Combat Medic Archive

Thread: CM needs restructuring now JUMP ON !!

vortexala
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:09 am
#14

Why does the simple fact escape you that if the devs implement any change to this profession now, we'll be stuck with it for a long, long while?

Anything done now will also have the Other changes tacked on top of it. Nerf now, then when the combat revamp hits we'll get That particular change as well. Same goes for the bug-fixes when those go in. Same goes for the crafting changes when those go in.

Would you like to reduce the profession to nothingness simply because of the current state of affairs in this game?

Let's look at the commandos as an example. They were borked from the get-go. Finally, after a long wait, they were elevated to a state where they could actually kill a durni without having to clone. It was a great change for them. They still had bugs and issues(and still do) but they were at least heading in the right direction. And then their nerf cries began. And then they were relegated to low-level waste disposal. They still hit hard with an FT, but they aren't nearly as good as they should be. And the remainder of their weapons aren't worth the effort. Hopefully with the combat revamp they'll be re-elevated to hard hitting status.

With CMs, a profession whose schematics and issues were borked at launch, we finally got things corrected. We finally started having a place on the battlefield other then simply a stim-tosser. But then new bugs hit us, and the nerf cries began.

Is it overpowered in some situations? Yes. I agree that there are issues that need to be dealt with. But dealing with them "right now" will only lead to further reduction later.

I've been accused in the past of thinking short term only...this time I'm looking at the big picture.

But if you can get a majority of the CMs on this board to agree to a change "right now" then, regardless of my personal opinion, that's exactly what I'll fight for.

But the burden is on your shoulders to persuade your fellow CMs...have at it.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:41 am
#15

I see a fallacious assumption here, Jedi-scout. You speak as if Puclish 7 where the Combat Revamp publish. It is not. Pub 7 is only around Step 2 or so of the full Revamp. (Do a search for Thunderheart as author and "Art of Combat" in the subject for full detail of the whole combat revamp.)



Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Jedi-scout
Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:56 am
#16

Where I got my info:



http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/recent_test_updates.jsp?page=In%20Testing



As for T-heart's posts, I plan on reading them and adding my 2 cents. Just was under the impression this was a done deal.


Thank you though for bringing it to my attention


/deepbows



Canadian Shield FIGHT Club -Retired-

The Original Dark-Jedi Killer


Zarlor
Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:48 am
#17

Yeah, your info is correct. It's just that we are really only in Step 2 of the Revamp still (the most painful step according to TH's post.)


For those interested the post in question is:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=14605


I suspect we still have at least 2 more publishes (possibly more) before everything is in place. The revamp should provide us with a much better baseline to work on balance issues with.


I do know that a couple of the worst offending bugs (LoS on AoEs and the 64m range cap) are proving to be very difficult to root out and fix, but that they are being worked on. Once a lot of those things are in place I hope we can really work better on the rest of the issues to get things balanced back out.


(Which would include some balance changes to Docs, IMHO, as well, mind you.)




Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Battron
Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:17 am
#18

Well after reading the wonderfull posts i decided to just post a lil instance that happened to me its pretty funny. So the day started off good just got master cm and i was running around like a chicken w/ me head cut off looking for the adv resources. As i get back i notic a flock of overt imps coming running through my town now we usualy leave the imps be till a raiding day buy or mayor put in some new rulings in our town so i did what they now want or procedure to be and warned them that all overt imps r being banned upon entering the citie as we have had to many problems. They give me some lip and this that and the other thing who do u think u are. Now i dont care i was coming to my house and its on the edge of town and can see them leave so i just send a tell to one of them saying pls just rmber that we dont want any problems in our town so if you could come covert next time it would be appreciated and pls tell your friends. One of his buddys sends me a tell back complaining so i go inside and make some poisins up not careing to listen to them anymore just telling one of the millita that overts were in town and just left. After about 5 min i get a tell from the reb town next door saying that they need some help that imps r raiding. R town realy doesnt care for theres because they cause lag for r vendors. But i go anyway to watch the at-st and what not see the base blow as i get there i get an invite and im covert so im not worried i get tefs to everyone in there group since everyone is shotting everyone. I notic that they all start to group up so i just walk over and tell them man i have a tef to all of u and they tell me ya whatever so i say oh ya and throw up may master cm tag they all ran off it was hillarious never the less the base was a no blow some kind of bug the imps said oh the fun it is to be a cm i have been one for awhile since then but i just love to remeber the time i got a bunch of imps scared.



Starsider
Maivi
TKM , Master Swords, Master Fencer
Past
Marksman, Medic, Cm
Dabbled in
Commando, Doc, Smuggler, Entertainer, ID, Pikeman
Post NGE Jedi noob
Pahdbacca
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:16 pm
#19






Jedi-scout wrote:





Pahdbacca wrote:





Jedi-scout wrote:
There is a major problem with this tree that is forcing alot of people to drop this game all together. It's effect on PVP is number one. The structure of effectiveness is way out of hand. The penalties when dropping a poison in PVP do not outway the damage by a long shot, especially when that damage is area effected. a 1 0 04 CM could own a group of anything in PVP. explain this:


1. A 1 0 0 4 CM would not be able to use area poison Cs.

2. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never (well, I suppose you could if a master made an area B poison with a venonm drop...if a master uses one of these loot drops in an area B poison, they are crazy) be able to use an area poison that could cause over 200 dmg per tic

3. A 1 0 0 4 CM would never be able to throw a poison 64m using a post patch pack. If they use a pre pack patch, I estimate the damage would be under 100 per tic

4. A 1 0 0 4 CM would throw so slowly and alreayd be in ranged weapon range that if you didn't kill them before they stack, you deserve to loose.


1. Show me where I state that a 1 0 04 CM could own a group of anything in PVP...I underlined and used italics concerning the statement i was talking about.

2. SHow me where I state that See #1 above

3. Maybe you should read the whole paragraph yet again I did...see #4 below

4. Are you having fun taking about 1 0 0 4 Cm's yet ? No, never thought it was fun in the first place. You stated that "The structure of effectiveness is way out of hand. The penalties when dropping a poison in PVP do not outway the damage by a long shot, especially when that damage is area effected." I was trying to show, using 4 points, how a CM with a lesser effectiveness (using the first box in effectiveness, as per your example) would be vastly inferior to a master CM in PvP combat. If it helps, please replace 'A 1 0 0 4 CM' with 'A CM with an effectiveness of 20.'


here is a link as to what a 1 0 0 4 CM can do with poisons


Imade, what i figured would be an obvious sarcastic statement. Or did you need a smiley face icon to catch on?


I had assumed that your argument was that the effectiveness levels of CM did not have significant penalties for PvP.


The statement 'A 1 0 0 4 CM could own a group of anything in PvP' would support this argument. If it is sarcasm, then it would not support your main argument. So are you shooting your own argument down?


Or, the case could be made that the whole argument itself was made as sarcasm...in which case, I think it was done in poor taste, especially on a furum where ther are already enough nerf cries.


Name one profession that can do 24k dmg, and 24k woundsto any number of targets with 2 hits???

(total damage/wound over2 min elaps @ 1k per 5 sec tic based on current uber poisons / diseases)


Poisons tick every 10 seconds...diseases tick every 40 seconds...you need to redo your math


My math is fine, the ticswereoff.I did not say your math was not fine, I just stated that you had to redo it using new numbers.


Why has this proffession become the final say in everything PVP now?


There needs to be changes done on a balanced CM PVP system. Here are a few idea's:


1. Each chance roll of resist done on a player, should have a lowered % of sticking after each attempt. This % penalty is lowered as you lvl effectiveness, to little or no penalty at mastery.


2. Doctor's should gain a "Vaccine"ability upon mastery. An ability similar to /healmind in cost, which enables a Master doc to remove poison or disease states. Cure poison/disease is effective butusually requires many doses to remove the state, even at master doc.


3. Raise Mind and blue stat buff rates by 50% minimum, and increase the duration of them to be more balanced with med buffs.


4. There should be food/drink options with either lowered effectiveness % over x time, or immunity options for both, with a restriction of only being able to be immune to one or the other, not both at the same time.


5. Rather than keep the damage at a constant rate, have it lowered a % with each tick. Example:100% first tick, 80% of 1st ticks damage next tick, 60% of 80%'s damage next tick...etc


Anyor allof these would help balance PVP without making CM useless.Now that defense stacking will be eliminated, this can only further balance the field. Flame on or add on!





You are very misinformed as to what CMs are and are not capable of. Please do not try to dictate changes CMs should have while being so ingnorant of the profession. This was a waste of by pre caffine morning.


I've been a CM since just before act 2. I knowtheir capabilities very well. You want to call it ignorance because you happened to catch a few tic errors yet show zero signs of intelligence other than posting a link?STICK TO THE TOPIC MAYBE? No, what people like you do is sit around trolling forum errors but give zero input otherwise to what the actual topic is about.






This is why I said you weremisinformed of the CM profession...



  1. When stating that the penalties for having a low effectiveness, you did not show that


    • effectivenessdetermines damage

    • effectiveness determines range

  2. You do not know the tic rates

  3. You do not know that C rated diseases using similar resources and experimentation will NEVER do nearly the same amount of damage as C rated poisons. Try crafting a C rated poison and a C rated disease and compare the 2 effectiveness ratings.


Time spent as a CM has nothing to do with knowing the capabilities of one. I know of CMs who have been master for less than 2 weeks that already know everything stated here. I also know CMs who have been master since before act 1 that would learn 5-6 new tings by reading this post.



This is a broken PVP system period. And you need not look any further than this profession to find the reason. With any of those changes I mentioned howexactly does the CM becomes less balanced with the rest of the professions? I am a CM, so what does it tell you when an actual die hard CM notices a problem? I want a balance PVP system.


They do not need to make changes to bring CMs further into line for PvP. They need to start by fixing current bugs, including range beyond 64m, ignoring LOS issues and the Z axis, and TEF issues. If PvP is still imbalanced after this, then we can start to consider other changes.


Name one movie or book in which the Combat Med in the SW Universe existed, or for that matter reaked this much havoc.


If this is a problem, go read the books or watch the movies.


IT IS A JOKE PEOPLE.


NEO.........WAKE UP!!



Do you get the sig yet?











-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
Schiller
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:32 pm
#20

Hehe ok i hate CMs but this thread is realy hardcore :-)


CMs are easy to kill. It just sucks that they can kill 20 people when already dead and cloned. Im glad to be master doc tho and all i wish to be fixed about cms is


1. fix their bugs (area effect through walls and outside max range, triple incap etc...)

2. give docs area cures.

3. make mind pools less weak and phyisical pools less strong


thats all.

Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:44 pm
#21






Schiller wrote:

Hehe ok i hate CMs but this thread is realy hardcore :-)


CMs are easy to kill. It just sucks that they can kill 20 people when already dead and cloned. Im glad to be master doc tho and all i wish to be fixed about cms is


1. fix their bugs (area effect through walls and outside max range, triple incap etc...)
Yes

2. give docs area cures.

And give us State Cures as well. If they get our trademark, we get theirs.

3. make mind pools less weak and phyisical pools less strong
Yes


thats all.









Carbicide: "The victimless crime!"
BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

"I lead with my intellect, wits, example and the big nasty gun that I use to shoot everyone who doesn't follow my orders"
Rennec Bibo, proud owner of some sort of carbine since november 2003.
Pahdbacca
Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:03 pm
#22






Mild-Breeze-Trooper wrote:





Schiller wrote:

Hehe ok i hate CMs but this thread is realy hardcore :-)


CMs are easy to kill. It just sucks that they can kill 20 people when already dead and cloned. Im glad to be master doc tho and all i wish to be fixed about cms is


1. fix their bugs (area effect through walls and outside max range, triple incap etc...)
Yes

2. give docs area cures.

And give us State Cures as well. If they get our trademark, we get theirs.

3. make mind pools less weak and phyisical pools less strong
Yes


thats all.













Sounds good to me





-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
Lavendryll
Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:14 am
#23

Stop your whining your hurting my ears...hehe.


How about making doctor heal poison and disease an area effect instead of nurfing us?






Master Dancer
Master Entertainer
Master Medic
Master Combat Medic
Master TKA
Master Bounty Hunter
Master RIfle
REBEL COLONEL
Jedi-scout
Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:45 am
#24

Pahd my whole pointfrom the 1st paragraph of this thread had nothing to do with 1 0 0 4 CM's,the last sentence that youunderlinedwould have been at the start of the papragraph had that been the case.Yet again I have to explain this but think what you want bro. I'm done re-quoting the whole thing over and over. I got what I wanted.....ACTUAL IDEAS. Please put the flamethrower back in the broom closet.



Canadian Shield FIGHT Club -Retired-

The Original Dark-Jedi Killer


Jedi-scout
Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:48 am
#25






Lavendryll wrote:

Stop your whining your hurting my ears...hehe.


How about making doctor heal poison and disease an area effect instead of nurfing us?









I am all for it. It's about ideas here. Some people seem to think otherwise.



Canadian Shield FIGHT Club -Retired-

The Original Dark-Jedi Killer


DarthCedric
Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:43 pm
#26



Jedi-scout wrote:
Now that defense stacking will be eliminated,




Is it really? As I recall, defenses are being capped at +125. CM effectiveness, for example, is capped at +100.

But that is not the issue, I'm currently 2043 Pistoleer, I have Dodge +40. It already works great, I can't imagine how good it will be if it was 125. Defenses will still be insane, and mofos will still be out there Adv Strafing Krayts solo and raking in the credits.

CM is not a problem in the game right now, if you think unhittable buffed armored combatants is not overpowered.



Darqyeti
Master Chef
Master Pistoleer

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