Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Dev Feedback on medical DoTs...
So although it would be a nice fix to all PvP problems (mind bleeds, mind shots, mind poison/disease), unless a lot was changed in the combat patch then it might cause more problems than you think.
2 -barring area cure, allow poison to only be applied to one person at a time in PvP (if doc's do not get an area cure, then there should be no area attack)
3 -add some type of mind heal (something greatly needed and has never truly been implemented...i knw what a strain it is for CM's to currently heal mind). What strikes me as funny is that the Dev's came out and said a while back that mind was NEVER supposed to play such a decisive role in PvP as it does.....and yet here we are. They giveth with the rigth hand and yet do the opposite with the left.
4 -PvP reduction of CM damages
5 -add resists (sum1 stated that chef's were goign to be able to do this next publish....does anyone know how effective/ to what extent this is really helpful????)
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Ok Let me answer this by number oh and btw your pictures you posted about the PvP battle if you READ the posts they were also talking about TKA AREA ATTACKS not poisons in which the people in the base were killed (LOL!). Why a person with the name Panzer doesnt have any strategy is beyond me.
1. Ok if you want that I want a delay on any attack for 8 secs where a doctor can come up and give me a protection from damage where if he apples it within 8 secs I get 0 DAMAGE while you are at it make it area.
2. Ok no area anything my 600 damage poisons damages as soon as it hits (health and action) and you cant use a stim until the poison is cured.
3 sure but read point 2 then
4 yea increase it because i know I have been hit harder by some peoples attacks then the damage output i do.
5. Fine as long as it means they cant sit there and use cure foods like they are going out of style otherwise they should give me food with 100% protection to electrical acid and other attacks too because armor just doesnt cut it.
I agree with your first statement there are not enough Doctors in this game but you want them to change the game mechanics because of this. Get your guild together or take doc up to 4/0/0/0 so you can cure yourself. Too many people want these uber templates and want ot make sure they cant be hurt is the big problem.
PanzerGR wrote:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=98188
im gonna get flamed in this forum posting this but it needs to be done.
Read that thread and read all of it, especially one of my last replies that has a link to a thread about a PvP battle in it.
I know a few other correspondants who they, themselves, feel that CM poisons in pvP are very imbalanced and they were ticked when the devs said this was a balanced issue. It is not.
Sure but as many correspondents are so quick to point out, what are they anyway? A glorified player someone that has a little more input to the devs than your standard poster. A correspondent from another profession has no more information about being a combat medic than I do about being a Commando.
you can read almost anything you could want to hear me say on this topic in the above posted thread.
Quite simply put....CM requires the least combat experience of ANY combat oriented proffession in the game.....and yetw ith stacked poisons they can deliver MORE DAMAGE than any other combat class in PvP. With the 75% PvP reduction, damage mitigations, and armor int he game poison and disease do more damage than any other attack, period. Straight and simple.
Yeah we require less combat experience, but it is one of the hardest experience areas for us to get. Since the only thing we get combat experience for is our poisons and diseases, it makes it difficult to get combat experience.
CM DoTs are stackable, there are no resists, there is no mitigation.....and for petes sake they dont even suffer 75% PvP reduction. Not only that, but you can AREA POISON INSANE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE. In one thread I listed, a guy from an imp guild was bragging because he was able to poison TWENTY SEVEN people.....TWENTY SEVEN.
27 people all bunched up together. It is not like we have an area of effect that effects a 100 meter radius in the game. The best we can do is 20 meters so if you are all within 20 meters of each other well then you are going to get poisoned and diseased. The last I looked commandos and Carbineers have AoE attacks as well. Yeah I know they are not as wide ranged as ours, but their attacks are considerably stronger per second than ours.
I dont care how many doctors you have in a group....you cant cure 27 people before at least 8 of them are pretty much dead. And one thing many people fail to realize is, if the doctors get poisoned and diseased, there isnt much they can do to fix the problem.
You have guilds and PvP groups in the game who use 3 or more Combat Medics in a group everywhere they go.....the only way to counter that is to have that many of your own, or to have twice as many doctors with you. Plain and simple......MOST PvP I HAVE DONE LATELY, has coem down to who has the most CM's and/or doctors. Quite frankly this is quite irritating and leads to very unfun battles.
This is starwars, not doctor wars. These battles should NOT be comign down to who can sling the most poison or cure DoT's the fastest. Liek the battle of hoth or endor...the battles came down to whoever could punch a hole in the line and force their enemy to surrender or be eliminated. This was done by force, tactic, and power.....not by who threw the most poisons.
I have a suggestion for you, instead of pounding your head against the wall about Combat Medic DoTs being overpowered after the devs said they are not, why not champion the effort to get some healing of mind put into the game. No one ever complains about getting a health or Action poison. Why? Because doctors and CMs can heal that very easily, it always comes down to mind damage and you well know it.
At 600 points of damage per every ten seconds that equals out to 60 points of damage every second. Every other combat profession out there can out damage that very easily. Many CMs have said and I would agree with them that PvP damage already has a 75% reduction on it, and PVE needs to be upped to make us truly the elite class we are.
Now the argument here is that by being able to effect so many people with AoE that we are overpowered. Alright then we can leave the damage where it is and it makes us the Elite class we are.
You can say "go make a CM yourself" or "this is the only attack I get" or whatever else you want. But thats not a solution to the problem. That does not solve the fact htis is unbalanced in PvP, it does not solve the fact that these atatcks have NOTHING to do with Star Wars.
They have every bit as much to do with Star Wars as a Doctor buffing you, or shuttles that take you anywhere you want to go in an instant, or Rebel bases just popping up with three or four members in it. Or how about a creature handler that has three pets that follow the every command of the CH no matter what the conditions. This is a game and Lucas has signed off on it that these classes exist. It is not up to you to decide what should or should not be in the game since you have nothing to do with the franchise.
It should NOT be possible for one guy to poison 27 people.....you cant cure it that fast by any means of the imigination. Most of the time when im in a larger PvP battle, I get poisoned 3 times wihtin 5 or 6 seconds.....by the tiem the last poison hits ive already lost a good deal of HAM....if the opposite group has multipel CM's, you may as well write the battle off if you do not have a huge number of doctors.
I have been a huge proponent of giving doctors an Area of Effect cure for poisons.
Anyway im not going to keep going with this....you have what ive posted here plus the other thread to go on.
a few simple/possible solutions:
-cause poison and disease to suffer the same reductions in pvP all other attacks do
Not going to happen.
-add some type of a base resist (perhaps by # of medics in a group or some medical device you can buy)
Coming with the new chef changes. With food now you can raise your resists.
-give doctors AREA CURE
Agreed
-create an antidotestimpack that anyone can use, acts somewhat like first aid for bleeding. (they did, afterall, go after creating soemthign to extinguish flames on flamethrowers)
Only for those that have Novice Medic skills. If you have that, then you could have a cure that would halt the effect of the poison for a short period of time.
in short....im not saying this should be thrown out of the game (even though ive never understood why it's in the game). But there are a myriad of possible fixes to this DoT's uberness in PvP battles and they NEED to be addressed.
I have no doubt the dev's think poison is working ok for PvE......but it sure as heck is not balanced for PvP, it is the strongest attack int he game, with the ability to wipe out entire groups in 1 or 2 go's, and it needs to end.
Poison itself is NOT doing this. The PROBLEM is MIND DAMAGE, come on man you know it, I know it, even the devs know it. This is the real problem area.
I realize, probably more than many people, why CM was given an attack. It was probably designed to be there for any players who wanted to create a medic type character, and yet still wanted to have the ability to fight. All well and good. But what has happened is, it has been realzied with all the other combat changes that poison is probably the most uber attack of them all, and so now anyone with half a mind to control the outcome of PvP battles take sup CM. The number of CM/Riflemen you see in PvP on my server is absolutely absurd.
A even better testimony that I am correct. Your acknowledment about Rifleman/CM brings my point home. It is not about poison, it is about MIND poison and MIND Damage seeing that Rifleman is another mind attacking profession.
Im sorry if any of you feel im bashing the CM proffession. Im not trying to do so. But after months of experience, recent combat changes, etc it has become extremely clear and apparent to me that, FOR PvP, poison and disease are extremely overpowered.
I dare any Dev to make a character on my server and get into a lot of PvP battles every week. GURANTEED...I GURANTEE that 4/5 battles with more thna 10 people are determined by Combat medics.
Apologies for the typos. My spelling is good, but it is late and my fingers falter.
4 out of 5 of your arguments against poison and disease and nerfing combat medics can be repaired by ONE simple addition to the game. Effective heals on mind damage. Figure out a way for medics to be able to heal mind damage and you have the biggest PvP balancing move in the game. This has been a problem since day one.
How many times have you been incapped from a Health or Action poison? I would be willing to bet you never have been. It is all about mind poison and that is what needs fixing.
Throw in a couple of additions to the medic skill tree and all of your complaints here are dealt with.
ok then, since no one has really given good answers to a large summary of arguments....
someone explain to me, in LOGICAL REASONING, why a combat medic, who needs 1/10 the COMBAT EXPERIENCE AND NO WEAPON EXPERIENCE of any combat profession in the game....even less than Squad Leaders I might add..........why these people with the lowest COMBAT req's have the strongest PvP attack int he game.
it is without defense, as it is all factual.....that it ignores everythign that all other attacks adhere to; armor, resists, mitigations, and damage reductions. It can area effect more peopel than ANY attack int he game made by a master of any other Combat field.
So i am STILL awaiting a GOOD explanation as to why you even DESERVE such a powerful attack int he first place......not even going back to all my other arguments. Simply put, tell me WHY you deserve such a powerful attack considering you can grind in coronet for a few days and get most of your XP.
youneed like 40k of combat XP or so....and then a ton of medic XP (which is one of the easiest XP's in the game to gain). And yet you have an attack which is more potent than any other mastered combat profession int he game including BH's and Commandos.
They cant area effect 10+ people at once.
so barring all else.....give me a logical explanation as to why you deserve this attack. What do you base this on. Where does it say "Combat medic shall be the uber large-battle factorial class int he game"
PanzerGR wrote:
ok then, since no one has really given good answers to a large summary of arguments....
someone explain to me, in LOGICAL REASONING, why a combat medic, who needs 1/10 the COMBAT EXPERIENCE AND NO WEAPON EXPERIENCE of any combat profession in the game....even less than Squad Leaders I might add..........why these people with the lowest COMBAT req's have the strongest PvP attack int he game.
Let me attempt to try this again. I told you before that we might not have to have all the combat experience that other classes have to get, but it is the hardest for us to get. What does combat experience have to do with medical experience anyway. In fact you cannot even become a Combat Medic until you have aquired all the combat experience you need. SO effectively we have to learn weapons skills and use them to get the combat experience we need in order to become combat medic at all.
This is like telling all the bounty hunters that you have to master medicine crafting in order to become a master bounty hunter.
No one in the combat medic community is saying that we should not have a combat element to us, on the contrary, but your argument that we do not require ENOUGH combat experience is flawed.
it is without defense, as it is all factual.....that it ignores everythign that all other attacks adhere to; armor, resists, mitigations, and damage reductions. It can area effect more peopel than ANY attack int he game made by a master of any other Combat field.
You are correct, no arguments, again that is the trade off we make. Yeah we have to work hard to get the combat experience to throw our poisons, but once we are there we have a unique use in combat that makes us worth having around. All that hard work and trouble pays off at that point. All the time spent crafting medicines and begging for waypoints to resources because we do not have enough points left to have artisan. All of these things are BALANCING issues that make us not as powerful as you would have it seem.
So i am STILL awaiting a GOOD explanation as to why you even DESERVE such a powerful attack int he first place......not even going back to all my other arguments. Simply put, tell me WHY you deserve such a powerful attack considering you can grind in coronet for a few days and get most of your XP.
Why should we have to explain that we DESERVE anything to you? Why does a BH DESERVE to have a spammable knockdown, why does a CH DESERVE to be able to have three very powerful pets at the same time, and I cannot have more than one faction pet. Why does a Teri Kasi DESERVE to be nearly unhittable in combat. All of those professions (other than bounty hunter) require less expenditure of skill points than we do.
The truth is that the Devs said we deserve to have this, that should be good enough for you.
youneed like 40k of combat XP or so....and then a ton of medic XP (which is one of the easiest XP's in the game to gain). And yet you have an attack which is more potent than any other mastered combat profession int he game including BH's and Commandos.
Again you are wrong. When you look at the damage done over time we do not have the most powerful attack in the game. We have a niche that is easily countered in combat that makes us very powerful if our opponent is not prepared, but very few one on one battles with a combat medic will find the CM victorius.
It is not about the amoung of a single type of experience we need. Frankly combat experience comes much faster to the weapons professionals. It took me a long time to get that 40K of combat experience. Especially when I was trying to master medic at the same time. It is not so easy to do. Medical experience is easier to get I grant you that, especially for a combat medic, but I think our leveling to power is balanced.
They cant area effect 10+ people at once.
so barring all else.....give me a logical explanation as to why you deserve this attack. What do you base this on. Where does it say "Combat medic shall be the uber large-battle factorial class int he game"
Actually it says that in the Prima manual the last time I looked.
Oh and in so many words it says that in the initial post of this thread. THe developers have said that poison and disease are balanced, who are you to say they are not? Some player that is upset because he cannot handle the mind damage?
Woo hoo.
So now, while they nerf defense stacking which is the only way people stay alive... and there are already more CM's than normal fighters it seems... they essentially nerf every combat profession and bring to the forefront and already powerful non-combat profession, and make them more powerful by nerfing everybody else.
Haha. If you guys think there are a lot of CM's now... just wait until they finish turning this into a class based game where regardless of how many of your 250 points you've spent on combat skills, you'll still be as good as someone who only spent 92 points on a combat skill.
Say goodbye to "normal" PvP. Say hello to full-scale germ warfare.
Now in order to be successful in PvP al you have to do is be a Combat Medic with some form of marksmanship so you can do that 1 damage you need to do, assuming you don't do your typical stack the disease on the poison thing.
Woo hoo fun times ahead for all!
/puke
Some of younerf criers don't read too well, do you?
Whay are you tryng to complain about CM damage (which is unarguably less than that of other professions) when your issues are not with the damage we do, but all those other areas for most of which ther eis already a fix in the works?
Range past 64m? Bug.
Mind damge? Being fixed in the combat revamp.
No resist to poison? There already is, we just experiment it out (mostly, we still get resists anyway, though), plus there will be Chef foods to help that out in this next publish.
AoE Poisons have a lack of effective counter? Well, ok I tend to agree with that one, but many solution have been offered for it.
The damage isn't the issue here. It's these other areas.
But go ahead and complain about Mind Damage and Range if it makes you feel better. Too bad you are just wasting your breath complaing about something that is already going to be fixed in a thread about something that isn't going to change and has nothing to do with those issues anyway.
The problem isn't CM poisons at all, it's that armor is overpowered.
Players can build up near 90 to 100% resistances vs some attacks and currently stack defence skills. After a bit of this, they get the idea that sincethey're immune to one kind of attack - now they need to be immune to all of them.
If armor and defence wasn't broken, then other forms of attack would be more effective, and more in line with CM poisons and disease (which again, are just fine as they are).