Combat Medic Archive
Thread: A CM from the perspective of a Jedi
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Damon123
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:31 pm
#1
Well, everybody is calling the NERF-bat on them. I honestly ask: why?
True, almost every time I died was from some nasty poison/disease combo mixed on me in a matter of a second by unsing havla. But that is no more.
Again - last time I died the poison/disease was applied to me through a wall (THAT needs a fix).
BUT:
If a single CM/whatever dares to challenge me he is dead. Plain and simple. Regardless what poison/disease he uses, I knock him or run and heal myself (though this is sometimes hard with the gimped heal from Jedi), But he can only apply ONE thing to me in the time I need to get out of range or kill him.
If heuses disease, I drop a brandy - will never lose more than my original mind value. If he applies a poison, I simply kill and clear off the poison afterwards.
What makes CM so deadly is that their GREAT (maybe TOO great) role in group combat. Its hard to identify the CM(s) when 20 people run to you. And here is the problem - HOW is it that the OWN group is not affected? Are the poisons/diseases somehow intelligent? An area poion should work like a bomb - compare it to a bomb that detonates in the middle of 40 people - ALL are harmed, not only those you would like to.
You maythink that applies to ALL AoE, such as from weapons (maybe not from TKA).But the difference is that an AoE from any other class does NOT doom you to death upon impact. It requires further beating/shooting.
I suggest that an AoE poison/disease should work on ALL people except the CM himself (implying he knows how to use it properly). This would solve some of the current issues:
1. CMs would not DARE to use their stuff in group battles (only as a last resort - comparable to the nukweapons) or in very RARE tactical scenarios.
they would use SINGLE poisons/diseases instead - balancing group PvP a bit. This may doom a SINGLE player to clone, but not 20 at once.
2. CMs can use their 600+ tic stuff in future without further limitation - giving them the power they need in PvE.
3. No real need for other professions to take some doc - they would have a fair chance of survival. 1 on 1 a real ranged profession has a fair chance. 1 on 1 a melee would be dead (as it should be - leaving the CM as melee (shall I say def-stacker)counter as it should). So neither the CM nor a true Def-stacker would be uber - each has its counter. Ranged over CM over melee over ranged and so on.
So - by implementing a "friendly-fire"-option (or a removal of "intelligent" nukes) the CM would be way better balanced with others as well as pure Def-stackers would have a harder time.
Just my 2 cents.
D.
RebRifle
Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:22 pm
#2
Exactly alone we are easily beatable, but in a group we are deadly as it should be. Why? you might ask. Very simple e have back up the poisnos and diseases and stim are all support ya still have to put that rifle bolt into there head.
Dalraich
Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:39 am
#3
I seriously hope that your joking when you say that having 600+tick poisons makes us powerful in PVE. 600 damage every 7 seconds whereas tkas can hit for 2k a second hmm.... thats balanced.
Damon123 wrote:
Well, everybody is calling the NERF-bat on them. I honestly ask: why?
True, almost every time I died was from some nasty poison/disease combo mixed on me in a matter of a second by unsing havla. But that is no more.
Again - last time I died the poison/disease was applied to me through a wall (THAT needs a fix).
BUT:
If a single CM/whatever dares to challenge me he is dead. Plain and simple. Regardless what poison/disease he uses, I knock him or run and heal myself (though this is sometimes hard with the gimped heal from Jedi), But he can only apply ONE thing to me in the time I need to get out of range or kill him.
If heuses disease, I drop a brandy - will never lose more than my original mind value. If he applies a poison, I simply kill and clear off the poison afterwards.
What makes CM so deadly is that their GREAT (maybe TOO great) role in group combat. Its hard to identify the CM(s) when 20 people run to you. And here is the problem - HOW is it that the OWN group is not affected? Are the poisons/diseases somehow intelligent? An area poion should work like a bomb - compare it to a bomb that detonates in the middle of 40 people - ALL are harmed, not only those you would like to.
You maythink that applies to ALL AoE, such as from weapons (maybe not from TKA).But the difference is that an AoE from any other class does NOT doom you to death upon impact. It requires further beating/shooting.
I suggest that an AoE poison/disease should work on ALL people except the CM himself (implying he knows how to use it properly). This would solve some of the current issues:
1. CMs would not DARE to use their stuff in group battles (only as a last resort - comparable to the nukweapons) or in very RARE tactical scenarios.
they would use SINGLE poisons/diseases instead - balancing group PvP a bit. This may doom a SINGLE player to clone, but not 20 at once.
2. CMs can use their 600+ tic stuff in future without further limitation - giving them the power they need in PvE.
3. No real need for other professions to take some doc - they would have a fair chance of survival. 1 on 1 a real ranged profession has a fair chance. 1 on 1 a melee would be dead (as it should be - leaving the CM as melee (shall I say def-stacker)counter as it should). So neither the CM nor a true Def-stacker would be uber - each has its counter. Ranged over CM over melee over ranged and so on.
So - by implementing a "friendly-fire"-option (or a removal of "intelligent" nukes) the CM would be way better balanced with others as well as pure Def-stackers would have a harder time.
Just my 2 cents.
D.
David25
Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:46 am
#4
If you give 1 profession friendly fire...better give em all it.
*would love to see huge zerg groups kill themselves*
Ialwysdie
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:06 am
#5
I'm not a CM but read the forums of several professions and can say that making an AOE weapon damage friendly targets for only ONE profession is bogus.
Might as well have the commandos area flame start friendlies on fire.
How about the Pistoleers Fan shot that should be pretty interesting if it damaged friendlies.
Watch a Pikeman accidentally KD his Own entire group.
Yes an Area Poison does sound like it should be that but to suggest it ony pertain to one profession is pretty much just trying to keep that profession from using it's AOE's.
I've played with AOE's damaging friendlies and yes it really makes u curb their usage. I came from playing Planetside and really had to be careful.
Brainplay
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:11 am
#6
Damon123 wrote:
1. CMs would not DARE to use their stuff in group battles (only as a last resort - comparable to the nukweapons) or in very RARE tactical scenarios. So when exactly are we going to use AoE poisons then? Not on the corvette, DWB, or even a rancor lair.
they would use SINGLE poisons/diseases instead - balancing group PvP a bit. This may doom a SINGLE player to clone, but not 20 at once. Group attacking is one of THE few unique features we have. Making it so that we would only be able to attack one person at a time with a CRAFTED poison pack with LIMITED charges is way way wrong.
2. CMs can use their 600+ tic stuff in future without further limitation - giving them the power they need in PvE. Lets see...Krayts...GDK....Peko Peko albatross....can anyone think of any other place where I would really need a poison when I can take down a creature with a weapon in about 1/10 the time of a poison? Maybe that named nightsister at the bottom of the caves but thats it. Notice how its only large scale creatures and nothing less. It also take 45min and several applications just to do one of these.
The thing you are suggesting here is the very same reason why a commando wont touch a proton grenade with a 10 foot pole. As it stands there was a mention somewhere about grenades becoming a viable use item later on.
Make all 3 HAM bars equal including the buffs they receive, install a 4th non attackable "fatigue" pool that drains for specials, make the MIND healable. Do that and DoT's are no longer a big issue. If the MIND is buffable to doctor proportions and healable any poison is mitigated by the buff and stims slow it's process even further until a doctor can cure it.
David25
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:16 am
#7
Ialwysdie wrote:
I'm not a CM but read the forums of several professions and can say that making an AOE weapon damage friendly targets for only ONE profession is bogus.
Might as well have the commandos area flame start friendlies on fire.
How about the Pistoleers Fan shot that should be pretty interesting if it damaged friendlies.
Watch a Pikeman accidentally KD his Own entire group.
Yes an Area Poison does sound like it should be that but to suggest it ony pertain to one profession is pretty much just trying to keep that profession from using it's AOE's.
I've played with AOE's damaging friendlies and yes it really makes u curb their usage. I came from playing Planetside and really had to be careful.
wow. some of those things would really crack me up....I'd love for them to put it in just to see...
gargomell
Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:41 am
#8
David25 wrote:
Ialwysdie wrote:I'm not a CM but read the forums of several professions and can say that making an AOE weapon damage friendly targets for only ONE profession is bogus.Might as well have the commandos area flame start friendlies on fire.How about the Pistoleers Fan shot that should be pretty interesting if it damaged friendlies.Watch a Pikeman accidentally KD his Own entire group.Yes an Area Poison does sound like it should be that but to suggest it ony pertain to one profession is pretty much just trying to keep that profession from using it's AOE's.I've played with AOE's damaging friendlies and yes it really makes u curb their usage. I came from playing Planetside and really had to be careful.
wow. some of those things would really crack me up....I'd love for them to put it in just to see...
What about this one?
Saber throw should be non-spammable. I mean, if a Jedi throws his saber at me, does it automatically return to his grasp? It should not, he should have to go and retrieve it. I understand he can use the force to make his saber move a small distance, one or two arms length, or what not, but 10 to 20m, come on. It's a saber, not a boomerang. I am simply pointing out, there are inconsistencies with every profession. How about other AoE attacks, and Cone attacks, should those also be capable of friendly fire damage?
jkray8472
Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:49 am
#9
gargomell wrote:
What about this one?
Saber throw should be non-spammable. I mean, if a Jedi throws his saber at me, does it automatically return to his grasp? It should not, he should have to go and retrieve it. I understand he can use the force to make his saber move a small distance, one or two arms length, or what not, but 10 to 20m, come on. It's a saber, not a boomerang. I am simply pointing out, there are inconsistencies with every profession. How about other AoE attacks, and Cone attacks, should those also be capable of friendly fire damage?
Actually, saber throw is pretty realistic in terms of the Force. 10-20m...that's nothing. If a decent Jedi can see something, he can manipulate it. And the saber does not weigh very much.
Now, I do think the delay on saber throw should be higher...needs to account for the time it's in the air...
Bamboozle
Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:31 pm
#10
Damon123 wrote:
I suggest that an AoE poison/disease should work on ALL people except the CM himself (implying he knows how to use it properly).
Yay! I'd go to coronet and poison/disease all the AFK-spammers. 
Friendly fire doesn't work, because of:
a) Lag issues (You would poison your friends constantly because they were actually 50m to the left of where you thought they were.)
b) Griefing issues
SioBabble
Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:15 pm
#11
The concept of friendly fire is very appealing to me, but Bamboozle is right on both counts. In terms of game practicality, there are just too many issues that can't be easily resolved.
Bamboozle wrote:
Damon123 wrote:
I suggest that an AoE poison/disease should work on ALL people except the CM himself (implying he knows how to use it properly).
Yay! I'd go to coronet and poison/disease all the AFK-spammers.
Friendly fire doesn't work, because of:
a) Lag issues (You would poison your friends constantly because they were actually 50m to the left of where you thought they were.)
b) Griefing issues
Wotoh
Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:20 pm
#12
You must be joking...if you give friendly fire to any class that uses aoe its going to destroy the class. The CM might as well not be in the fight. He attacks with an aoe, does the dmg to both sides...if he heals he heals both sides of the fight...neither hurts/helps (depending on resists I suppose) the battle much and is pointless imo.
Ziocyte
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:03 am
#13
As the thread is titled "from the perspective of a Jedi"... wich is possibly the best perspective one could have in this matter (next to doctor obviously).
Well, there are about 29 or so other professions out there with no ability to cure them selves of disease or poison. These other 29 professions do not have the natural gift of uninhibited damage such as LS damage, so that is 2 strikes against the average player base vs Combat Medics.
The Combat Medic is a cool idea, and I give big props to people who play CM with good intentions. A warefare medic with the innate ability to be effective in real time combat is an AWSOME idea. But unfortunately (not to say there are not any) I have never met a CM who plays the profession the way it was probably intended.
Instead I'm seeing more and more Mos Eisley noobs comming out of the Medical center with mish-mash bone armor/marbari suits and Novice Combat Medic title than there should be. This most likely because of the "CM lord of the universe" stories they read here on the message boards that tell them there is a very easy way to be able to cause massive amounts of chaos w/o much effort.
Strictly from a balance issue there are too many loop holes within the CM profession. Why, for instance, are all of the worst griefing tools built into one profession (CM)? What purpose does disease play? not only do you need to kill someone but you also need to black bar them?? lol that one is beyond me... Also, if a CM disease incap, triple incaps someone, that person takes Item decay... again, why is this even in the game??
There HAS to be some sort of mitigation, or repelent for CM poison/disease because it should not be a requirment to carry a pocket Doc every time you want to go PvP...
Jedi should be godly... Combat Medics should not
-Ziocyte
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