CUEmu - Thread Posts

Vlherg

Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:39 am

BadgerSmaker wrote:
Oh, did I mention that along with increasing the action costs on our heals and debuffs, they are removingall mind costs from Jedi heals?

Is this confirmed as being intended? I was under the impression that it may be a bug and that Jedi heals were also supposed to have mind & action costs.

The Capel sisters, Taren & Dyoni
Taren - Dark Force Adept (killed by NGE)
Dyoni - Tailor, Weaponsmith, Artisan (killed by NGE)

sexade

Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:51 am

#41

BadgerSmaker wrote:

MolemanMole wrote:

Sorry i might of jumped the gun a little on this. Just makes me mad they mess with stuff after people get used to it. Id say let jedi have theirs pearls, and crystals. and let us have our stuff.

Appreciate your hard work guys!

What you need to go is what Brainplay did, come up with constructive reasons why this is a poor decision.

When you all have enough ammo to throw at the issue, Psionic can go slap a dev with it.

nerf wars FTL!

MolemanMole comes up with a constructive suggestion "let jedi have theirs pearls" which is all we want along with the speed issues fixing for all proffesions. Yet i find the pistoleer correspondant instead suggesting, on the combat medic forum, the best ways nerf can be cried. I hope you are proud

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Woff ~ Elder Jedi Bum
Coastis ~ Rebel Propagandist

Smuggly1

Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:27 am

#42

The way I see it, this type of increase in action and mind cost for healing and debuffs effectively removes CM and Doc from being viable support professions. This essentially means that anyone tasked with healing roles in a group has to choose either to be purely a healer or an active combatant, and won't be able to play a mixed role in group settings, either PvE or PvP. And essentailly negates half ofany healer-orientedtemplate in combat senarios. And will completely negate any solo ability against high-end mobs.

I also have to say that I'm a bit confused as to the reason for the increases in the first place. Why are the costs being increased as such? Probably won't get an answer to that question but it can't hurt to ask right? I get the feeling that a lot of this has to do with Jedi vs CM / MBH-templates, and without considering the ramifications of this change to all styles of gameplay, this will have far reaching effects which have nothing to do with Jedi vs BH.

I like the suggestion of leaving the costs for healing the way they are now, and possibly reducing the Jedi cost for healing 1-2%, to balance the fact that they are supposd to be 1.5X stronger.

I also like the idea ofspreading the healing efficiency modifier across the healer skill trees, and would actually prefer this solution. This will not discourage dabblers, and I see no reason to discourage dabblers anyway. But, will have an appropriate reduction in their effectiveness compared to Master Healers, and personally I believe this would retain balance across healing in templates.

Dabblers would have less effective heals they would need to use more often, and Masters would have more powerful heals they would need to use less often.In group settings this would balance as well, since the majority of healing would come from the Master templates but be supplemented by healing dabblertemplates, and still not reduce the combat effectiveness of either MCM or MDoc, which get very little in the way of offense or defense for their skill point investment in their healing professions.

Just my thoughts.

Edit: Edited for readability

Edit: Edited for clarity

Message Edited by Smuggly1 on 10-11-2005 10:32 AM

Message Edited by Smuggly1 on 10-11-2005 02:43 PM

Eldarin

Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:20 pm

#43

Iawalein wrote:

RebMBH wrote:

Just outa curiosity, do jedi heals have an action cost or just force and mind?

Not crying nerf just wondering because I don't know the answer.

Jedi heals have force, action AND mind costs. We're the only ones who are triple taxed on heals (and all other actions for that matter).

non-jedi don't have force,so getting the triple tax doesn't mean anything

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KeeferKman

Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:25 pm

#44

Nathanielstarr wrote:

As long as it's even its a good thing. It will make you have to use heals more wisely and fights will not be quite as long.

I'm more concerned about what they are doing to pistoleers in pve.

It will be even more of a mind war... remember the old days pre-cu? It was alwasy about mind...welcome back!

No Gaming Enjoyment

MolemanMole

Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:00 pm

#45

Badgersmaker wrote:____________________________________________________________________________

What you need to go is what Brainplay did, come up with constructive reasons why this is a poor decision.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Badger-thanks for the response. I will try to be a little better on point about my responses. ButI got to tell you i like the way it is now. I think the way things are now thats how they should be. If we go any further into the hole im not going to have action to pull myself out or mind left enough to even think about doing it! Just my views.Maybe someone could refresh my memory. Why are they changing the way heals are anyways? Is something goodly broken? Can something be unbalanced in a good way? LOL

Good Day!

MoLEMAN BRICKHoUSE
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ANIL v JACKCRACKERvMCMoLE
Mole Hole! Dantooine, Flurry: 356 -2670 Antarian city

Corina_Deepstarr

Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:36 pm

#46

BadgerSmaker wrote:
Oh, did I mention that along with increasing the action costs on our heals and debuffs, they are removingall mind costs from Jedi heals?

This is all on TC-Prime at the moment and will probably go live unless someone can come up with a constructive arguement against it.

I'm not sure what to say at the moment and all my time was taking up killing the crowd control nerf. Any suggestions?

Here is a solution...REMOVE THE FORCE BAR...then perhaps mind cost to Jedi heals will be reasonable.

:::::::::::::::::::A Proud Pre CU Jedi who did it the right way::::::::::::::::::

TheGreatFreyr

Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:37 pm

#47

now where did jedi say we wanted to get rid of mind costs for heals? i can't remember a post about it, i remember a lot of people saying get rid of force all together but not mind costs.....

*and to that one guy a lota posts up that said it's a little force cost to use heal, it's like over 100force which is a lot*

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~~0000000000000000000000000000~~Dark Wookie Jedi

Nathanielstarr

Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:31 pm

#48

I think the answer is be a good little boy and go Jedi.

SoulHunters

Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:29 pm

#49

BadgerSmaker wrote:

MolemanMole wrote:

Sorry i might of jumped the gun a little on this. Just makes me mad they mess with stuff after people get used to it. Id say let jedi have theirs pearls, and crystals. and let us have our stuff.

Appreciate your hard work guys!

What you need to go is what Brainplay did, come up with constructive reasons why this is a poor decision.

When you all have enough ammo to throw at the issue, Psionic can go slap a dev with it.

How about this.Will anyone really drop their MCM, MDoc, or parts of the before mentioned? Did drastically increasing action costs for KD Recovery stop people from using KD Recover? No because its necessary, and with healing, whether in dabbling or mastering, is necessary in the CU as even afterthis action cost "nerf." The benefits ofputting SPinto healinglends much more to staying alivethan the same SP investment into other boxes that give say speed, accuracy, or defenses. The only difference though will be that everyone will have to pay even more attention to their action, and have to change their style of combat to conserve action, which will come at the cost of damage output, andthis will lead to combat being even less dynamic and much slower than it already is.

BasicallyPvP will boil down to A trying to outlast B by A by keeping his eye on his action pool the entire time just in case B knocks him down or somehow causes enough damage to cause A to need to heal. Too bad both are so worried about keeping enough action in reserve that damage output is so low on both sides that by the time one of them actually needs to heal again, the action from the previous heal has probably already been regenned anyways. Essentially instead ofwatching your opponent to counterracthis move, or try to guess his next moveto get the upper hand,well actually fighting your opponent, you sit there staring at your stat pools constantly monitoring making sure you wont be stuck "feeling too weak to pull the trigger." And well in PvE, justimagineB as having infinite action and mind pools as youKD recoverevery 30 seconds, watching your action disappear even further with every healrendering maybe half of your action pool actually available for damage output at any time.

Brainplay

Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:33 pm

#50

Nathanielstarr wrote:
I think the answer is be a good little boy and go Jedi.

Thats SOE's answer for everything. Why be anything else besides a Jedi? Jedi have taken over PvP. Wonder why? Jedi are better for PvE. Wonder why? Jedi cry nerf and have the nerve to say their profession is worse off than regular professions. LOL

Yet spin groups still rule dantoonie....

Keorythe

h Combat Medic h

/Forcing Counterstrike PvPers to PvE since 2003 \

A Combat Medic Alpha tester who never got the chance to alpha test

Corran85

Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:51 pm

#51

well, when i posted this, i was merely asking if the numbers were right, but since this has turned into a discussion of sorts, i suppose i should put in my two cents. Now, i have always been a medic/doctor/combat medic, always like the ability to heal, its mroe important now then it was before CU, but anyway, something needed to be done to reign in the healers, to make them make choices in battle and how to use their abilities. Im glad for the changes....right now, when they come out, will have to see how fast they drain your pools, but i do not think healer was supposed to be as powerful as it is. CU came out, and tried to get people to work together and group more in combat, and it has to an extent, but healers have been able to do a lot on their own because there has been relatively little cost to them. Anyway, theres my thought on it. And no, i will not give up any of my healer abilities on any character......

Smuggly1

Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:42 am

#52

I agree that there is an imbalance right now with healing in dabbler templates compared to master healer templates, but don't agree that healing needs to be 'reigned in' at the expense of combat effectiveness for master healers. The imbalance right now as I see it, isn't that healers are able to do so much on their own, asI was more combat efficient when I wasn't a master healer, due to the added modifiers to defense and offense that the 'pure' combat professionsoffer, but rather the healing dabblers 4xxx CM and the equivalent healing lines in Doc are as effective in their healing abilities as the Master healer professions.

The way I see to alter the system now, and maintain a proper balance among different templates is to alter the healing efficiency modifier stat across the healer trees. This would effectively reduce the healing efficiency of 'dabbler' healers, who want to maintain their high damage outputs and leave Master healers in the role they should play, as a mixed combat/healer. This is true of all the healer trees, and should be applied to Jedi healing as well I believe. As the templates dedicated to Mastering the healing arts should always have higher healing abilities than those templates that use healing to supplement their other abilities.

The problem with the system as applied now, and has been discussed here and elsewhere, is that for a relatively litte expenditure of skillpoints, a 'dabbler' healer can have Master strength heals. This is the part that leads to an imbalance in healing as templates dedicated to high damage, can also have the strongest heals as well, this should not be the case in my opinion.This has lead to the'unbalancing' part of combat in 1 vs 1 settings, as it becomes a healing vs damage battle. The side that can out-heal the incoming damage will always prevail, as their is no penalty for high damage templates in obtaining those Master level healing abilities.

I do belive that their needs to ba a change to healing in the game, but not as it has been proposed or is being tested now, as I see this system leading to an imbalance as well. But no matter the change, I have been a MCM for a long time, as it was the frist profession I truly fell in love with, and will not give it up because of this change in the HAM costs for healing.

Just my thoughts

Combat Medic Archive

Thread: % of action/mind ussage for heals....are these how they should be?