Combat Medic Archive
Thread: How many of you plan to drop Combat Medic if 1hp poison goes live?
ah ok that makes sense. so i guess then you guys should be 1/4th as strong as a commando, sinceyou use the same skill points, but only one column is devoted to attacking 
(i just got massed aoe mind poisoned again at a base defense battle, so im a little edgy 
)
Zarlor wrote:
Toxicologist, Medical Tactician, Chemical Warfare Expert and I can;t remember the last one either.
Expert Combat Medic (helps explainthe meaning of Combat Medic
Arietta Phoenix
Master Doctor 4/4/2/4 Combat Medic
Tranced wrote:
Austrian wrote:
# CM's should be able to go head to head with commandos and bounty hunters and sometimes win, this change will make the CM lose ALL of the time.
Take that out please. We can heal 20 people at once, we're not supposed to go toe to toe with a commando or a BH and have a 50/50 chance of winning.
(quote is obviously from austrian)
this kinda personifies what i was trying to get at: youre healing skills are incredibly power, so youre attacking skills need to take a hit, because putting them both together effectively means you are by far (and i mean very far - a competent cm will dominate any battle) the best class in pvp. ironic that a medic is the best attacker in combat, better than sniper rifles, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, and bounty hunters (i doubt fett died too many times at the hands of a medic).
actualy in defense of austrian, and to make it a bit clearer, austrian was not suggesting that CM's should have a 50/50 chance agains BH and commando's, he was asking me to remove that statement from my points on the original post. so both you and austrian are in agreement on this point Tranced. The post above may seem a bit confusing to other readers, and that's the last thing we need right now.
Tranced wrote:
thats where i primarily disagree with you. in my views, combat medic is not an attacking class, its a support class.
And this is where we simply get stuck. WHat IS a Combat Medic all about? We've not really gotten a good clear vision from the Devs on this, so we must go more on what we see. What I see, if nothing else, is that we have a Title avaiable to us of "Chemical Warfare Specialist". THat title clearly tells me, at any rate, that we are not strictly support, but an offensive capable profession. At any rate, unless the Devs declare otherwise that's where we'll jsut have to stand on it, as far as I can tell.
as it stands now though, a cm can kill anybody in combat (including commandos and bhs). going back to the original idea of the thread, something more than the 1hp thing needs to change to get cms in a spot where theyre in a support role (or as you think, a role that can kill rifleman but not bhs).
Actually the 1hp thing has no real relavance on what you are stating anyways because, in fact, it was never meant to adress any kind of percieved CM imbalance. It was meant to address a not very good "fix" for poison durations. The current answer on Live is what we've taken to calling the "incap-dance". The 1 hp thing is simply meant to primarily address that, not a balance issue.
to kavedawg:
i might have been the one to word my post wrong, but i actually support what austrian said. i couldnt quite find the correct wording of what i wanted to say in my above post, but when i saw austrians quote i agreed with him completely - and decided to use that as an example of what i think.
WHat IS a Combat Medic all about? We've not really gotten a good clear vision from the Devs on this, so we must go more on what we see
i agree that the devs havent really defined cms as to what they are suppose to be. at this point we can only guess, because there is obviously evidence in both directions, but not enough to validate any views.
however, knowing what we know about the power of cms in pvp, do you agree with me that some change must be done to poison in order to get them in line with your view of where a cm should be on the heirarchy of combat classes? again, as of now the extent of that change cant be worked out because no concrete design of cm has been made available to us (ie: i think theyre suport, you think theyre a direct combat class etc.)
I wont quit CM after this comes live. We are a Commbat support Class and not a Killer Maschine. Poisen still Supports Combat and with theschematics fixed we have some new options to Play with.
Sure its fun to be a very good PvP Class, also in 1vs1 but as a support Class we should notbe one of the most powerfull PvP Classes. Imostly win against BH, Commandosetc. etc. thats pure fight classes and they should be better in fighting then a Combat Medic!
For PvE the change is a solution, not the best but it is a solution. For PvP it makes live harder but in my opinon it fits in the role of a Support Class but with the fixex of our Schematics and working Area Diseace C, i see a lot nerf shouting comming up. I dont know how strong Aera Dieseace C will be, but when it can take down a large group of player, sitting in the medcenter/Cantina for half an hour after meeting a CM in the field, we will see a nerf soon.
To address the role we play in the game, dont only look to the titels, take a look in the Skills needed, Ranged Support needs 29 Skill Points, Master Medic need 77 Skill Points, sowe can wight the name Combat Medic to 1/3 Combat and 2/3 Medic. If i look at the Combat Medic this way i see that our Medic abilitys are underpowerd and our Combat ablitys are overpowerd! And you can also say that the Combat in the Name addresses the abilty to be a medic in combat and it would make sence without anyattack abilltys. But for that we get to less Medic abilltys. What i want to see in the Medic abiltys are some kind of short duration Aera Buffs, some sort of short duration Area Attack/Defence modifyer, maybe a short duration Aera poisen/diseace protection and on the offence side some kind off debuffes like breaking doc/entertainer buffs, blind, etc. etc. imho this willfitmore in the role of a Support Class. A support class is imho a group player so he can support a group, like it is now we are more a figthing Class then a group supporter.
Dont understand me wrong i like the CM as it is now and if i had to decide anything i wouldnt change anything, includingnot fixing the schematics!
Again with the 'support' statement and the skill point arguments
Fact of the matter is, we are required to take a combat profession therefore we are a combat class. The support abilities are only half of our class, the other half is offense. Each tree in the CM prof benefits our offensive and support abilities. Everybody get this one through your heads, we are a COMBAT/SUPPORT profession. Both at the same time, wow, hard concept I know 
You say we are 1/3 Combat and 2/3 support based on the skill point disbursement. Take a look at BH's for a moment. Scout is a non-combat profession just like Medic. It is used to provide various outdoors abilities. And in the BH line itself, Investigation is a non-combat line, correct?
So, taking their whole 216 points used into consideration, they are 115 points combat and 91 points non-combat. Almost 50/50!! They are only 12 points away from being a 50% NON-COMBAT class, yet we are led to believe they are supposed to be number one combat class. Going by skill point distribution that would be Commandos who put 169 into their class and it is all 100% Combat skills.
Considering all that, and what the devs have said, the only conclusions that can be made about the professions is that
A) More skill points in a combat class should equal more powerful
B) If you are required to take even partially a combat profession, then you are a combat class.
Our poisons, powerful as they may be, do not give us the flexibility that all the different skill lines give BH's and Commandos. Smugglers are like us, a combat profession but limited in what form of combat they specialize in, made up for with other support type abilities (slicing is definitely a supportability, makes your weapons and armor better). Doesn't mean their combat skills should be weak, just not flexible.
I can throw poison and disease, and shoot a weapon with the barest of ability. Nothing else (unless I put skill points into something else, but i'm a doc also).
A BH can use an LLC, Scatter Pistol, and carbines with deadly accuracy and various special moves. They are much faster with these weapons than I will ever be. They can take bounty missions. They can make camps, and harvest animals. They have VARIETY and FLEXIBILITY.
A commando can fight well barehanded, use a Launcher pistol, Acid rifle, Flame thrower, Rocket Launcher and grenades with deadly accuracy and various special moves. They are much faster with these weapons than I will ever be. They can use all marksman weapons very well. They have VARIETY and FLEXIBILITY.
I can throw poison and disease, and shoot a so-so weapon with cruddy accuracy, speed and specials.
Someone brought up that a CM should have a SkillpointsReqforMCM:SkillpointsReqforMBH chance of winning against a BH. I am inclined to agree with that formula when you modify it a bit.
SkillpointsReqforMCM - a value to be determined for AE heals and Ranged heals. If you want to compare the dmg capabilities of two classes you also have to take the other abilities a class has into consideration. A BH is able to deal out mind dmg. So are we. A BH has a better damage ratio, but we have superior range. He can bleed/Dizzy etc, we can disease. But we can AE heal, we can heal other persons from a big range etc. So basically we're not supposed to have a 50/50 chance of winning against a BH. We should have a chance evaluated against our other skills. No way in hell should a class with support abilities be able to defeat a class that lives for dmg output in 50% of the fights.
And to Ayianu.. if you havent created a 64+m range poison you disqualify for this discussion, since you obviously dont know what a CM can do and what he can not do. My poison starts out with 62m range without putting one point into experimentation. Its called Advanced Disp Mechs. Why should anyone point out why a CM isnt supposed to own BHs and commandos? Geesh, use common reason. We can AE heal and Range Heal. Now we're supposed to do more dmg than BHs and Commandos too?
And I can craft you a 40 range (80m as MCM) poison, it will just have only 106 eff (at least till I get that schweet 950+ OQ fiber I am currently harvesting). Adv Disp Mechs and a 950+ conductivity of your metal will help you to top 32 range easily w/o exp points.
Arguing that CM dont have 64+ range is like wondering why you cant kill people with a CDEF as a BH.