Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM needs restructuring now JUMP ON !!
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Jedi-scout
Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:32 am
#1
There is a major problem with this tree that is forcing alot of people to drop this game all together. It's effect on PVP is number one. The structure of effectiveness is way out of hand. The penalties when dropping a poison in PVP do not outway the damage by a long shot, especially when that damage is area effected. a 1 0 04 CM could own a group of anything in PVP. explain this:
Name one profession that can do 24k dmg, and 24k woundsto any number of targets with 2 hits???
(total damage/wound over2 min elaps @ 1k per 5 sec tic based on current uber poisons / diseases)
Why has this proffession become the final say in everything PVP now?
There needs to be changes done on a balanced CM PVP system. Here are a few idea's:
1. Each chance roll of resist done on a player, should have a lowered % of sticking after each attempt. This % penalty is lowered as you lvl effectiveness, to little or no penalty at mastery.
2. Doctor's should gain a "Vaccine"ability upon mastery. An ability similar to /healmind in cost, which enables a Master doc to remove poison or disease states. Cure poison/disease is effective butusually requires many doses to remove the state, even at master doc.
3. Raise Mind and blue stat buff rates by 50% minimum, and increase the duration of them to be more balanced with med buffs.
4. There should be food/drink options with either lowered effectiveness % over x time, or immunity options for both, with a restriction of only being able to be immune to one or the other, not both at the same time.
5. Rather than keep the damage at a constant rate, have it lowered a % with each tick. Example:100% first tick, 80% of 1st ticks damage next tick, 60% of 80%'s damage next tick...etc
Anyor allof these would help balance PVP without making CM useless.Now that defense stacking will be eliminated, this can only further balance the field. Flame on or add on!
Pahdbacca
Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:55 am
#2
Jedi-scout wrote:
There is a major problem with this tree that is forcing alot of people to drop this game all together. It's effect on PVP is number one. The structure of effectiveness is way out of hand. The penalties when dropping a poison in PVP do not outway the damage by a long shot, especially when that damage is area effected. a 1 0 04 CM could own a group of anything in PVP. explain this:
1. A 1 0 0 4 CM would not be able to use area poison Cs.
2. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never (well, I suppose you could if a master made an area B poison with a venonm drop...if a master uses one of these loot drops in an area B poison, they are crazy) be able to use an area poison that could cause over 200 dmg per tic
3. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never be able to throw a poison 64m using a post patch pack. If they use a pre pack patch, I estimate the damage would be under 100 per tic
4. A 1 0 0 4 CM would throw so slowly and alreayd be in ranged weapon range that if you didn't kill them before they stack, you deserve to loose.
here is a link as to what a 1 0 0 4 CM can do with poisons
Name one profession that can do 24k dmg, and 24k woundsto any number of targets with 2 hits???
(total damage/wound over2 min elaps @ 1k per 5 sec tic based on current uber poisons / diseases)
Poisons tick every 10 seconds...diseases tick every 40 seconds...you need to redo your math
Why has this proffession become the final say in everything PVP now?
There needs to be changes done on a balanced CM PVP system. Here are a few idea's:
1. Each chance roll of resist done on a player, should have a lowered % of sticking after each attempt. This % penalty is lowered as you lvl effectiveness, to little or no penalty at mastery.
2. Doctor's should gain a "Vaccine"ability upon mastery. An ability similar to /healmind in cost, which enables a Master doc to remove poison or disease states. Cure poison/disease is effective butusually requires many doses to remove the state, even at master doc.
3. Raise Mind and blue stat buff rates by 50% minimum, and increase the duration of them to be more balanced with med buffs.
4. There should be food/drink options with either lowered effectiveness % over x time, or immunity options for both, with a restriction of only being able to be immune to one or the other, not both at the same time.
5. Rather than keep the damage at a constant rate, have it lowered a % with each tick. Example:100% first tick, 80% of 1st ticks damage next tick, 60% of 80%'s damage next tick...etc
Anyor allof these would help balance PVP without making CM useless.Now that defense stacking will be eliminated, this can only further balance the field. Flame on or add on!
You are very misinformed as to what CMs are and are not capable of. Please do not try to dictate changes CMs should have while being so ingnorant of the profession. This was a waste of by pre caffine morning.
Jizukk
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:18 am
#3
That is simply nonsense!
First I have to apologize for my english. I'm from abroad and I hope you can understand me.
The Nerf Cries on Combat Medic are baseless. There are such many reasons that i can hardly list them.
Think of the financial Factor. How can a CM make Money?
Have you ever seen a really rich Master CM?! Probably not. In fact he can only do missions, but now mind the PvE factor!
In PvE we're simply useless unless we're in a big group! The damage we make to monsters is even not value to be mentioned. Spider Venom should help us, yeah ... but even now we need still a big group, but thats not the thing i want to decry ...
So far ... Combat Medics have no chance of making good money.
Now take ressources into considering. Essentially a Combat Medic needs a artisan to find his ressources and this ressources spawn very infrequently, so that we need several weeks or even monthstill we can craft our poisons/diseases/Area Stims.
Insofar Combat Medics have a hard life.
And now the most controversial Point PvP. At first i want you to remind, that poisons tick only every ten seconds and diseases every 40 seconds, how Pahdbacca have already said.
Combat 1 on 1:
In 1 on 1 Combat Cms have no chance to survive. They can throw a poison or disease, but the opponent will always have enough pool points to incap you.
Combat on against all:
Again a Combat Medic can throw a area disease or a area poison ...... but he will be killed first of all and his opponents have every time they need to cure their poisons and diseases.
And now we come to the only part, where a Combat Medic is really effective PvP in a group versus a big group and because it is the exclusive part it doesn't need a reduction at all!
I know, that a Cm can has great power over the battlefield but that is simply deserved, but mind, that Cms can die very fast too. Truly an authentic Combat Medic cant wear a armor, as the enumbrance on focus would make them useless.
Secondly a Combat Medic is useless after a few mind heals.
Conclusion: A MASTER Cm is a absolutely valuable player in great PvP wars, but needs the most huge protection.
A Cm is the Joker in PvP and thats almost his single advantage.
You will recognise, that the Combat Medic Profession needs some closer Examinations, before you judge about it.
It was often alluded that Cm needs the most Skill Points with bounty hunter and Commando, but in fact the Combat Medic Profession is the most constricting Professions.
First you will not believe me, but here is the explanation.
Alongside Master Commando you can master Tka, Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman, Smuggler, Pistoleer, Rifleman and Carbineer. That are 8 Professions and mastering Tka you even some skill points to learn some other skills!
Ok Bounty Hunter is an Exeption, but this Profession needs no Crafting (exept Survival XP) and so on not the ressources, but they can still make good money and harvest creatures.
Alongside Master Combat Medic you can only master Doctor, Pistoleer, Rifleman and Carbineer, but where do you want to get the Ressources? Meat you can only harvest? That are only 4 Professions, so half of the professions the commando can master...
(I didn't implicate the basic professions like scout in my thoughts, but the image is the same!)
And now you want to tell me, that Combat Medic needs a Reduction? Do you ever were a Master Combat Medic? Probably not...
Many will blame me, but i think Combat Medic needs even some little burst. I think they should have kind of a defense on their mind pool ... especially a bit defense against focus wounds! ...
Think about it!
First I have to apologize for my english. I'm from abroad and I hope you can understand me.
The Nerf Cries on Combat Medic are baseless. There are such many reasons that i can hardly list them.
Think of the financial Factor. How can a CM make Money?
Have you ever seen a really rich Master CM?! Probably not. In fact he can only do missions, but now mind the PvE factor!
In PvE we're simply useless unless we're in a big group! The damage we make to monsters is even not value to be mentioned. Spider Venom should help us, yeah ... but even now we need still a big group, but thats not the thing i want to decry ...
So far ... Combat Medics have no chance of making good money.
Now take ressources into considering. Essentially a Combat Medic needs a artisan to find his ressources and this ressources spawn very infrequently, so that we need several weeks or even monthstill we can craft our poisons/diseases/Area Stims.
Insofar Combat Medics have a hard life.
And now the most controversial Point PvP. At first i want you to remind, that poisons tick only every ten seconds and diseases every 40 seconds, how Pahdbacca have already said.
Combat 1 on 1:
In 1 on 1 Combat Cms have no chance to survive. They can throw a poison or disease, but the opponent will always have enough pool points to incap you.
Combat on against all:
Again a Combat Medic can throw a area disease or a area poison ...... but he will be killed first of all and his opponents have every time they need to cure their poisons and diseases.
And now we come to the only part, where a Combat Medic is really effective PvP in a group versus a big group and because it is the exclusive part it doesn't need a reduction at all!
I know, that a Cm can has great power over the battlefield but that is simply deserved, but mind, that Cms can die very fast too. Truly an authentic Combat Medic cant wear a armor, as the enumbrance on focus would make them useless.
Secondly a Combat Medic is useless after a few mind heals.
Conclusion: A MASTER Cm is a absolutely valuable player in great PvP wars, but needs the most huge protection.
A Cm is the Joker in PvP and thats almost his single advantage.
You will recognise, that the Combat Medic Profession needs some closer Examinations, before you judge about it.
It was often alluded that Cm needs the most Skill Points with bounty hunter and Commando, but in fact the Combat Medic Profession is the most constricting Professions.
First you will not believe me, but here is the explanation.
Alongside Master Commando you can master Tka, Fencer, Swordsman, Pikeman, Smuggler, Pistoleer, Rifleman and Carbineer. That are 8 Professions and mastering Tka you even some skill points to learn some other skills!
Ok Bounty Hunter is an Exeption, but this Profession needs no Crafting (exept Survival XP) and so on not the ressources, but they can still make good money and harvest creatures.
Alongside Master Combat Medic you can only master Doctor, Pistoleer, Rifleman and Carbineer, but where do you want to get the Ressources? Meat you can only harvest? That are only 4 Professions, so half of the professions the commando can master...
(I didn't implicate the basic professions like scout in my thoughts, but the image is the same!)
And now you want to tell me, that Combat Medic needs a Reduction? Do you ever were a Master Combat Medic? Probably not...
Many will blame me, but i think Combat Medic needs even some little burst. I think they should have kind of a defense on their mind pool ... especially a bit defense against focus wounds! ...
Think about it!
Rchuno
Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:53 am
#6
Your math is off but that has already been addressed.
Also the CM is "Rooted" every time they throw for 4 seconds. So catch the sucker. if there are 30 of you (which seems to be some sort of magic number) and you all get hit you should all imediatly start running after the CM who is standing still. You then get hit again and are in range with 30 of you firing at the same time he is dead. Or you can sit there and type "wt f I'm poisoned are you poisoned? I hate CMs NERF"
Fosterkenobi
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:23 pm
#7
Did you only have thoughts about nerfing us and giving everyone something extra against us?
No offence but if you want people not to flame you or reply with some feedback, Why not put on here what your going to give us instead like a new weapon for pve or something that actually does more damge than 70dps per second.
We are absolutely appauling in pve and couldnt out damge a cdef pistol if we tried.
Your gooner get your nerf wish anyway soon as eveyone is (insert your proffesion here/combat med) after the new patch its the new uber template.
Jedi-scout
Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:29 am
#8
Pahdbacca wrote:
Jedi-scout wrote:
There is a major problem with this tree that is forcing alot of people to drop this game all together. It's effect on PVP is number one. The structure of effectiveness is way out of hand. The penalties when dropping a poison in PVP do not outway the damage by a long shot, especially when that damage is area effected. a 1 0 04 CM could own a group of anything in PVP. explain this:
1. A 1 0 0 4 CM would not be able to use area poison Cs.
2. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never (well, I suppose you could if a master made an area B poison with a venonm drop...if a master uses one of these loot drops in an area B poison, they are crazy) be able to use an area poison that could cause over 200 dmg per tic
3. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never be able to throw a poison 64m using a post patch pack. If they use a pre pack patch, I estimate the damage would be under 100 per tic
4. A 1 0 0 4 CM would throw so slowly and alreayd be in ranged weapon range that if you didn't kill them before they stack, you deserve to loose.
1. Show me where I state that
2. SHow me where I state that
3. Maybe you should read the whole paragraph yet again
4. Are you having fun taking about 1 0 0 4 Cm's yet ?
here is a link as to what a 1 0 0 4 CM can do with poisons
Imade, what i figured would be an obvious sarcastic statement. Or did you need a smiley face icon to catch on?
Name one profession that can do 24k dmg, and 24k woundsto any number of targets with 2 hits???
(total damage/wound over2 min elaps @ 1k per 5 sec tic based on current uber poisons / diseases)
Poisons tick every 10 seconds...diseases tick every 40 seconds...you need to redo your math
My math is fine, the ticswereoff.
Why has this proffession become the final say in everything PVP now?
There needs to be changes done on a balanced CM PVP system. Here are a few idea's:
1. Each chance roll of resist done on a player, should have a lowered % of sticking after each attempt. This % penalty is lowered as you lvl effectiveness, to little or no penalty at mastery.
2. Doctor's should gain a "Vaccine"ability upon mastery. An ability similar to /healmind in cost, which enables a Master doc to remove poison or disease states. Cure poison/disease is effective butusually requires many doses to remove the state, even at master doc.
3. Raise Mind and blue stat buff rates by 50% minimum, and increase the duration of them to be more balanced with med buffs.
4. There should be food/drink options with either lowered effectiveness % over x time, or immunity options for both, with a restriction of only being able to be immune to one or the other, not both at the same time.
5. Rather than keep the damage at a constant rate, have it lowered a % with each tick. Example:100% first tick, 80% of 1st ticks damage next tick, 60% of 80%'s damage next tick...etc
Anyor allof these would help balance PVP without making CM useless.Now that defense stacking will be eliminated, this can only further balance the field. Flame on or add on!
You are very misinformed as to what CMs are and are not capable of. Please do not try to dictate changes CMs should have while being so ingnorant of the profession. This was a waste of by pre caffine morning.
I've been a CM since just before act 2. I knowtheir capabilities very well. You want to call it ignorance because you happened to catch a few tic errors yet show zero signs of intelligence other than posting a link?STICK TO THE TOPIC MAYBE? No, what people like you do is sit around trolling forum errors but give zero input otherwise to what the actual topic is about.
This is a broken PVP system period. And you need not look any further than this profession to find the reason. With any of those changes I mentioned howexactly does the CM becomes less balanced with the rest of the professions? I am a CM, so what does it tell you when an actual die hard CM notices a problem? I want a balance PVP system.
Name one movie or book in which the Combat Med in the SW Universe existed, or for that matter reaked this much havoc.
IT IS A JOKE PEOPLE.
NEO.........WAKE UP!!
Do you get the sig yet?
vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:46 am
#9
For a die-hard CM, you sure don't know your own profession all that well...
Jedi-scout
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:50 am
#10
vortexala wrote:
For a die-hard CM, you sure don't know your own profession all that well...
Feel better now that you trolled?
Actually, it's even more obvious you don't know PVP all that well...
Message Edited by Jedi-scout on 03-09-2004 08:53 AM
vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:52 am
#11
s'funny, was thinking the same thing about you 
Clamoring for a nerf for a profession you play, before ever seeing the changes coming down the pipeline, is nothing more then trolling.
Are there issues with the profession? Yes, but most of those are bugs. The rest will be taken care of through the combat revamp and the crafting changes.
Why attempt to double-nerf a profession you're presumably 'hard-core' about?
Clamoring for a nerf for a profession you play, before ever seeing the changes coming down the pipeline, is nothing more then trolling.
Are there issues with the profession? Yes, but most of those are bugs. The rest will be taken care of through the combat revamp and the crafting changes.
Why attempt to double-nerf a profession you're presumably 'hard-core' about?
Jedi-scout
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:59 am
#12
Sigh....perhaps when you see that 80% of the people playing L2are thoseleaving SWG because this prof is overpowered and at the height of a so called GCW. maybe then you will try to do something, in fact anything to make a difference. What's truly inspiring is the 2 "experts" I have heard from so far just flame. 2k posts and a few sticky's sure goes along way?
I am tired of the system and this profession isthe major reason. Why is that escaping your grasp?
Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:02 am
#13
Umm... Texxie just admitted that there are issues with the profession. Most of us have admitted there are issues with the profession.
Changes are coming. What more do you want us to do about it?
Continuing to harp about something that folks jut come here to vent about for no apparent reason beyond frustration that these changes are not yet fully implemented on Live do nobody any good.
I would suggest the GCW forum, however, if you really want to discuss balance issues about CMs with the other professions. THAT would be the proper forum to discuss this on.
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