Combat Medic Archive
Thread: LOG IN THIS WEEK, pretty please? (New SoP info gathering)
Happymob you haven't been a CM very long, and you don't seem to know much about poisons or pvp. If I poisoned your mind prior to the patch, you were dead in 3 ticks. 600 a tick and most people are dead in 2 ticks mate.
Disease has no tactical value right now. If you can find some way to effectively use disease in pvp, tell it to the group because I just dont see it. Please don't tell me how you can disease 15 people after hitting them all with a area poison, it just doesn't happen that way. Once you drop the bomb on a group, you need cover(you can't see your target, they can't shoot you)because you don't live long enough to give them an area disease standing in the open. In addition to that, all those targets you hit now have you targetted and as soon as you move from cover to disease, you dead because shooting is instant and diseases take a second to go off don't they - so you die spamming that disease key .ADD TO THIS that unless your potency is pretty good your going to get resisted in the first place.
It's a great idea in the forums, but in pvp it's not going to work. I think we're much better off getting our POISON INCAP back than anything else right now.
Don't succumb to this nullification of a great class. Keep raising H about it and don't let it leave the first item of the B@Tch list. Only by keeping on the correspondant to put it on the list is it going to happen.
-Brook-bria
We obviously disagree on ths, which is fine, but I will present my point-of-view.
Silverchair wrote:
Happymob you haven't been a CM very long, and you don't seem to know much about poisons or pvp. If I poisoned your mind prior to the patch, you were dead in 3 ticks. 600 a tick and most people are dead in 2 ticks mate.
Two major issues here. First, 3 ticks = 30 seconds. 30 seconds isn't that far from 40 seconds.
Second, you are talking pre-big patch #2 PvP where it wasdifficult to get mind over 2500. After the second big patch, where they introduced dancer buffs, it was possible for a TKM to get their mind to 8000 and a non-TKM to get their mind to 5000. I've personally done over 4000 mind in PvP on my pure little Bothan master CM.
You are right - most people dropped in 2 ticks (20 seconds). So under the old system you could incap masses of stupid PvPers. I'm only suggesting that you can probably still get the stupid ones because if they couldn't get you in 20 seconds, they are unlikely to get you in 40 seconds. Now the smart ones - those have a shot at you, but they wouldn't drop in 2 ticks anyway. They have the dancer buffs, are hyped upped on food, drink and spices (or even hit their mind macro *after* they get poisoned for an instant 1500 mind extra buffer) or god forbid, their a TKM with powerboosted mind to 8000 (now fixed post-patch so they can't get that high)
Disease has no tactical value right now. If you can find some way to effectively use disease in pvp, tell it to the group because I just dont see it. Please don't tell me how you can disease 15 people after hitting them all with a area poison, it just doesn't happen that way.
I'm sorry, but the fact that you can incap them with disease does give it tactical value. You are absolutely correct that if you are fighting a group solo, the initial agro from the poison is a very bad thing. You will probably have time to get the disease off (after all, it's only 3 seconds to survive, and you are buffed and in armor, right?), but you will die if you stick around. This is fundamentally no different than the old suicide bomber tactics. So you run after the poison (and the poison does very little since they can pull back and survive as well) or you suicide bomb and die (but still get to see them on the ground post-clone)
But here's the deal - in group PvP you won't die. In group PvP, you can probably get half a dozen throws off (or a couple then fade back and let your group run interference for you). So I would argue that in group PvP, diseases still have great value. Your team can't pick off everyone who is at +1 HAM (particularly those that think they can survive by retreating). So in group PvP, you do throw the area poison, you do throw the area disease, you do survive (if your group is half decent), and you do get everyone, including those that retreated (baring an enemy doctor handling them).
It's a great idea in the forums, but in pvp it's not going to work. I think we're much better off getting our POISON INCAP back than anything else right now.
Don't succumb to this nullification of a great class. Keep raising H about it and don't let it leave the first item of the B@Tch list. Only by keeping on the correspondant to put it on the list is it going to happen.
And this is where our fundamental disagreement is. I do not want master combat medics to routinely solo groups of enemies in PvP. That simply isn't good for the game. I'm suggesting that if you are a better player than your opponents you can still do this. But given players of equal "skill", but different professions, a combat medic shouldn't have the upper hand in1 on3 situations.
I'm suggesting that you can still win most 1-on-1 situations and you will still be as effective in many-on-many situations. We got nerfed in 1-on-many and frankly I think that is good for the game.
Ladies and Gentlemen....
Please allow me the following statements.
1. I intended this post to motivate all of you to get out and play the game (yes, I know, how dare I call it a game) so you can come back and report to me the following
A. How you think changes since the patch have helped or hindered CMs in certain situations.
B. Have you all try something new and come back saying 'I tried this for the first time and found it really hard because.' or 'I tried something new and was surprised about how well I liked it because...'
2. I do my best to provide the Devs and other correspondents with accurate information. I will try to report both objective and subjective information. In order to do this, I will try certain things for myself (timing ticks with a stopwatch, etc) and reporting hard concrete data given to me by others as my objective data. By subjective data, I will report the gee, this was fun; and the ' I tried this and it was such a pain I won't try it again' data. When I give out this information, I am going to try and represent EVERYBODY, not just the majority. I am reading all of these posts, including posts by people who have a post count of 8, or 800. I read posts by people who have been CMs for a week, and CMs who hit master 1 week after servers went live.
I know this sounds wierd, but in order to do this, I am even going to consider opinions by people who march to the beat of their own drummer (i.e. May do something in PvP or PvE that the majority of CMs may not consider the 'proper' way to do things). I will even go as far as to say I can differentiate the information as far as to say there are a majority of players who experience this, but for every 9 who do this, there is 1 CM that does it a different way.
3. I will report what you have to say. I will report it independantly ofstatements thatyou think it will 'break' the profession or 'cause you to quit'. I will even report statements that other posters in this forum do not agree with by reporting both sides. I will even go as far as to report things that I disagree with personally.
So why am I writing this? I am writing this to get you to spend more time playing this week and finding issues/changes and maybe less time arguing about it on the boards since I am going to listen to everybody anyways. sols PVP, solo PvE, group PvP, group PvE, poisons, diseases, mind healing, ranged heals, CDEF weapons, Flamethrowers, Master CM/Master doc, Master CM/ Master TKA...I want all the nitty gritty and all the details.
I logged in. I dueled a commando. First shot mind poison, then cut and run. Around 35s to tick to+1 mind. Now what? I pulled out my rifle ...Couldn't hit him for squat. Kind of silly as far as duelling goes.Took me a bit but i got an incap shot in. Next duel, I tried close combat with a Health poison at closer range, same dealbut around 45s or so to tick to +1. I only gotto see this happen from my prone incap position. The commando set me on fire and incapped me in 20s. So since the devs nerfed our poisons, why didn't they give CMs or Docs the ability to put out fire? How is it a commando can torch a player in 20s incap him/her and cause massive wounds and the devs decided poison was to be nerfed? A medic doesn't carry water? I can heal all kinds of states except fire... Why not?. Roleplaying wise, if CM is an offensive minded profession, then should it not be comparable to a commando? Chemical Warfare Expert ---- that's pretty COMBAT specific sounding ... +1 takes the warfare out of it ... nerf the effect or range, not the incap ability. Make area poisons the+1 nerf and the non-areascan incap.
Kyller_Relic wrote:
A method of identifying when you have a TEF. Hanging around Anchorhead I like to help out fellow rebels so I'll heal the damage. I know this will probably get me a TEF since most people are doing faction destroy missions and will have a TEF from that. However, if you heal wounds you may not be expecting the TEF as much. If there was just some flag that came up when yo uare TEF-ed it would be much nicer.
Uh.... they added that in. If you get a TEF, there is a little flag next to your name, where others states would show up.
I can confirm this...I actually wondered what the heck was going on until the other group memebers said you're 'flagged' for TEF dummy!
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 11-19-2003 03:25 PM
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 11-19-2003 03:26 PM
I've been a Master Combat Medic since a month after launch. Tonight I started surrendering my Combat Medic Boxes.
I didn't become a CM for poison & disease like the bandwagoneers. I became a CM for area heals. But 169 is a LOT of points just to toss area heals. The poison/disease were a nice bonus that let me go on the offensive. Occasionally. I never solo PvP'd, I only did it in groups. I rarely used my poisons, but they were there and they let me participate in the GCW (because stims are useless in the Eyeshot Wars).
I'm also a Master Doctor. For the skill pts I put into Master Doctor, I get revive, awesome buffs, cure poison, and cure disease. For the points I put into Combat Medic -- MORE points than needed for Doctor -- I get area-effect stims. Yay.
Pip, this isn't a statement that 'this is going to cause me to quit'. This is a statement that one of the oldest and best combat medics on Scylla HAS QUIT. It's over. You won't be seeing my posts here anymore.
But a group of 8 or so of my fellow rebels went to the imperial outpost on Talus in search of some fun. I didn't really find any myself.
First off the pvp. A guy with pretty buffed stats who didn't really do much. I threw an action disease on him, my fellow MCM threw a health disease. They both ticked once before the rest of the group killed him. pretty standard disappointing for the CM stuff.
Then since the imperial players all seemed to be on vacation we offed the stormtroopers and AT-STs that were hanging about the place. threw a variety of poisons at the troopers. some of them ticked once or twice, but they really didn't add up to much with everyone else firing just about every 2 seconds for 1/2 to 5x the damage my poison did.
Then the AT-STs. I just healed the pets. Nothing I can do to these. I can't bleed em with my pistol 4 skill, I can't poison them (directly - did they fix the indirect splash?). Pretty boring. The real shame being that would be the one opponent out there my skills would have been useful against. The only thing in the whole base that lasted long enough for the duration on my poison/disease to even come close to mattering against.
On the "nice" side, I learned that ranged stims now require Line of Sight to the target. Boy did that suck when trying to navigate that maze of the compound to get to the corner where our TK novice was getting pounded on by stormtroopers.
I also learned that with 150 battle fatigue, /mindheal causes about 90 mind wounds per use. 3 of these, and I was useless until I spent some time in the cantina watching afk entertainers. sub 200 focus doesn't cut it for a medic. for that matter neither does less than 600 willpower (quick guess my race!)
all in all, not so fun. I am happy that my mediocre poisons do 411 points of damage now. thats useful when the Drall get mad at me, but I don't really feel either balanced or improved after this patch.
Kullervobolg wrote:
I'm also a Master Doctor. For the skill pts I put into Master Doctor, I get revive, awesome buffs, cure poison, and cure disease. For the points I put into Combat Medic -- MORE points than needed for Doctor -- I get area-effect stims. Yay.
Pip, this isn't a statement that 'this is going to cause me to quit'. This is a statement that one of the oldest and best combat medics on Scylla HAS QUIT. It's over. You won't be seeing my posts here anymore.
Understandable.I too have thought about it more than once (in fact, at one time I dropped CM completely selling back 10 boxes before I worked myself back up to master). Sorry to see you go. Please don't feel like you can't post here any more. As it stands right now I don't hear a lot about the support side of Combat Medics (good or bad) and it sounds like you could offer some good input.Don't be a stranger.
pahdbacca, do you pvp your character at all? When are we going to get Combat Medic Correspondantswho actually play the combat medic? SOE is totally scr@wing this class withcorr'swho don't play(pvp) the class. They are giving us CH's with aminor in Combat Medic as a corresspondant. Its killing us.
I just spent 5 hours pvp as a combat medic/dr(which means all combat medic)and I can't db anyone. I have to rely on my groupmates to db anyone I initiate combat with. One good thing to note about this patch is that I am now more attuned to healing that I was when poisons db'd.
i just got done running with a great commando for a few hours... my poisons had longer range, so I tossed first, he came in and db'd if there wasn't too much traffic. I like covering my groupmates, but it would be nice to be able to get my own pts since i do alot of damage myself. As it stands i still don't see any fps coming my way from pvp.
I don't think SOE will take me lads, but Im putting in for Correspondant now. How bloody bad can it get when our correspondants don't pvp all the bloody time. If i was me(which I am) I'd want my correspondant to pvp the character all the time, everyway possible to be.
Brook-bria-A REAL COMBAT MEDIC WHO PVP'S
before someone posts about something where you poison a group of people, then 40 seconds later come back to disease them, then wait for them to die ------> it doesn't work. I'm sorry but I just put severalhours to your plans and it doesn't work, nor can I see a situation i pvp where it does work. I simply couldn't find a situation where I could aoe poison a group/anyone, then come back to area disease/disease anyone for a db, it is imaginative and simply doesn't work in pvp reality.
Disease still has no point in pvp. You can play all you want dueling your pals, but pvp is still too fast for disease to be worth anything. I pvp exclusively and I am still a stim despensor. It is simply too fast a combat to poison/stim/disease. I wish we had more experienced pvp combat medic's post here to explain it, they would say the same thing I am. THis class is hurting badly now...
From your arguments silverchair, I am seeing that the problem isn't the +1 cap but the distribution of faction points. You're pissed because you are not getting the points you use to get or faction points are not as easy to get as they were before the patch. If they did changed it so when anyone did a deathblow, the faction points would be distrubuted to the people who did the damage, would you be a little more open to the change? Or will you still fight to get things back the way they were?
On another note, Just because I don't PvP as much as you dosen't mean that I am not a " Real " combat medic. We all have preferences to how we play, I prefer to be a group healer for Kimo and Krayt hunts and the people I group with are very pleased with my abilities. Also the poisons I toss help to bring the critters down a bit quicker. There is no one way to play this game, and just because somebody dosn't play it the same way as you mean that they are not a good person for the position. As long as the new correspondent keeps an open mind and presents all views possible to the devs the right person is doing the job.
I am a master Combat Medic/Master Doctor. And have been for about 1 month after game release. Although gave up CM for a lil while, then went back, but that is not the point. I pvp quite a bit. But rarely by myself. If I am ever pvp by myself someone attacked me as I run around overt almost 90% of the time. I have marksman 0404, or something like that, what ever line is pistol. And in the mass PvP I have to tell you those area poisons and diseases work great. Yeah most of you are right, they are not going to db anyone in a PvP fight. It is way too quick. But what it does do is makes them, the enemy, have to rethink what they are doing. Even though they may not be getting directly attacked by the mob, they know they will be in trouble soon. My primary duty in most mass PvP is keeping my comrades in arms alive. But a little harrassment never hurt.
CM is a support class. Whether you are supporting your own combat class or your buddies. You were never meant to take out groups alone. No one should in my opinion. No matter how good of a gun marksman I am I am not going to go in and challenge 4 people to a duel. But a round of poisons and diseases in a mass PvP you give them problems. And the tide of the battle turns rapidly. And to really get the opposing side, you see someone healing or rez'ing, mind poison them right away. The more the doctor has to worry about himself the quicker his buddies fall. Trust me, I have been on the opposite side of this tactic. And I'll tell ya most doctors stand zero chance against a mob of combatants.
I like my poison but I never been on to go around suicide bombing so I don't know what that is like taking out mobs of people. So to me this +1 nerf you all are screaming about, had no effect on me. I have fun everytime I log in. I have people asking me to group with them almost everytime I log. Because there is no doubt in my mind that I am no real threat in PvE or PvP. But put me with 1 good combatant and I'll put us against almost any group of six who is not expectiing us. I honestly believe in the CM abilities. Especially when it comes to assisting me as a doctor. But a toe to toe 1 on 1 type of Class, rarely. I won't say never, I have challenged many a Tkm and BH masters and have won. It is about stradegy and not trying to be a toe to toe slugger. And using that CDEF pistol you have.