Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Is Our Correspondant a Master CM?
So in your logic, the Volunteer politician in my area are immune to being held accountable for the actions they perform?
In my area many of the Politicians serve as volunteers, should that make them immune to accountablity. The president of your child's (or your PTA if you are a child...) PTA is a Volunteer, does everyone have to bow down and kiss their butt?
Think about it, just because someone is a volunteer (with considerably more influence in this case than the average gamer) does not make them a God and immune from any scrutiny of their performance.
Let people have their say, don't you get tired of beating that same volunteer drum. At least when you want to tell ppl what they can and can't say, why don't you try and use something logical, especially since you appear to fancy yourself a great logician.
Now to the more important arguement about the balancing of combat classes.
Your use of a chef is way off base. At no point is chef considered a combat class. Perhaps if that chef had a master pistoleer title to go with him then you can use your analogy, but as far as combat is concerned that character is no longer a chef, but instead a master pistoleer. I certainly hope that you don't consider a Combat Medic should be on par w/a chef. When they start making combat classes and noncombat classes balanced in PvP then that would be a problem.
Notice I said COMBAT classes, every combat class should have a balance. Otherwise then why would ppl who are very interested in PvP ever be anything but the Best combat class around. This is not to say that every combat class shouuld be equal footing in all areas,just that each class have it's checks and balaces that at least one other class is able to beat. To date, the CM is a pretty good balance against the BH. I am able to take on about any BH (when all my stats, including mind,are buffed) and have a good chance of winning. Mind you, I will not win everytime, but at least we have a contest there. Where is the logic in taking the one check that the BH has out of the equation? It should look like a circle, every combat class should have their weaknesses that another class has much power in. As the Test Center stands, we have effectively removed the solo combat out of Combat Medic. It's a shame that many ppl forget that we aren't just ranged healers, instead we are considered a Combat class. Lets try and keep it that way, eh?
Remember our correspondents have labled this nerf as a fix to "grief" incapping and looting rights. This bandaid fix is unacceptable. Think of the alternatives, like lowering the 5 minute grace period to 2-3 minutes. Giving every class a suicide command. Counting poison and all Bleeds, fire as actual combat dmg so that the person/critter will always have a killer marked. There are tons of other fixes out there that do not involve actually unfairly nerfing 1 class (I say infair because similar ticking dmgs, ie bleed, flames, still cause incaps), why not implement one of them instead of this nerf?
I just can't understand why a small, but vocal, minority of ppl on the CM board would support a band-aid fix that involves nerfing a combat classes only viable attack. The CMs have no other viable attacks but poison, and don't give me that arguement that CMs have a great attack w/Ranged Weapon Support. That only involves cerfification in the cdef and one crappy weapon per marksman weapon (such as the "all powerful" D18, LOL). Making us take up another combat skill, instead of making out combat skill viable, would be similar to telling a Master Pistoleer that he had to finish all his kills w/a carbine or rifle. How ignorant would it be to force a Commando to abandon his commando weapons in a fight and then to use his unarmed attacks to finsih off his target? That is exactly what this change does to the CM combat class.
I have asked a question in one of my posts and untill someone can fully answer that question i will never be totaly against the +1 cap. Here is the question again for the people that missed it the first time. Why do you feel that a CM should be able to solo and own everyone in a PvP conflict when our skills are based around group play?
also, if you still feel so strongly that I am not forwarding both sides of the issue, and I am only " Pushing " for what I think is right, do as I have posted in a few threads before and Start a vote to get me out. The next guy in will see what has happened, what I posted, and what I have said, then the truth would be known to him but he wouldn't be able to say anything about it
Huh? (And first off I am a Master CM as well as a Master Doc soI do ahve a stake in this change, sorry.)
AquitisCM wrote:
The people who are in charge of this of reporting to the devs are asleep at the wheel by not telling the devs that we strongly opposed to this change
The person in charge of reporting the views of the CMs as they have been posting on this matter has actually done so. However holding him accountable for the change itself is really giving him far more power than he has. I can tell you that he HAS posted the dissenting viewpoints and ideas on the Corre Forum. If the change goes through, however, it won't be because of Kavedawgs pusihing it or hindering it at all. It will bet he choice of the Devs. You can ony hold him accountable for what he has been charged to do, which is to act as an information conduit between the Devs and the CMs on the forum. He has, in fact, done that and that is all he CAN do.
Why blame him for something he can't control?
Besides, should he not have a personal opinion that he espouses here? If you were the CM correspondent and all othe other CMs LOVED this change but you, in your infinite wisdom, saw this change as the most horrible nerf ever, would you just not say it on these forums? Wouldn't you pass on both sides of the argument for the Devs to see because it was your duty to do so? Nothing more or less has occured here.
If you want to know the truth, just ask another correspondent to simply confirm or deny that Kavedawg has, indeed, presented both sides of the arguments for or against this issue. (Since you guys don't seem to want to believe me or him about it.)
Ok time to toss my two cents into this thread.
Aquitis, you have this belief that all advanced classes should be equal. A Master Pistoleer should be equal to a master bounty hunter. The same for a Master Rifleman should be equal to a Master Commando.
Why would they be equal? If you can have the same powers and abilities at equal strength.Then why are there multiple classes. Because there is a price to play that Master BH. You have less skill points to spend on other things. The same with Master Commando. So thinking that a combat medic can stand toe to toe against them is well foolish. Though we can stand toe to toe on them on our type of battle.
When we have time to toss and area poison and a single Poison and double tax their pools. then pull out a gun and shoot them one time as they sit at 1pt and remember they sit at that one hit point till someone shoots them. It could be you or it could be someone else. It is a very small price to pay to finally be able to loot things that we kill in pve.
But since you make a big deal of it. Then i guess you think that combat medics are supposed to be a one mean poison machine. We are a good thing to bring to a fight. We are not the entire fight. We are just one aspect of it. Though that aspect is a very powerful aspect. Because we bring Healing and Damage to a fight. Tossing an area Health poison in the middle of a fight can basically turn the tide of battle. Having Two combat Medics toss it will end a battle. But we also bring area healing. One thing that wetake for granted. Being able to heal everyonewithin 30M or more for some of us.
And now to AllGalaxies.
You remind me of a chihuahua. Do you know that? Always nipping at someone heels namely KaveDawg''s heels. First you make this big whine about this 1 pt thing. When you obviously are misinformed about a few things
Let me explain.
I say infair because similar ticking dmgs, ie bleed, flames, still cause incaps
Those are your words. Well let me inform you of something. Ready?
Bleeds no longer incap in PvE. Found that out last night. So now Pistoleers and anyone else using some form of bleed is stopped by that 1hp rule.
So it is not just isolated to Combat medics. Now how do i know this? Because i play on the test center. Why dont you do the same thing so you can keep up with the times?
Also AllGalaxies let me point this out. We are not the top of the food chain in PvP. If you want PvP and be a uber character. Combat Medic is not the way to go. Try Commando or BH with some CH. There is the killing power you desire. Also take novice Medic. That way you can heal yourself with StimBs. Then you can send in your pets to tank for you while you shoot rockets and flames at the person or beast.
Combat medics are the clerics of the realms. We heal and we hurt. We do better in the healing department than any class on this server. Because doctors can not heal everyone in 30m with one stim pack. We can.
Also, On your post, that all a combat medicto fight with are poisons. Well that is not true either. We have diseases. Now since the death and incay is coming into the game and they fixed Area diseases C and hopefully B. Also the ARC. Now we can use our tools of the trade and if the other character gets killed by his friend. I hope he enjoys the cost of it. Because it will add up. So they can either suffer or prepare to file chapter 8.
Well that is all i have to say to these two people
Kavedawg,
Your doing a good job as a correspondent. Dont let these preadolescent teens bring you down.Your doing a goodjob. Its justthese two have a thought thatMCMs should be gods.See ya on theTC if i can keep if fromcrashing. <g>
"Why do you feel that a CM should be able to solo and own everyone in a PvP conflict when our skills are based around group play?"
Now I dont want to 'own' everyone. However I do like being able to stand toe to toe (solo) with a BH or Commando, but at that level when we have 3 master classes squaring off in solo combat it should be a sight to see on your feet not your back... But on to the real reason I replied:
You may want to ask yourself what makes you think that our skills are heavilly group based?
We have 3 skills. Poisons/Disease, Healing, Crafting. Of those 3 skills only one has an inter-group benefit. Ive been PvPing since I got MCM and from what I encounter, I dont need to heal with nearly everyone having their own stimB. So I keep an eye out for my health and lob my AoE or singles...
I am pretty good at soloing but that is at the cost of 4 pistoleer boxes... I could only image what Id be like without a descent weapon skill.
I dont think that there is a complete and acurate definition of our class. I think that assuming what the role of the MCM is, completely undermines the whole purpous of what role playing a charachter is... And at that point there shouldnt be distinctions on what is the right and wrong way to play the class.
However there does need to be balance and currently there is no balance. After the amount of points and anti-skills(ranged support4) required to reach MCM, it only makes us feel like 'yeah I should whoop butt and whoop it well' solo or not...
I do however disagree with what you believe our primary role in the game is... We are not group-bound we can and should be as self sufficient as what our skill points allow...
Now get me a pestiside sprayer cert for my class weapon hehe jk
Otu
I believe the pain that a MCM feels for seeing this +1 poison floor cap comes from the amount of skill points used to get to MCM. I think everyone can agree that the MCM requiresalot of skill points and being considered a combat class that we should have had the poison damage count as us doing the damage ourselves, not some unidentifiable system thingy that does not let us loot and gain faction points.
If we look at the other combat classes, MCM falls in as 3rd highest required number of skill points dedicated to the class. BH is 1st, Commando is 2nd. Should a MCM be able to hands down duel a BH if the skills of the player were the same? No. Commando? No. Yet with less player skill, the current MCM can beat these classes quite easily with the toss and hide method. I know I am just sorta repeating with what Otu said, but the way it is now is not how it is supposed to work.
Do I think that the +1 cap is wrong? Yeah, they could have done it much better another way. All I see is that this will be a temporary fix for our problems. But keeping it the way it is now is more broken without this change. With the fixing of the ARC, I bet I could get my poisons doing past 600 pts of damage per tick easily. How will I fight in PvP with the new changes? Toss, hide, run for 2 min, go prone, shoot. I think that MCMs will still beat BHs or Commandos easily if they are taken by surprise.
But here is the biggest gripe I have. A group of people that get surprised by an AoE poison and have no doctor to cure will always be able to kill me. There is no way to shoot everyone with that last parting shot to incap them all at once. A MCM before didnt have too much of a problem if he caught the group unawares with an AoE poison. But with the cap, there is no way that a terrorist could kill so many people in a fell swoop. I ain't saying that that should be the norm for all PvP action regarding groups vs a smart MCM with the drop on em, but it should still be possible. Afterall, surprise in guerrilla warfare counts for ALOT.
If what someone said earlier about a BH's burn or Commando flame special abilities or weapon bleeds are not true and that only the DoTs from a Combat Medic are affected by this, then we have a serious problem and complaint to push to the Devs.
Casper --- read my thread and please make a post that is relevant to my thoughts on the PvP combat system if you want to attempt to argue my point. At now point did I say I want to be the top of the foodchain, instead read my part about checks and balances, if you have a problem with that, I would love to hear some thoughts on that topic.Otherwise your are talking to yourself...
Oh yes, and I like yourlittle visual, perhaps if we get enough ppl yipping at him he will do the right thing 
At first I was the lone voice, but now more and more ppl are joing the "pack".
*Why do you feel that a CM should be able to solo and own everyone in a PvP conflict when our skills are based around group play?*
I have no desire to own everyone in PvP. Although the only reason we own in PvP is due to unhealable mind. If we where forced to use health or action poisons we would not own, because each of those stats can be healed quite well with a Stim B. At this point people will say that eventually the targets mind will wear out and the poison will incap them. Then make it so that poison no longer works after 2 incaps. I don't want to see our only form of attack not have the ability to kill. There is no other combat class that is restricted to this point. None. If we are given a weapon that will hit each HAM pool for 1pt (regardless of armor) then I would not have as big a problem. Is it still a bandaid fix and nerf? Yes. But at least they gave us a weapon to compinsate for our lack of ability to kill anything.
What about disease?Nothing more then a grief tool. The cries for CM Nerf will double if poison is taken away as a vaible option. No longer will you have suicide bombers. You will have disease strafing runs. Run in aoe disease one stat, run away. Rince and repeat.
Now if we are to be sololy support then only require me the cost of Doc. That way I Master another Combat skill with out it being Pistol, carbine, or Rifle. Simly remove the Combat ability from a CM and make them a reanged Healer. Just give me those points if CM is designed to be only a support profession.
If this fix/nerf goes in, I see the new template for PvP (if mind poison remains the be the main weapon of a PvP CM) to be that ofMCM/Master Rifleman. Why? Because nothing will change at how people respond to poison. One they charge you and you target their mind (tka or swordsman) or they run and you have to target there mind with your rifle. The lack of melee players in this game shows you that rifleman will be the popular choice.
Luchs Aks'yos
MCM/Swordsman
Starsider
Let's look at skill points first. It takes as many skill points as Commando to get to Combat Medic (Master Medic + Ranged Support IV = Master Marksman + Unarmed IV). However, a Commando can just spend 20 points in Commando (Novice + flamethrower tree) and nobody will question that they should be very powerful in combat. After all, they are THE heavy weapon class. Unlike Commando, the combat medic does not become powerful with just one tree. Most people will need at least crafting IV before their poisons are any good. In addition, CMs need the combat med use tree (at least half of it). If you skip effectiveness and speed, you won't be as good, but you can still throw a decent poison C (though you'll have to spend some crafting points on ease of use rather than effectiveness). Already that's 29 (Novice + Crafting IV + Med Use 2) skill points just to have the basic combat ability of the class. That's more skill points than a commando needs to be effective. And, of course, the numbers are equal for Master in each class.
Now, the combat medic can heal himself/herself, sure, but I've found that it's more of a PvE abiity than a PVP ability. I just recently got to where I can craft poison Cs, and before this my only combat skill was novice pistoleer. I never beat a bounty hunter or commando once in PVP one on one. I came kinda close once or twice by running away and shooting, but in the end, I always either fell to a fire DOT attack or a series of Eye Shots. But wait! I just said healing was a PvE skill and the flamethrower hits health! Ok, if fire didn't cause ENORMOUS wounds, healing would be useful, but after the DOT goes off the 2nd time, you're going to die the next time the commando hits you even if you've healed the damage. Of course, the odds of you surviving long enough to get to that second tick are pretty slim. The best counter to this is a good health buff because then the wounds are somewhat insignifcant, but that is a doctor skill, not a combat med skill. However, the Commando can be equally buffed (well, to a lesser extent in mind, but still double their normal mind) and the commando will deal direct damage much faster than a CM will ever be able to deal enough poison damage to drop one.
As for Combat Med vs. Bounty Hunter, just Expert Bounty Hunter takes 174 skill points to reach. This is more than any other single class, Master or not (It's 169 points each for Master CM and Commando). Bounty hunters get Eye Shot... in my opinion the most powerful one on one PvP skill in the game. And I don't think that should be changed. A bounty hunter should specialize in taking out players. I just got poison C packs recently, but I haven't been able to make anything that can deal mind damage as fast as a bounty hunter. Usually it's a 3 to 4 shot mind incap on me when I fight a bounty hunter... this takes maybe 10 to 15 seconds. There is no way my poison will take out the bounty hunter first. That would take at least 2 ticks, or about 24 seconds assuming the first application is successful. Also, applying a poison would take away some mind pool and probably cause me to drop one shot sooner. Unless a bounty hunter misses a lot (and with the accuracy bonus they get, they that's not likely), I don't think Combat Medics will win very often in a straight fight.
The strength of the combat medic is not raw damage, it is the fact that they have a DOT attack. That is all. One on one CMs should not, and from my experience, do not compete with Commandos or BHs for time to incap. Our power is that we've doomed the other player if we get off a poison (unless a doctor is around). We sort of ARE a kamikaze class one on one because that's the only attack we get. Yeah we'll probably die, but we've effectively neutralized the enemy as well. The main issue I'm hearing that the devs are concerned about is that the "dooming" effect causes multiple incaps. That is easy to fix. Cap the damage to 1 AFTER the first incap. Done. Sure it might not make a lot of sense, but then many things are like that in this game. It would balance very well.
Let's consider what would happen if CMs get the 1 HP poison modification...
I know what I would do if I felt like keeping the class (which I might not). I would continue using Mind Poison since it's THE PvP poison, and I would take enough rifleman to get good accuracy and speed with it, and hope I could stay alive long enough to get that last headshot in to finish the incap. Who knows, maybe it would work every few fights. But the end result would be me having to spend 30 to 40 more skill points (Rifles + Rifleman + a tree or two to get accuracy and/or speed). Then I would need more skill points than a Commando and about as many as an Expert BH, but I would be less effective than I currently am, which is the least powerful in a straight fight of the 3 big recognized "combat classes" (BH, Commando, CM).
I'm happy with the way things are now for the most part, and I woudn't mind it if poisons only incapacitated once, especially if the person had to go through the whole incapacitation period for the poison to go away (so they couldn't just be raised immediately by a CM who can heal mind and lose the poison, although there should be a slight grace period in that case so a doctor can get a chance to cure the poison before it kicks in again... but that's a special case and won't come up much probably). Seems like a fair change to me.
I must say im dissapointed not that im pointing any fingers. But i cant see any logic in this having a one point floor for poision victims. Combat Medics i think have it the hardest of any other profession and i have played them all.
Here is my problem with the +1 issue and i know that anyone who is honestly a Master Combat Medic will agree. In swg the dev's have done a good job at giving everyone a ballance a edge so to speak where that if a certain person of a certain profession played their cards rite then they would be victorious. Now dont get me wrong but this will eliminate the combat medic from being effective in PvP. A master level player in most branches can kill me in 1-2 shots so basicly the combat medic would be ineffective to just about all professions making them worthless. Cm's dont have a defence of theses special moves so before they get the chance to come back for that one shot they are dead. Im sure i will get lucky a few times but if a master level play was even half ass paying attention then they would win every time therefore not having any point to play combat medic. I mean of all the professions to nerf i mean cm i enjoy using that character but i have to say in honesty he is my weakest one. The people who are in charge of this of reporting to the devs are asleep at the wheel by not telling the devs that we strongly opposed to this change please post here too back me up on this and that master doc that was spamming the last board pleasedontpost here this is for players who have a steak in this change.
Aquitis DarkMessenger
So in your logic, the Chef should be able to stop the Bounty Hunter?
All professions aren't created equally and we're not capable of going toe to toe with them, it's not our forte. Weaken them let a teammate kill them.
And I am a Master CM and I do agree with the change.
And it's pretty save to assume our correspondent is one as well, and even if he wasn't, on Test they are given terminals so they become master. It's a moot point, so please stop picking on our VOLUNTEER correspondent.