Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Gas Masks: A solution to reducing power of Combat medics...and a new item line?

magitek82
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:05 pm
#1


Hi, this is my first time posting on this forum, and i'm pretty new to SWG, but i'm learning alot every day. I'm not sure if this is a good place to post this topic and i just wanted to share my idea somewhere. And i haven't been around the forum much, so please let me know if this idea is already been talked about.


Anyways, i've been reading the forums about a lot complaints about unbalances with combat medics and their area of effect bombs being over powered in pvp...Now, i'm never agreed with nerfing, but rather, what if we offered ways of creating other "solutions" people could use to improve their odds of winning a battle....likea gasmask! A preventive measure soldiers used in World War 1 to protect themselves from "mustard gas" attacks by enemy soldiers,soldiers dropped everything, and whipped out gas masks to survive.



Now, i was wondering.... what aboutimplementing some sort of new item like a "gas mask"that could be made by crafters, like an alternative to protective headgear. It could be used as an alternative headgear, to protect the victim from feeling the effects of a combat medics poison/disease bombs. In "The Empire Strikes Back", Leia and Han wore masks to breath in the atmosphere of the "cave/worm creature" on that asteroid (sorry, i don't know the name of that creature), andit could be modeled in game around those masks. It'd bea neatidea totoss around to be tested in test center, in that implementing gas masks, it wont nerf the power of Combat medics in PvE, and in PvP, if you don't have a gas mask, you're at a loss.


Now, i know that may sound like a complete nerf to the CM profession, but what if it was designed so that you couldn't wear any protective headgear while using it, and you'd be completely vunerable to head shots and any other sort of attack that regular helmets would causereduced damage to mind bar. And the way that makes the gasmasks so limited in its protectiveness isthat it absorbs poison and disease damage only by like 80 or 90 percent, but it's condition rating goes down with each point of damage it absorbs (like how armor conditions fall) and is very limited in its condition (about 500-1000) and with short limitations, with an average half life of 1 battle.....and make it that betterquality masks would laster longer. (somevery cautious people may wear 2 or 3 in their inventory if the battle lasts too long....i dunno...) However, because you have to put this on your head, you can't wear any other helmets, and offers no other protective effects what so ever to energy, kinetics, heat, etc...


So an example of how this could work would be like this:

-Rebel troops attack an imperial base, imperials hide in the base, rebels send bombs to cover the area, and imperials put on gas masks to prevent damage....however, rebels don't charge into the base with the gas cloud having just been planted there, (and a base full of imps still shooting at themand fighting resumes with range weapons (trying to hit the head) and meleer's charging into the area with gas masks on.....(similarly, imperials could use gas bombs to prevent enemies from charging into the base, and rebels could put gas masks on and continue charging in)


So, there you have it.....perhaps the developrs might here about this if people in the forum thinks that this maybe a good idea to implement.


again, i'm sorry if this idea is already being kicked around.....i'm new here.
Morganite
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:33 pm
#2

Not a bad idea, but I think all combat medics (myself included) would agree they should fix the bugs that plague our class, then see where we stand in the ranks of the pecking order of "uber classes". Without 94 meter range, I think only the truly stupid would still be complaining about our "overpoweredness".



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Xytroncore
Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:54 am
#3

I wouldn't care one bit if they put in gas masks to stop us, I'd just pick up riflemen so fast and hit your un-composite-armored head so fast it's notfunny.



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RhenGordon
Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:58 am
#4

I essentially like the idea you are going with. I also think that the wearer should be penalized at least 50% to their ability to hit the opponent in combat while wearing one.


Also I would like to point out that a gas mask is not 100% effective. A gas mask alone will not protext you against many of the chemical agents today so it should not protect you 100% in Star Wars either.


There are a lot of ideas out there though, let's wait and see what changes in the weeks to come.



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Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:06 am
#5






Xytroncore wrote:
I wouldn't care one bit if they put in gas masks to stop us, I'd just pick up riflemen so fast and hit your un-composite-armored head so fast it's notfunny.







This is why I generally don't support Gas Masks. It would force Combat Medics to pick up rifleman as their third mastery. I would rather like Combat Medic to be viable on its own and working in tandem with any combat mastery.


Plus as you say, gasmasks that don't protect against anything else will just cause any head attacking character class to own the day beyond funny.


If gasmasks are to be introduced they should be a integrated part of a new helmet. New and specific look, providing (at best) amedium protection against normal damage and providing either:
1) Up to 40% resistance to poison and disease (not my favourite alternative though)
2) Up to 60% damage reduction per tick. The poison still enters your system but you don't get as high a dose as if you were unprotected.
3) Prolonged tick-time, up to double the usual time.


But as have been stated earlier, let's wait out the combat revamp and then see what needs doing after that.




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BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

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magitek82
Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:14 pm
#6

Hmm....i see some very good points about how people would just switch over to rifleman....but i thought it would be a neat idea just to have gas masks..


I would assume a better solution would be to just implement greater resistances to poison and diseases on helmets that cover peoples faces (seeing how it looks like a gas mask...) But then, there are a whole slew of other problems that need to be addressed before the dev's could actually come in and implement something like gasmasks in game anyways....
Rchuno
Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:48 pm
#7

This idea has been discussed in at leaste 2 other threads already at length. I can't remember what they were but they came out just after the geonosian cave. You can see my comments in those posts.



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b0ba_phat
Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:53 am
#8

What would be cool is if maybe artisans could craft "Breathing Components" .. that maybe take up a socket in your helmet, instead of giving a penalty to hit this component removed one of your helmets Special Protection layers. This way you might have to buy acouple of "Breathing Components" and a couple of helmets so that you can keep that great stun layer .


I like this idea, I also like your opinion that there should be solutions not nerfs.






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Mecha-Azrael
Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:52 pm
#9

This actually would go a ways to making combat in SWG more interesting. It follows the "combined arms" idea.Basically, you can defend well against either Combat Medics, or Riflemen, but not both at the same time.


It's like back in the napoleonic wars, infantry in tight formation was very effective against calvary, but were particularly vulnerable to artillery(cannons). In modern warfare, to defend against a ground attack, you need to concentrate your forces, however, that's the exact opposite of what you do to defend against attacks from the air. Thus, the key to battle is to combine both types of attack.


On the other hand, this would cause asignificant boost to the popularity of the alreadycommon CM/Rifleman template.
JamGod
Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:18 am
#10

its a good idea, but I dont like the way it pushes cms towards taking up rifleman tbh.


Now if you have it as a full protective suit, rather that justa gas mask I think it'd work alot better.. biological agents dont just go in through the mouth, some can affect your skin & eyes, so troops today wear a gasmask & a suit with it that covers their entire body. Have the suit as one item, so you cant wear any form of armour with it , and it would also reduce movement so it might be an idea to have it reduce secondary defenses (how can you dodge/block/counterattck as effectively in a full bio-protective suit?) & maybe even a bit of ranged & melee defense too but to counter that it would have to give 100% resists. By itself, it wouldnt be a good idea, but I think if you upped the power of area poisons slightly (yes I said upped :smileysurprised & made it affect both sides i.e. all overt/tef'd/and people grouped with the cm then I think you can achieve a balance...

What you'll have is a very powerful weapon that will cause both sides to duck and cover.. cms wont be able to take down a large group because people will just equip the suits & shoot the cm down, but it would be something to be used tactically in large-scale battles because you're likely to catch the enemy off guard. People will most likely keep their armour on because the suit will actually make them weaker against normal fire than they are naturally but switch to the suits when poisons are in the air. Poisons would give a massive advantage if used tactically at the right moment, but be 100% useless at the wrong time.


Lets take a fewextremesituations as examples:




Situation 1


Joe pvp VS master cm


For arguments sake, lets say joe pvp is aBH/master pistoleer& the master cm has rifle too.


Here it would be a simple case of Joe putting on his suit when he realises he's fighting (or about to fight) a cm. He would have a reduction in defenses, but hes a BH -what hedoes best is offense, so its not that big a deal. Where without the suit he would have been been taken out by the poisons hes now completely safe, and the odds are infact in his favour.


Situtation 2


group 1 =30 people relatively new to pvp.. mostly mid-way through a template & even a few 92 sp builds,+ 1 or 2 old hands in the mix

group 2 = 6 tough pvper's, one of whom is a cm


Now say the battle is raging, I have seen many a time where group 2 would just flatten group 1, but in this case the few old hands are managing to keep group 1 fairly ship-shape, making sure healers are healing & people arent getting too far from the group etc so group one is just about managing to hold its ground & arent showing too much in the way of weakness.

But group 2 has a cunning plan up its sleave.. suddenly all six of them put on their suits & the cm starts throwing poisons, everyone in group 2 knew this was coming so they switch their attention from firing at the enemy to keeping their group healed while their armour is off, & the cm has managed to get two AOE poisons (one mind, the second action to make it harder to heal the mind) before anyone in group 1 realises. The all-clear is given in group 2 & they put their armour back on & start blazing away at group 1; whereas the first group now are putting on their suits & screaming at the doc for heals... what you end up with is a group who where originally barely holding together, taken apart because they're now concentrating solely on their diseases & trying to prevent more/cure them.

Everything they had managed beforeinkeeping together & working togetherhas gone down the pan because they're now all concentrating on one thing - their mind is going down massively and theres nothing they can do to stop it.



Situtation 3


melee/doc vs rifleman/cm


In this case the doc sees that hes fighting a cm & deliberately chooses not to put on his suit. The cm now thinks "aha!" & puts on his suit & throws a mind poison. The doc then heals his poison & uses the cm/rifleman's naturally low defense against melee, paired with an even lower defense from the cm's suit to his advantage. The doc has the cm floored & out in no time whereas the cm only got one tick on the doc.




I think having a counter for cm is desperately needed, but you can't have it just replace the helmet because then theres not much point in mixing cm with anything other than rifleman.... we already have enough of those...




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Tlk
Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:35 pm
#11

Good idea, may want to expand it so that the protective measures are incorporated into full armor suits (not just a face mask). The combat medics create the layer and the armorsmiths incorporate it. Also, change the delivery system for the disease and poison, a grenade works well for the area effects (leave as is), but to offer an advantage to the combat medics (since the protective layers will weaken their AOE attacks), make the SR combat pistol (or a new one based of teh launcher pistol) a combat medic weapon where you apply power-ups (the single target) to apply a specific poison or disease (the gun must have light armor piercing to allow a bypass to armor adn give the combat medics some good pistol dmg potential). They can have multiple weapons that they can change between if they choose to apply a variety of poisons.

Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:00 am
#12

I DONT WANNT TO HAF TO WARE SPESJAL KLOTHIN TO BE IMUN TO PSON!
NERF CM NOW!


Or something along those lines... I'm suprised we haven't heard that yet...





Carbicide: "The victimless crime!"
BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

"I lead with my intellect, wits, example and the big nasty gun that I use to shoot everyone who doesn't follow my orders"
Rennec Bibo, proud owner of some sort of carbine since november 2003.
Nyracasso
Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:57 am
#13

Rebreathers? Do those work for cm poisons?


I haven't tested.





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