Combat Medic Archive

It's been noted many times on this forum and on the main forums that the CM has some unbalancing problems with dot attacks currently. Specifically:

1. They do not require Line of Site.
2. They do not cause a TEF.

Now,of course, all of us CMs think this is incredibly fun. (Serves them right for our messed up damage and one shot kills on us by everyone else). However, we must also admit that these were not likely intended and are easily unbalancing. As Elenora pointed out, the "NERF THE CM" posts will almost assuredly be pouring in as soon as the patch tomorrow when our damage will go up.

In my opinion, we need to start addressing this issue internally ourselves. We should be proactive in working with the developers to tell them someideas on how we could solve these problems without totally wiping out our combat dot ability. Fark (filthy_mcnasty) can take our ideas as the coorepondent to try and influence what they might do.

These are my suggestions on the probem:

1. Make us unable to apply dots or heals into or out of a building, but do not require full LOS. It is obviously unfauir for us to be able to kill someone when they cannot even atatck us in return at all. So sitting in a building while taking out your opponent obviously has to be removed. However, the CM animation clearly shows that our attacks and heals are indirect. Like a grenade, they are lobbed high in the sky to come down on their target. This should not require LOS. In fact, in battle this would give the CM at least a moment to try and stay alive. Let the CM stay back and try to find as much cover as possible. As long as it is a place accessible to everyone, someone WILL notice your healing and come track you down. Otherwise, we will have to be standing out in the open, where everyone knows we will get gunned down first since we are teh juiciest target for the enemy.

2. Make dot attacks cause a TEF the first time they actually work. Currently the dots seem to be resisted too often, to make a resist cause the TEF. All we would do is get several useless attacks while our opponent is blasting away at us. If resists were only as common as a blaster miss, then I would agree the first attempt should cause a TEF.

Now, please do not just blast my ideas if you do not agree with something. If you don't think mine are right, then offer your own constructive ideas. I know the situation is "fun" for us right now, but read the writing on the wall--it is pissing off too many people to stay this way.

Let's be proactive and see if we can help guide the developers' discussion rather than just waiting for the big nerf bat in the sky to decend and wipe us out.

Cedron
Master Combat Medic
Starsider

IMO, to avoid any flare back, poison and disease should be treated just like pistol LOS... although lobbed, its lame otherwise. Play ring around the building while you can tear up everyone

Pretty clean cut

I do believe we need to keep the not-so-complete los with our heals, though. For the exact same reasons.

*cough expanding cough*

Ranged heals not requiring LOS is not inulnerability for the party, rather adds tactics. If the opposing group must hunt out that healer tossing the grenades, so be it! They also have the option of simply smacking their targets mind.. and any way, they'll go down eventually

The TEF is clearly a bug. If we attack someone a TEF should be acquired, as it stands now we can kill them with poisons and all they can do is stare and bitch. As for the LOS, I think in time they will change the poisons and disease so they are LOS and heals will remain the same as they are now. Just a gut feeling.

The main problem with DoTs and LOS is this... conceptually, ifDoTs are chemical weapons (and the title is chemical warfare expert after all)...you should be able to throw them in through windows, over rocks and hills, into trenches, etc. If someone's hiding behind a tree... so what? Throw it next to the tree and they'll breathe it in. That's one of the reasons these weapons are used (and feared)- you don't need a direct hit with them. A nobody lobbing a gas grenade through a window is going to get the target just as well asRoger Clemensbeaning him with it on an openbaseball field.

The TEF thing however sounds like a bug and that ought to be fixed. Bugs are evil.

TEF is a bug and should be fixed.

LOS - I think it's reasonable to have a requirement to have LOS to apply poison, but certanly not for every tick.

I do think being proactive about this is a good plan. We all see what is coming, we've been put up on the tee and the Nerf bat is at the ready.

Theline of sightthings is simple, just add a modifier to hit. Increase the modifier when you do not have LOS. Obviously hitting from within a building should not be allowed.

Give us the same chance to hit as with a weapon and give us the TEF when we attempt a dot attack.

The unique thing about LOS for DoT is: what do you require LOS for ? I think requiring LOS for each tick is too much, however applying it should require LOS check.

I think if anything is due for a nerf it's beasties and pets being able to walk thorugh walls at all. Why screw up the tactics of using COVER just because somebody on the Dev team can't get their AI pathing code right.

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Iraea wrote:
The main problem with DoTs and LOS is this... conceptually, ifDoTs are chemical weapons (and the title is chemical warfare expert after all)...you should be able to throw them in through windows, over rocks and hills, into trenches, etc. If someone's hiding behind a tree... so what? Throw it next to the tree and they'll breathe it in. That's one of the reasons these weapons are used (and feared)- you don't need a direct hit with them. A nobody lobbing a gas grenade through a window is going to get the target just as well asRoger Clemensbeaning him with it on an openbaseball field.

The TEF thing however sounds like a bug and that ought to be fixed. Bugs are evil.

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My thoughts exactly. The whole point of chemical warfare is that it affects an entire area. That's why it isn't supposed to do as much damage as a blaster boltto the head. By the same token, it should be fairly hard to miss that these exploding toxin canisters aren't falling from trees - there's probably a toxicologist around. Good post! Five gold stars for you!

Once AE agents are actually in working order, I think an elegant solution to the LoS issue for Poison/Disease would to be to add a Ground-Targeting system that requires no LoS. Just as chemical agents don't need a direct hit in order to be effective, they also do not home in on targets. I'm pretty sure ground-targeting is out of the question in terms of how much work it would take to just add this feature though.

TEF is a bug. That one should be fixed in a patch soon.

LOS is kind of unique, It's not really a fight-winner, It's mildly exploitable, but not excessively so. I vote that it stays. I mean, if the other side has a doctor, then your damage is completely negated anyway.

Plus, they do have radar, a target reticle that can see through walls. Pets that are going to "Warp" through walls.

The more I think about it, I don't think we're *too* in line for a nerf. I haven't heard any big complaints about us yet. Plus, we did spend a heck of a lot of points to get here (BH argument, I know).

Yes we started this witch hunt on Starsider recently. My guild and it's cm's have been getting major crap because of us hiding behind "walls" and such and lobbing poisons over onto the enemy.

I don't believe LOS in general is needed. We are one of the very few professions who are "magical" sort of in nature. We are throwing these little chemical things at our enemy. Take for instance if i am running through coronet in a pvp group (did this recently w/guild) we go through a small opening (you know the archways in coronet?), anyway ihid in the corner and spam healed and because of what i think "my tactics" we prevailed because i had the sense of mind to get a defensive shield in front of me instead of standing in the wide open. If we require a complete LOS for HEALS and POISONS then we are gonna be the "caster" class of every mmorpg for instance DAOC the casters were the one's everyone attacked first. Any well t rained pvp'er will know who to kill first. Hell we have an ongoing list of "first kills" of the AH people. If you are a CM or a Doctor you are on that list. Those people need to do all they can to stay safe because once they die... it's over. If we have to have full LOS then what's the purpose really? I my as well wear my " Master Combat medic bullseye " over my head.

LOS through buildings definitely should be fixed. It's not really fair, however if someone is standing in the doorway and i toss an aoe poison at him i would hope it would still effect everyone within the radius. It won't really matter too much overall if poison dmg stays the same and gets cut by pvp dmg modifier. -75 ticks of poison (of course mind, who would use anything else?) . I think my best pack i have is like a 212 effectiveness so that's around 424 from my tests - 75% we are down to 100 a tick.... 100 a tick every 15-20 seconds by a master elite 169 point used class? lol NO.

The tef thing is a given, it needs fixed. Once you successfully poison the target you get a tef. I've mind wounded rill's to no mind before by diseasing and spamming peace. That could possibly be another pve exploit down the line if you could do it long enough for a very high level creature.

Kama