. Strength 1464 with 299 encumbrance

  3. Constitution 1259 with 299 encumbrance

  4. Action 2001

  5. Quickness 1628 with 322 encumbrance

  6. Stamina 1036 with 322 encumbrance

  7. Mind 1736

  8. Focus 994 with 434 encumbrance

  9. Willpower 1302 with 434 encumbrance

Let the poisoning begin!!!


You have to love a game where you can poison your wife and not have to worry about getting jailed. So I started out slow with the A poison. I decided I would do it two different ways, one time sitting and one time standing just to see what regeneration would be like on each of those.


Here are the stats on the A poison



Sitting:



  • The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage

  • The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1807

  • 2077 - 1807 = a net damage on this poison of 270 points over96 seconds.

  • NET damage per second is2.8 points per second.

  • Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds

  • Total Damage per second was 18.76 points.

Standing



  • The poison ticked 12 times for 150 - 154 points of damage

  • The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1150

  • 2077 - 1150 = a net damage on this poison of 927 points over 96 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 9.6 points per second

  • Total damage done was 1800 points over 96 seconds

  • Total damage per second was 18.76 points

That is as close to 75% reduction in damage as I can get. Those are way less than stellar stats. Lets go ahead and look at the other poisons too though



Health B Poison


Sitting



  • The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick

  • The lowest the health on the subject reached was 1650

  • 2077- 1650 = a net damage on this poison of 427 over 104 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 4.1 points per second

  • Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds

  • Total damage per second was 20.75

Standing



  • The poison ticked 13 times for 166 per tick

  • the lowest the health bar reached was 835

  • 2077 - 835 = a net damage on this poison of 1242 over 104 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 11.9

  • Total Damage done was 2158 over 104 seconds

  • Total damage per second was 20.75

Health C poison, low expirementation


Sitting



  • The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick

  • the lowest the health bar reached was 1230

  • 2077 - 1230 = a net damage on this poison of 847 over 96 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 8.8 points of damage

  • Total Damagedone was 2400 points over96 seconds

  • Total damage per second was 25 points

Standing



  • The poison ticked 12 times for 200 per tick

  • the lowest the health bar got was 534

  • 2077 - 534 = a net damage of 1543 over 96 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 16 points

  • Total Damage done was 2400 points over 96 seconds

  • Total damage per second was 25 points

NOW FOR THE BIG BOY


Sitting



  • The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage

  • The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took7 ticks before the bar reached a 1

  • 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second

  • Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *

  • Total damage per second was 66 points *

Standing



  • The poison ticked 21 times for 532 points of damage

  • The lowest the health bar got was 1. It took 5 ticks before it reached 1

  • 2077 - 1 = a net damage of 2076 over 168 seconds

  • NET damage per second was 12.3 points per second

  • Total Damage that could have been done was 11172 *

  • Total damage per second was 66 points *

So what do these number all mean.


Well if we introduce the 75% reduction in poisons like many of the nerfers want to do, we see that even a person fully buffed and standing, would not have any trouble living through the poison. Of course if the duration was longer it would be more problematic, but since this character was healing back 136 points for every tick of 150 points, and considering the poison I used would be more powerful than the 75% reduced poison, we can extrapolate pretty well that poisons would have little if any effect on a player.


Now when we consider the best poison I can make. The most damage that poison seems like a lot, but when you consider that the poison takes almost 3 minutes to do that kind of damage we see that our actual damage output is still much less than almost any combat character can do.When you also consider thatnearly 9000 points of that damage is lost because we cannot incapacitate youwill find that the actual damage per second of our poison is much less than the 66 that is being reflected.I noticed that my wife with her pistol was able to hit me for 75 - 120 points of damage every second. Keeping that in mind, even with misses and dodges a master pistoleer should easily outdamage any combat medic.


We can also see by these numbers that it takes at least40 seconds for my poison to bring a character to a single point. This is much longer than the reported 4 seconds that I have heard some nerfers cry.


Now I know some of you are going to squawk and say that I fudged the numbers. Well you don't have to believe me, go out and run the test yourself, or come on Ahazi and I will run the test on you personally.


My conclusions are that Combat medic is just about right in terms of damage output. We are already suffering from a 75% damage reduction as many of us say. You can feel free to disagree, but there are the numbers right in front of you.


I know this is long, if you made it this far, then I owe you a soda!




>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pahdbacca
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:35 pm
#2

You owe me soda (we call it pop out here in Michigan though)


Good study. Texxie could prolly use these numbers.





-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
Gouta
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:45 pm
#3

Excellent Post Rhen, hate to see it 1 starred.

5 stars for you
RhenGordon
Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:16 pm
#4






Gouta wrote:
Excellent Post Rhen, hate to see it 1 starred.

5 stars for you




Yeah I hated that it was that long, I hope I got one starred because of the length. Unfortunately I fear that there are nerf cryers out there that will one star it because they do not want to see the truth.



>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Morganite
Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:23 am
#5






maddogs wrote:

and when that time comse ill fill for ya


but untill then yoour ruining pvp








His last 2 posts just set the english language back at least 250 years...


The problem isnt our health poisons (bad stats, come hit me up for better stuff for a better test), it

s our mind poisons, plain and simple..



MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
CMMaster
Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:52 am
#6

Very well put most people dont realize that a full 75% reduction would make the class useless when it comes to dmg.



Don't Bother______________
Masta' Shake
I really have no more witty statements to say anymore about this damn game

RhenGordon
Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:55 am
#7






Morganite wrote:





maddogs wrote:

and when that time comse ill fill for ya


but untill then yoour ruining pvp








His last 2 posts just set the english language back at least 250 years...


The problem isnt our health poisons (bad stats, come hit me up for better stuff for a better test), it

s our mind poisons, plain and simple..






Morganite, I think you missed the point of the expirement.


This was not to test the best poisons in the game and the damage they do, it was to test to see what a 75% reduction in the game would do. Also it was not to test the best buffed player in the game either.


These stats are not the best anyone can make, that was the point, try to do something that was about average. Sure you can make a stronger poison and we all know that, you can make a stronger buff, yeah we know that. The higher the player stats, he LESS effective poisons are going to be. The point was to show that even with marginally average stuff, a 75% reduction would render us useless.


Also I think I even mentioned in the post that I did not try this with mind poisons. I intend to try that soon just to record the difference. Unless mind damage regenerates even slower than health does, which I doubt, the numbers will still work close to the same. WHen I run the other numbers I will let you know.



>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JudasTyberius
Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:08 pm
#8

Maddogs, you just dont know how to PvP against a CM. You want some training? Come to Ahazi. I'll set you up a little crash course on how to not get hosed. You might have to read though, so you should have your helper monkey with you.



Ledo Valasio - Master Bounty Huh?
maddogs
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:55 pm
#9

ya it be crapy 29 skill poist in combat shouldint get you any were fast


but look at commandos with the dot nerf we now have the lowest dps


all other combat profesions can out dam us by 2-5x (2 being the lower output profesions 5being the higher ones)


but that dint stop the devs did it we had to be made to follow the ruels of the game even tho it make us suck


and it wont stop the devs when it comes to cm ithere


and no matter what any one says we all know its comming and no amount of crying will stop it


we commandos howed threw facts around baged pleeded and in the end cryed


we go up agenst a armored buff person we know we lost befor we even try


so shell it be with cm



===============================================================


Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

maddogs
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:57 pm
#10

and when that time comse ill fill for ya


but untill then yoour ruining pvp





===============================================================


Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

maddogs
Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:18 pm
#11






JudasTyberius wrote:
Maddogs, you just dont know how to PvP against a CM. You want some training? Come to Ahazi. I'll set you up a little crash course on how to not get hosed. You might have to read though, so you should have your helper monkey with you.






lol this is to funy i know quite well how to pvp im not even haveing proplems with cm im a doc master combat medic


im not the one who is saying that every one is saying thattho i do personly belive its true


the fact is not matter how much we cm cry that we dont want 75% pvp reduction its comming


every profesion has to obay the combat ruels and its combat medics next


sure i like being uber and takeing out 30+ ppl with no combat skills but down deep i know what im doing is rong and i know it has to change just like you do





===============================================================


Daniel' Judson-Leonheart

VTmoon
Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:24 pm
#12






maddogs wrote:





JudasTyberius wrote:
Maddogs, you just dont know how to PvP against a CM. You want some training? Come to Ahazi. I'll set you up a little crash course on how to not get hosed. You might have to read though, so you should have your helper monkey with you.






lol this is to funy i know quite well how to pvp im not even haveing proplems with cm im a doc master combat medic


im not the one who is saying that every one is saying thattho i do personly belive its true


the fact is not matter how much we cm cry that we dont want 75% pvp reduction its comming


every profesion has to obay the combat ruels and its combat medics next


sure i like being uber and takeing out 30+ ppl with no combat skills but down deep i know what im doing is rong and i know it has to change just like you do






man you must be a god in this game if you truely believe we can surviv a 50% reduction in this game.





Mono Noke
.......:::: Proud ex-Leader of Oasis ::::.......
.......:::: DarkLord of The Troll Order ::::.......
.......:::: Colonel Of the Imperial Army ::::.......
- Bike Repair, Perfect LS Tools @ Crystal Oasis Dantooine, -4295 6915
Morganite
Sat Mar 27, 2004 8:01 pm
#13

I understand Rhen completely, I'm just saying a test with the best non venom health poison is the closest you can get tothe same test with an avg mind poison. I have gotten people with health poison before, but I never once got a nasty tell about it, it is always the mind poison that causes us trouble.



I have always said our damage output isn't what people hate, it is our ability to target an unhealable pool, and people's lack of doctor support. I mean, honestly, it doesnt matter what figure you buff your mind too, our damage will take it out. People hate rifleman for the same basic reason (mind hits). If tommorow we couldnt make mind poison, and rifleman targetted action with their specials instead of mind, nobody would care anymore. They cry for us to get a damage reduction because we go after mind. They all probably preferred it when t21's were not around. I do not agree with the nerf-herders arguement, but I understand their frustration. We own any class that isn't a tef'ing TK, or rifleman, end of story.


I am starting to think these worthless Dev's are the cause for our recent pain, not the people crying for us to be nerfed. Our issues have existed for months, they know our damage is fine, they know it is our ability to go for the mind with equal power as a rifleman, they just dont care about their customers obviously. Give them mind stims, or give us area cure's, give doctors innoculations, a better chance to resist us, something to shut them up. Their lack of doing something intelligent to help these people out is causing our troubles, not us, or the people complaining. Can better tactics help them out? Sure, but you cant ask people to smarten up overnight, so give them some help... They refuse to do it, it is leading to our downfall....



MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
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