Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM Correspondent- Kavedawg supported and still supports the stop at +1 stat PvP NERF on poison
Zarlor,
I would like to see what has been posted by you and Kavedawg regarding this specific issue to the Correspondent board.
Thanks -
Do a search on this forum, about 3 weeks back there was a thread dealing with the incap problem. I forget the title, though. At any rate, pretty much that thread got posted to the corre forum.
As for specifically reposting our statments, I just can;t do it. I sometimes can, but normally I can't. It's the policy. To do otherwise would be to break my word to the Devs and to break the confidence with which I have been entrusted by having volunteered for this job. Duty and Honor are not things I have ever taken lightly by the remotest of means and I will not break that trust by resposting from that forum to here. If that were not an issue, I most certainly would repost it here. Otherwise you are stuck with my word on the matter.
Believe me, you have already stated you claim to hold honor in high regard, and my regard for honor is beyond measure. I do not knowngly present any falsehoods in stating we have done our best to remain unbiased on the matter and present all sides. I also have no reason to lie to you at any rate. Wheter this change goes through or not is no skin off my back. I'm fairly ambivalent towards it with only a slight leaning towards favoring it. But it it didn't go through, that's fine with me. If it does go through, that's OK, too. I'm definitely not adamantly for it. I'm just amibivalent.
Kavedawg wrote:
what is not acceptable for you Galaxies is to make assumptions about where I stand and what I push for when the CM community is involved. There are a ton of posts that you do not have access to and that I can not quote. This was one of a few ideas that were presented to the dev and he picked this way, I did not push for it. But now it is here and after working with it on TC it is not that bad and yes, I support some of the issues it resolved (so sorry). I still need to do some serious PvP tests with it with people on foot as well as on mounts but the mounts are still real buggy. I hope I can get some help from the devs and the rest of the TC community, if not the balance testing will probably be done on live and would still have the possibility of getting yanked.
I call it like I see it, you are clearly being one sided in this issue. I could care less about PvP test w/people on foot. In every post I have read so far you have pushed the issue of nerfing the CM. Lets see something to the contrary. I myself have offered a couple of alternatives to this Nerf, how about you find somemore that others have offered(and I have read). Post em on this mssg and show us that you do something besides spew your personal opinion. Rember the issue at hand is the POISON NERF TO DMG TO ONLY +1, not your tests on the creature mounts and the pat on the back you feal you deserve.
How is this for a deal, if you can come with some info relevant to this topic against the Nerf and post it here like a good correspondant would to show her/his objectiveness, I will give you a big That's a good boy and maybe even a pat on the back =P Otherwise you are just proving to me that you are not objective and have no interest in cleaning up this mess you helped make.
I tried to say it in a nice way once, I will try to say it again. I think you are being very disrespectful towards Kave. If you don't cut this crap out, It's going to be hard for people to not assume that you are some little l33t kewl d00d crying because you can't Pwn in PvP when I hope the reason you are making this argument is because you think it is for the overall good of combat medics as a class.
Guess what? It's on test center already. Debating the quality or quantity of honor or the amount concern people have for the CM class or PvP will not take it off of test center. What may take it off of test center is evidence that the situation was carefully debated, pros and cons were discussed as the change was properly evaluated, and constructive arguments for or against are provided.
Start a character on TC instead of thinking new was to disrespect people on this forum if you feel the urge to do something.
a couple Ideas that I passed on to the devs, without pulling it directly off the board
Jacore wrote:
Kave,
snip
#2 (no exp) should be solved, but I can understand why they haven't provided exp commensurate with damage. One cheap way for them to fix the loot issue would for poison/disease to do a token 1hp physical damage (be itsingle or aoe). This would also fix the issue with CMs being able to poison a AT-ST without it going aggro on the CM. Agree that it is Top 5.
snip
Jacore, MCM, Tempest
HoTron-rex wrote:
you people are either nuts or have never tried to do any pvp really... sorry if that sounds insulting but get with the program guys. we CANNOT solo in pvp and make faction. simple fact. if you're a CM you need freaking support out there cause if you dont have it, some BH or Commando or Pistoleer or CH will beat you down before you can blink at the master level. then you get to watch as he DBs you before your poison takes him/her. its a loosing battle all the time. sure, i can mind poison 10 people and piss them off, but in the end I get sent to the clone facility loosing faction, and they gain it every time.
when we're backed up with people in front of us, we are KILLERS, no doubt, but then again isnt a commando? or perhaps a rifleman using strafeshot2? in case you guys missed it, a rifleman using strafeshot2 can bust down a group of 3 or 4 people with one or 2 hits from a T21. support that rifleman and voila, many dead people.
comparing classes like some of you do just doesnt work out too well. every class has its strengths and weaknesses (except the poor chefs, DEs, and BEs) that need to be taken into account in the game. know your opponents effectivenesses and weaknesses and then stop bitching about how your opponent used his or her strength to target your weakness to kill you...
not relevent to your request, but supports the idea the maybe CM shouldn't be able to solo PvP
Mazoa wrote:
i have to say the report and issues you wrote are exactly most of the concerns i have right now progressing on my way to Master CM.
So right now i can just make an offer on how one might change things especially the way Poison an diseases could work also those ideas would need some decent testing.
Why not have some Wound chance on poisons i apply since as a CM that is to be said my "weapon".
When i first read of Diseases i thought of some form of debuffs to hinder certain effects. So I could imagine that an applied disease can debuff a players stats and once debuffed to a zero value one could include effects like dizzy stun knockdown and so on.
The "biological" Weapon thing doesn't suit me well as a CM for me such things are related to a bio engineer or some sort of crafter.
Last thing sorry for the bad english but you have to deal with that since i'm german
AllGalaxies wrote:
I call it like I see it, you are clearly being one sided in this issue. I could care less about PvP test w/people on foot. In every post I have read so far you have pushed the issue of nerfing the CM. Lets see something to the contrary. I myself have offered a couple of alternatives to this Nerf, how about you find somemore that others have offered(and I have read). Post em on this mssg and show us that you do something besides spew your personal opinion. Rember the issue at hand is the POISON NERF TO DMG TO ONLY +1, not your tests on the creature mounts and the pat on the back you feal you deserve.
How is this for a deal, if you can come with some info relevant to this topic against the Nerf and post it here like a good correspondant would to show her/his objectiveness, I will give you a big That's a good boy and maybe even a pat on the back =P Otherwise you are just proving to me that you are not objective and have no interest in cleaning up this mess you helped make.
and, if I were to just totaly ignore the change when it was put on test and cry to the dev to kill it without trying it out, how objective is that? If we can apply poison from a mount, how will that effect the CM raid buster? Should CM's be allowed to do a drive by? If we toss a AoE while someone is mounted, will both the mount and rider get hit? If a CM is trying to finish off a poisoned rider will his shots land on the rider or mount? Can we heal while we are on a mount? Can we kill a mount while a rider is on it?
I think I am trying to be objective , I am trying to see how everything is effected by this change and the other changes to the game. In the mean time I have forwarded your complaints to the dev in a proper tone soPlease chill out
Galaxy,
Neither Kave nor Zarlor are pushing for this shift. Because they may choose not to fight against it doens't mean they're pushing for it. They are entitled to their opinions as much as you are yours, even if you continue to represent your opinions as demonstrable conclusions, which they are not.
If you want to be angry at someone, how about you get angry with me. Not only was this my original suggestion in a slightly differnt form, but if there's a CM pushing nerf on this forum, it's me.
And if you want to argue with me, let's have at it. I'm open-minded on this debate but you haven't posted a single thread tonight that appears to be objective in my opinion.And that's just my opinion.
You want to come up with ideas? Great. A dozen rant posts late is better than none. So let's do it. Let's have ideas and talk back and forth, but if you want to campaign against this, then start addressing my points, because i'm for it. Start addressing my points because I'm putting up demonstrable results and stats as to why we are overpowered in some areas, not merely pushing anedoctal instances in which we might now own someone in PvP post-fix where we can now.
I'm the CM who's posting on this forum and others that in some areas we're overpowered. They're not pushing...as they shoudln't be in their positions. I am pushing these ideas internally not so much to see us nerfed indiscriminantlybut rather to end the rather mindless thought that what we should be about is more power, more domination, and patheticaly incorrect counterarguments like get a doc (in aoe sense). I am pushing for targeted changes rather than foolish across the board x% damage reductions.
If you are this dead set against it, then debate points with me. I'm a rather frequent poster on this board, and if by chance you can convince me, I'll stand shoulder to shulder with you on these boards. But you had better be willing to be open as well.
Jacore MD/MCM, Tempest
AllGalaxies wrote:
I know, I wouldn't believe it myself but I read it. Kavedawg helped by Zarlor actually proposed this nerf by their own admission.
His response to my questioning if he now understood how big of a nerf and how utterly stupid and harmful this change is to CMs was this:
Kavedawg wrote:
So you won't be able to do a kamakzi attack against someone in PvP anymore, well...bring friends. This is the only situation I have come across so far that will change. and if I am sooooo stupid, please feel free to enlighten me with your vastamount of knowledge and wisdom otherwise < I will let you fill in the blank with your superior intelect>
...
easy fix...i will quit
and someone else can take it
1) his grasp of poison is that it isa "kamakzi" attack
2) because I disagree and call him on a prior decision he immediatly threatens to quit
First, poisoning someone and expecting the poison to actually incap them is not a wild, liberal idea. You get poisoned it slowly ticks away and you incapp if it is not healedin time. The real problem was that they spread the incap timing to far apart and it no longer 3 incaps=death, so people complained about that and with justification. This is an example of fixing some other issues of what was termed "griefing" by nerfing the class ability. After all, when I get bled I can get incapped over and over by it if I am not a character with enough medical ability to have it healed. Why unjustly put this on combat medics, well it looks like because our temporary correspondent and our now permanent corespondent layed the groundwork.
But, for you clarification I will give you an example of how poison works and should work w/o being "Kamakazi":
I was going to duel a master BH to see how it went. Duel started and luckily on first try I poisoned his mind. He spammed eyeshot and I was able to weave about and most missed. He coonected w/a couple good eysehots and I was incapped about 30 meters from him (I didn't kite him just moved to throw off his aim). While he was on his way to come DB me he fell to the mind poison. I got up first, ran up to him, yelled Bang Bang and ended the duel. Now I won because I spent alot of points in CM and the poison worked. With the proposed nerf he would have not been incapped and I would have been DBed. That is an example that doesn't include the "Kamakazi" tactic that Kavedawg could see as teh only use of poison.
There is no question that this is a nerf. We are combat medics after all, not doctors. We should have the ability to incap with our special abilities in our profession. I didn't spend all those points to master something then have my only effective combat ability yanked. And the arguement about Ranged Weapon Support --- there is no certification of any weapons in this skill. If the intent was for a CM to have to shoot things to death, then there would have been a requirement for us to actually train in a weapon skill.
Threatening to quit as correspondent? That is utterly childish, there are going to be plenty of ppl that disagree with you and "gasp" actually post it. Get used to it, grow some thick skin or whatever it takes.
I think it is fair that this be recognized and posted on it's own individual thread. I would hope that CaveDawg can actually see what a nerf this is on us, and withdraw his support for it.
Flame all you want, but I am entitled to my say on this board just as the rest of you are, I don't appreciate suggestions from some contributers of this board, that I should be banned or not allowed to post because I don't agree or haven't "posted enought" to have a voice. That sounds like a really rotten policy to me.
Just like you are allowed to say what you want, I can or anyone else here can to. Its not like kava and Zarlor were posting on the correspondent board behind our backs with their secret intentions.
Also might I ask, did you go Combat Medic because you thought you should be taking on Bounty Hunters? I know I didnt. I personallyhave no opinion either wayabout this change. It doesnt affect me much except on 1 vs 1 pvp which I find to be usually fairly boring becuase I win 95% of the time against ANY class in the game(why you think we should be able to is beyond me.) We are a support class no matter what anyone says. We should not be the kings of pvp, period. We work well in group situations currently, and will do just as well in the future.
Stopping poisons @ +1 in PvE will kill CMinstantly, and i am very very against it ! Mobs have 30k+ HAM in comparison with less than 1k players have and kill in two-three blows.
As for PvP, 75% reduction is a must, and stopping only mind poison at +1 also needed, it is great idea. However, for healable pools it should do full damage. With 75% reduction it will strongly balance PvP. Cause now its a joke - i buff myself, wear decent compositeand then i do terminator job, noone can stop me and my 500+ tick poisons. Grauls are too weak to incap me, and for strong buffedBH's i have my sniper poisons - 82 metersrange ~270 tick.
Wild-Man, either I haven't been to your shop before (and I've scoured eclipse for CM shops for some time) or you don't ever put that uber-poison up for sale! 
I've said before that I absolutely do not think poison should ever have a range greater than 45 at most, but umm, since it does you want to put some of that up on your vendor? lol
Jacore wrote:
Galaxy,
Neither Kave nor Zarlor are pushing for this shift. Because they may choose not to fight against it doens't mean they're pushing for it. They are entitled to their opinions as much as you are yours, even if you continue to represent your opinions as demonstrable conclusions, which they are not.
Jacore MD/MCM, Tempest
Sorry buddy, but go back 3 weeks and look, Zarlor was actively engaged in pushing this nerf. He asked me to go back and look and I did, his post consisted of exclusively pushing this nerf.
As for being angry with you, of course I am. Anyone that screams to have the sole PvP attack ability of my attack class nerfed will recieve my anger. How can you demand to have our poisons nerfed when there are 1/2 dozen similar attacks in other professions that do the same thing? Health Bleed for pistoleer, Action Bleed for Carbineer, Mind Bleed for rifle, Torso Shot for BH, COmmandos have flames, and most of those classes have 2 or more STACKABLE varieties. These bleed shots do the exact same thing our poison does, yet you want to nerf our poison and make it stop at 1 HAM.
The problems here I have already addressed and offered 2 solutions that would not have caused a nerf, but I will do it again in case you missed it.
#1 The "grief" incapping --- This started because the devs put a 5 minute grace period after the original incap. Lower or remove that grace period and the 3 incaps and your dead will solve this problem instantly.
#2 The no loot priveledge --- Treat poison dmg as dmg done by the person poisoning (after all it is our attack). Tally up who has done the most dmg (like it is already done) and give that person the rights to loot.
Common, these are 2 simple solutions that don't involve a nerf to anyone. There are plenty of alternative views out there. It's obvious that the Vast Majority of the CMs hate this nerf. A few CMs, such as your selves support it, and a ton of other classes would love to see us nerfed. My point is this is the Combat Medic boards. Just because a few CMs, our temp correspondent and our new correspondent personally agree with a nerf, they pushed it and got it implemented.
Surely you can acnowledge by reading the board that the VAST majority of the CMs do not support this. Oh yea and just because you have hundreds of posts on this board means nothing, I pay my monthly subscription just like you and I never saw the place taht said if you don't have X amount of posts you have no voice. Show me where it says that, or better yet leave the elitist attitude at home.
I want to see some response to this giant issue that you, Zarlor and Kavedawg have gotten going and a reasonable attempt by my (and the rest of the majority that hate this change) correspondent has started. I would like to see them fighting for the CM instead of the agenda that they think is better logic (after all we are all idiots in yoru mind if we don't agree with you right?)
Don't make a simple band-aid(the poison change)to a problem that the devs caused be the biggest Attack Nerf to any class ever created. How will that make you feel 2 months from now when you remember back in the day when a combat medic could actually incap someone with her/his advanced skills?
WildWildMaN wrote:
...As for PvP, 75% reduction is a must, and stopping only mind poison at +1 also needed, it is great idea. However, for healable pools it should do full damage...
Ok are we going to stop Rifleman mind bleeds to 1 M too? Are we also going to further reduce all dmg from all bleeds by 75%? We will need to reduce the heals by 75% too while we are at it to keep this 75% thing going.
Then how about we just take dmg out period and we could all hit each other with nerf bats and sing the Barney theme song?
It's a shame that there are a few CMs out there that are crying nerf to their own profession. At least the commandos and bh stick together, we can't even agree to try and help our own profession.