Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM Correspondent- Kavedawg supported and still supports the stop at +1 stat PvP NERF on poison
I know, I wouldn't believe it myself but I read it. Kavedawg helped by Zarlor actually proposed this nerf by their own admission.
His response to my questioning if he now understood how big of a nerf and how utterly stupid and harmful this change is to CMs was this:
Kavedawg wrote:
So you won't be able to do a kamakzi attack against someone in PvP anymore, well...bring friends. This is the only situation I have come across so far that will change. and if I am sooooo stupid, please feel free to enlighten me with your vastamount of knowledge and wisdom otherwise < I will let you fill in the blank with your superior intelect>
...
easy fix...i will quit
and someone else can take it
1) his grasp of poison is that it isa "kamakzi" attack
2) because I disagree and call him on a prior decision he immediatly threatens to quit
First, poisoning someone and expecting the poison to actually incap them is not a wild, liberal idea. You get poisoned it slowly ticks away and you incapp if it is not healedin time. The real problem was that they spread the incap timing to far apart and it no longer 3 incaps=death, so people complained about that and with justification. This is an example of fixing some other issues of what was termed "griefing" by nerfing the class ability. After all, when I get bled I can get incapped over and over by it if I am not a character with enough medical ability to have it healed. Why unjustly put this on combat medics, well it looks like because our temporary correspondent and our now permanent corespondent layed the groundwork.
But, for you clarification I will give you an example of how poison works and should work w/o being "Kamakazi":
I was going to duel a master BH to see how it went. Duel started and luckily on first try I poisoned his mind. He spammed eyeshot and I was able to weave about and most missed. He coonected w/a couple good eysehots and I was incapped about 30 meters from him (I didn't kite him just moved to throw off his aim). While he was on his way to come DB me he fell to the mind poison. I got up first, ran up to him, yelled Bang Bang and ended the duel. Now I won because I spent alot of points in CM and the poison worked. With the proposed nerf he would have not been incapped and I would have been DBed. That is an example that doesn't include the "Kamakazi" tactic that Kavedawg could see as teh only use of poison.
There is no question that this is a nerf. We are combat medics after all, not doctors. We should have the ability to incap with our special abilities in our profession. I didn't spend all those points to master something then have my only effective combat ability yanked. And the arguement about Ranged Weapon Support --- there is no certification of any weapons in this skill. If the intent was for a CM to have to shoot things to death, then there would have been a requirement for us to actually train in a weapon skill.
Threatening to quit as correspondent? That is utterly childish, there are going to be plenty of ppl that disagree with you and "gasp" actually post it. Get used to it, grow some thick skin or whatever it takes.
I think it is fair that this be recognized and posted on it's own individual thread. I would hope that CaveDawg can actually see what a nerf this is on us, and withdraw his support for it.
Flame all you want, but I am entitled to my say on this board just as the rest of you are, I don't appreciate suggestions from some contributers of this board, that I should be banned or not allowed to post because I don't agree or haven't "posted enought" to have a voice. That sounds like a really rotten policy to me.
Everyone has a voice and is entitled to their own opinions. Also, you do not need to be a correspondant to directly submit your ideas to the devs.... just use the submit feedback page:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/submit_feedback.jsp?page=Submit%20Feedback
A correspondant volunteers his/her personal (play) time to improve the game. And while I may disagree with some of Kavedawg's opinions, Ido have great admiration forhis dedication to the game. It is, however, Kavedawg's right to quit anytime he feels like it; he does not owe us any explanation.... it is his decision to make.
Galaxies,
It is your right to post your opinion here...I won't flame you for that. But it is Kave's right to say he's had enough when he has (and I hope it's no time soon). I would, however that if you wish to try to pursuade people and prevent this from changing, you're going to have to do a lot more than calling ideas stupid or people childish.
Leave it all alone, and just argue your points.
And if you want, please feel free to point some of that anger towars me, because I support it to date. I'm willing to have my mind changed, but when i can throw poisons (without CM effectiveness loot mods) 86m with near 100% accuracy and incap an opponent while leaving them no chance to retaliate, I tend to believe something needs to be done.
I'll keep my mind open to your point if view if you can do the same.
Jacore MD/MCM, Tempest
AllGalaxies wrote:
Kavedawg wrote:
I did like the idea of the poison stopping at +1 at first, untill I started to think about the PvP implications. It was an easy fix that solved more problems than it caused so the dev went with it
I am curious, do younow seehow utterly stupid and harmful this is to the CM profession Kavedawg?
This is the post that got me, I took it personal that after all my efforts for the CM's that you would think of me as utterly stupid for suggesting something that could in the end solve the original loot problems. You are only interested in the PvP enviorment of SWG where most of the population is intrested in the PvE aspect.
I did not threaten to quit, i suggested I could make things easier for you and quit. I did however suggest you start a post holding a voteto have me step down.And I did say if the majority of the CM's on this board wish me to step down because of this, I will. But instead you tried your best to twist my words to your benifit and try to demean my character.
and the view you have for Zarlor I have now for you, your posts have no meaning to me
Hey Kavedawg -- Look at the board, it's obvious to me that you think that most of the players out here posts' have no meaning to you. Otherwise you would realize that you do not represent the board and that you are not representing the combat medics in this regard. The sooner you follow through with your threat the sooner the CM class will be better off.
I don't speak for everyone, I wouldn't want that job.
But wake up it's yours, why don't you start reading, I have. The majority of the threads on the +1 stop ticking say they hate it and describe why. Get to work Correspondent, you got a mess to fix.
cool your jets there bud
There is no need for bashing Kave like this. Its not like he is the programmer and is personally responsible for making these decisions. He has said that he has passed on comments from both sides to the correspondant forum.
Count from a hundred backwards by sevens Bochy and give yourself some time to coool down. Your personal attacks are actually hurting your argument.
It is also my personal opinion that trying to turn the regualar posters in this forum agains our previous 2 correspondents will get you nowhere, fast.
I will confirm that the arguments have been passed on to the correspondent forum.
I would also add that just because an issue shows vocal support on a forum does not necessarily mean that the more vocal statements are the position of the majority. In the many polls I have done on the I have often seen the opposite to be true. In fact a very recent thread about some some of /medicalsurvey for Docs suggested that a simply majority of the posters in that thread were clearly against the idea of any of the Medical professions getting any form of /survey abilities. Yet the Issues vote that same week (and the one from the previous month) very cleary showed that a greater than 2/3rds majority were actually FOR some form of /survey ability, clearly the opposite of the statemnts being made in that thread. I think that is why Kave is asking that you consider placing his removal to a vote that he has stated he would be willing to abide by.
In other words we have a pretty vocal group of folks admantly against the no-incap status for poisons. Does that actually show the majority position of the CMs? Not necessarily. It shows the majority position of those willing to discuss the matter in those threads. Without something more formalized all that Kavedawg can really do on the matter is present the issues and arguments being raised on both sides of the issue, which as I stated he has, in fact, done. (Unless you wish to belive I am lying to you.)
The funny thing about all of this is that you seem to be adamantly against this change and we are adamantly fairly neutral on it. So you seem to take a position suggesting we are absolutely without question in complete favor of the change and that doing so is paramount to being traitorous. That's simply not the case. I think that any positives, from what little I have seen so far, seem to be outweighting the negatives. Jacore makes more than a few excellent points on this. If I find some time tomorrow I will see if I can sit down an bullet-point what seem to be the positives and negatives of the situation and try to work it from there.
But please, really, I have no problems trying to hear your arguments if you would just try to calm down some and present them. Maybe sleep on it tonight and offer a reasoned view in the morning taking into consideration some of the questions some of the others here have raised. Would that be acceptable?
You better believe I am ticked, Kavedawg is supporting a GIANT NERF to the CM proffession.
It's bad enough that all the commandos and BH bash our skills (after all, we are the only ones that can gohead to head with them)and try to get them nerfed. Now we have our temporary correspondent suggetsting these nerfs and the new permanant corrrespondent has fallen in step and is supporting the nerfs too.
I am not attacking him personally, I am sure is just a geeky asthe rest of usStar Wars or MMPOG fans.
What I am attacking is how well he is doing his job, when he passes on that we want this nerf. Like I said he has alot of reading to do and needs to ship out the corrected version. Like I heard before from someone, "If you let it get to the test center, it's all over but the kicking and screaming".
Well folks, we better kick and scream to all get out, or a giant nerf is about to slap us on the face. Instead of addressing the issue, our correspondent gets his feelings hurt, decides to pout and sulk, saying I'll leave if you get a vote. Well sorry sucker, not enough time to pout and try to make yourself feel good, lets just start by trying to stop this freight trainZarlor and Kavedawghelped power up. Save the feel goods and 'atta boys for when the problem is fixed, we don't have time for that now.
Honestly, I could care less about what you think about my arguement, if you want to lay back and let the nerf the CM roll, then do so. If not lets try to get some posts on how to fix it. If you like the idea of the nerf, then go for it - support it. But if you are a COMBAT (PvP) Medic then don't just sit back and watch your poison attacks get nerfed.
Here are a couple of alternativesuggestions:
For the "grief incapps" (the repeated over and over for 40 minutes because the timer is messed up for the 3 incaps your dead rule to apply). Change the timer for the person to let the poison start ticking after the incapto fast enough that the 3 incap rule will apply. Or change the 3 incap rule to last longer to accomodate the time it takes for ppl to drop.
As for the loot/kill rights. Make the poison count as dmg and then whoever has to most dmg gets to loot (like normal, but just counting the poison dmg).
At least these suggestions don't cause a big dang nerf. Lets get practical, they are about to throw out the baby w/the bath water and guess who is the baby? Yup -- the PvP Combat Medic.
Thanks -
Zarlor wrote:
II think that any positives, from what little I have seen so far, seem to be outweighting the negatives. Jacore makes more than a few excellent points on this.
What's not acceptable is for you to make a value judgement on behalf of the board as to what sound better to you than others. You position is to correspond, not interpret or filter out something that is contrary to what you think. That is what sounds like is happening in that statement alone. YOU have decided that position A, while having a broader base of support on the boards, is outweighed by position B because you personally prefer position Bs train of thought. If the devs wanted your opinions on the subject, they would take your application, shut down the boards and call you up on the phone and say Mr. Zarlor, how can we change the game to fit your needs today. Well that is not the case, please try not to forget it.
AllGalaxies wrote:
What's not acceptable is for you to make a value judgement on behalf of the board as to what sound better to you than others. You position is to correspond, not interpret or filter out something that is contrary to what you think. That is what sounds like is happening in that statement alone. YOU have decided that position A, while having a broader base of support on the boards, is outweighed by position B because you personally prefer position Bs train of thought. If the devs wanted your opinions on the subject, they would take your application, shut down the boards and call you up on the phone and say Mr. Zarlor, how can we change the game to fit your needs today. Well that is not the case, please try not to forget it.
Ah, I see what the problem is. You are making an incorrect assumption here. As a correspondent I DO pass along all of the viewpoints. I regularly ask the Docs to take me to task for the wording of any issue which would appear to show a personal bias and may not reflect all the viewpoints expressed on the issue, although I will denote where I have been able to determine it, what the majority viewpoint appears to be, whether I agree with that viewpoint or not.
BUt when I post here on the forums, I post as ME. Just like you *I* also have a right to an opinion and I ahve absolutely no qualms about making my opinion known. The difference is that while I state my opinons here I do NOT let it affect my attempts to remain unbiased in present all viewpoints to the Devs on the corre board.
So it would seem to me that you are mistaking our opinions as expressed here with what we post there. To some extent that is understandable since there are times when we are not allowed to be public with the information on that forum, no matter how much we may in general dislike that particular policy.
All I can tell you is that I will confirm that while Kavedawg may present a personal opinion here on this forum, he IS in fact presenting the arguments from all sides on this issue, despite your beliefs to the contrary.