Combat Medic Archive
Thread: LOG IN THIS WEEK, pretty please? (New SoP info gathering)
On top of that most professions can drop you prior to the poison actually having any effect. I direct your attention to this post in the Commando forum:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=commando&message.id=28664
It details several professions and how quickly they can deal out 1000+ damage. The intent was not to showcase the speeds, but never the less it illustrates the point.
When the classes primary attack method can't even effect the target before the user gets killed tells me that Combat Medics as a profession lack the ability to withstand combat. Now those with excellent armor and Master Doctor buffs will probably last enough that the poison does some damage.
For a Combat Medic to win in PvP you have to have another profession with good combat abilities. Not really a problem considering that Master Combat Medic leaves plenty of Skill Points for that side profession, but thats off topic I think we are looking into Combat Medic's native abilities in PvP.
So far this is related to one on one PvP, group PvP is a little better. Combat Medics are quite valueable to groups in PvP combat. If the stims have sufficient range you can stay out of range of the opponents while healing your allies. If you come within range expect to be singled out and taken down quickly. Most players have caught on that its far easier to take someone down when they aren't getting healed. Group PvP we are a lot more useful, but only in a non-combat role.
Wishlist:
The ability to effect the time between ticks of a poison. If we could reduce that time they would be a lot more useful in PvP combat. This takes away from the Effectiveness experimentation so the damage would be reduced, thus balancing the poisons.
A method of identifying when you have a TEF. Hanging around Anchorhead I like to help out fellow rebels so I'll heal the damage. I know this will probably get me a TEF since most people are doing faction destroy missions and will have a TEF from that. However, if you heal wounds you may not be expecting the TEF as much. If there was just some flag that came up when yo uare TEF-ed it would be much nicer.
If Combat Medics are natively supposed to be good in combat, then nother method of doing damage besides the Poisons is needed. Poisons are slow to kill targets and generally are only effective with kiting tactics.
The ability to heal (but not poison) from on a mount. This is mainly for group PvP combat. Since healers are singled out during these fights if would be nice to use the mounts greater speed to dash into range throw a Stim and dash back out of range.
Just my thoughts on the subject take it for what you will. Combat Medics can be good in PvP, provided taht they also advance through a combat profession as well.
A method of identifying when you have a TEF. Hanging around Anchorhead I like to help out fellow rebels so I'll heal the damage. I know this will probably get me a TEF since most people are doing faction destroy missions and will have a TEF from that. However, if you heal wounds you may not be expecting the TEF as much. If there was just some flag that came up when yo uare TEF-ed it would be much nicer.
Uh.... they added that in. If you get a TEF, there is a little flag next to your name, where others states would show up.
Kyller_Relic wrote:Uh.... they added that in. If you get a TEF, there is a little flag next to your name, where others states would show up.
Hmm, never saw that. I admit it has been a while since I've done any faction missions or anything, I'll have to check that out.
Vodo_bass wrote:
The poisons don't act fast enough to counter the Novice Medic with doctor crafted Stim B's most players have. Poisons do roughly 300 points of damage each tick (depending on the resources used), most doctors can get Stim B's with a base heal of 300.
A few counters to this - use mind poisons (unhealable), use diseases (slower acting, but unhealable in combat), stack an area on top of a single target (not great against groups, but as someone else pointed out, you can do over 1000 damage every 8 seconds this way).
Also, forcing the enemy group to Stim-B themselves every 8 seconds is a few more seconds where they aren't shooting at you. Even if it takes them out of combat for 2 seconds (I need to test how many attacks someone does miss when a novicestim-Bs themself), you have degraded their effective damage output by 25%. That isn't shabby in group combat. Of course if they have a CM on their side, the CM will be (or at least should be) dropping an area stim-C onceevery 8 seconds.
So far this is related to one on one PvP, group PvP is a little better. Combat Medics are quite valueable to groups in PvP combat. If the stims have sufficient range you can stay out of range of the opponents while healing your allies. If you come within range expect to be singled out and taken down quickly. Most players have caught on that its far easier to take someone down when they aren't getting healed. Group PvP we are a lot more useful, but only in a non-combat role.
Agree with the first bit, but not the last. Yes, we are *much* more effective in groups. But it is also in groups where the poison and diseases can matter most. Poisons will distract the opponent (by either keeping the doctor busy or by forcing them to Stim themselves). Diseases will keep an opponent out of combat once you do deathblow them (or if it doesn't keep them out, they come back degraded).
A method of identifying when you have a TEF.
We have this now. I picked up TEFs mutliple times while doing mind heals in the Anchorhead cantina (helping out the entertainers and medic levelers) and a TEF flag appeared in my state display. Surprised me when I saw it.
Combat Medics can be good in PvP, provided taht they also advance through a combat profession as well.
I still disagree with this premise. I think with the addition of functional area diseases and with the +1 poison nerf, our PvP abilities are much more nuanced than before. It used to be all about the area poisons, but now we have more subtle ways of changing the course of a battle. Now these all take time to work, so in 1-on-1 PvP we definitely are at a major disadvantage (besides those cases where you just surprise someone). But in group combat, we are still aforce multiplier.
Happymob wrote:
Vodo_bass wrote:The poisons don't act fast enough to counter the Novice Medic with doctor crafted Stim B's most players have. Poisons do roughly 300 points of damage each tick (depending on the resources used), most doctors can get Stim B's with a base heal of 300.
A few counters to this - use mind poisons (unhealable), use diseases (slower acting, but unhealable in combat), stack an area on top of a single target (not great against groups, but as someone else pointed out, you can do over 1000 damage every 8 seconds this way).
Also, forcing the enemy group to Stim-B themselves every 8 seconds is a few more seconds where they aren't shooting at you. Even if it takes them out of combat for 2 seconds (I need to test how many attacks someone does miss when a novice stim-Bs themself), you have degraded their effective damage output by 25%. That isn't shabby in group combat. Of course if they have a CM on their side, the CM will be (or at least should be) dropping an area stim-C once every 8 seconds.
Mind poisons aren't unhealable, CM's can do it, but I do agree with the concept, its **edit** hard to heal (as with any HAM wounds) in combat. With wounds does the wounds collect in the already damaged (white) part of the bar, or will it take away some of the "healthy" (colored) part of the bar? From what I've seen it appears to come frome the damaged part of the bar so it doesn't really add damage. Now I've never sat down to verify this, generally speaking when I disease something I'm also throwing in as much blaster fire as I can so its tough to distinguish the damage source.
As for the Stim B removing a few attacks, you are correct saying that it will remove some of their attacks. I've done a little ttesting on this (to determine if Carbines or Pistols were better as a weapon for me) and the way it seems to work is each queued combat action (weapon shot, weeapon special, heal, etc) has its own time delay associated with it. Weapons are based off of the weapon speed, faster the weapon the less the time delay. So if a Stim use takes 6 seconds (pretty sure thats teh novice time) and a pistol is rated at 1.5 speed (roughly 1 and a half seconds between shots) then using the stim took enough time for 4 pistol shots.
What I was saying in that part of the post was that it takes 6 seconds for the poison/disease to hit. If you check that commando thread I cited quite a few combat classes can kill you in that amount of time, so will they really need to use the stim b? A ll of our native CM weapons take 6 seconds to effect the target, most PvP does not last that long so the effect is lost. Stacking 2 poisons and a disease takes 9 seconds (3 second minimum between throws) so before you can get taht 1000 damage from it they have had 9 seconds to hit you first.
Also this is just my opinion based on the PvP I've done, possibly my tactics ned work.
Yep. Disease is too slow to matter and poison is now useless in PvP (and was always useless in PvE).
Area-effect heals are nice, but not worth 169 skill points.
This profession is dead.
Vodo_Baas wrote:
Mind poisons aren't unhealable, CM's can do it, but I do agree with the concept, its **edit** hard to heal (as with any HAM wounds) in combat. With wounds does the wounds collect in the already damaged (white) part of the bar, or will it take away some of the "healthy" (colored) part of the bar? From what I've seen it appears to come frome the damaged part of the bar so it doesn't really add damage. Now I've never sat down to verify this, generally speaking when I disease something I'm also throwing in as much blaster fire as I can so its tough to distinguish the damage source.
Pre 2nd big patch (with the last one being the 3rd big patch by my count), wounds definitely just hit the top part of the bar (and wound healing also just hit the top part which is why you were left with white damage after a wound heal).
After the 2nd big patch, wound healing also moved the healthy part (no more white) and adding wounds also decreased the healthy part (white part stayed constant). This is also why buffs wearing off creating such problems (instant incaps when the white stayed constant, the healthy part went negative).
Now, I think this still works that way - when I take a wound, I effectively take damage as well. Which is why I can incapacitate myself when doing a /healMind (when you have enough mind to do the heal, but the damage + new wounds exceeds your current healthy mind). It would also explain why people are reporting that poison + disease will still incapacitate the target (the poison goes to +1, but the disease tick will cause additional damage driving them negative). I suspect they will fix this if it is working this way, but for now, I believe that a disease will effectively decrease the healthy part of the bar at the same rate in increases tha black part (with the white part staying constant).
Regardless, this is definitely worth a test tonight. I *think* that the fastest way to take someone down right now is with single target poison + area poison + single target disease + area disease. I will let you know what the results are.
I had to yell to my group - KILL THIS GUY WILL YOU!!! I hit him with a poison and he just kept running after me. He had no health left( health single C - 330effective) and he just kept running after me. I was in Theed and stayed out of sight running in and out of medcenter until someone could drop him for me.
I'm combat medic and doctor and I've no weapons skills. If I had weapons skills I would have to marry my weapons damage to my poisons to get an incap. That my colleagues is not acceptable because different player types have different amounts to the different hams. Before the patch, if someone had low blue ham, I could use mind poison. Now if I want to db someone with a low blue bar i need a weapon that does blue damage, really leaves pvp out of the question for me now.
I can no longer pvp solo at all. I must be in a group to pvp as I cannot db anyone. I can't effectively wear armor and heal/toss poison and disease. Thus anyone with their one hp left who comes at me is going to kill me and laugh about whatever illness I gave them.
LOG ON THIS WEEK, SHOW EVERYONE HOW GREAT CM IS ! ! !
- I appreciate your rally cry, but it doesn't do anything to my spirits about this totally broken class. Disease takes MINUTES to do damage. If you aren't accustomed to pvp in this game. Let me tell you that 10 seconds is an eternity. No pvp combat lasts a minute. You will be long dead before your poison takes effect.
The only way a combat medic is going to pvp solo is if he has the weapons skills to back up his poisons. That leave all the cm/doc's out of it.
I was the first combat medic on the bria server, among the first combat medic doctors. I started out combat medic/master marksman. I realized that in pvp I didn't have time to toss poisons - heal myself/group mates- then engage targets with rifle/pistol/carbine. All the different timers just make it impossible to do all of them at the same time effectively.
You just can't fight a combat medic pvp very well, we are so limited by the bloody timers and NOW no incaps from poisons. Toss into that the horrible crafting bug right now and tell me why I should log on my combat medic this week?
This is the most class altering patch in this game to date. None of the other classes have been told they can no longer pvp solo. It's simply rediculous that I cannot kill anyone anymore.
I have 4 other accounts that I have used for slots and to run back and forth resources from harvesters, survey etc for hours at a time to keep my main character in great shape to make things. I don't need the slots of the other accounts anymore to support my combat medic/doctor with resources since poison/disease is useless, and the crafting bug right now makes medical crafting impossible anyway.
What is the point to the combat medic now? A stim despensor with longer range than a doctor? An incapped player towtruck? OH wait, I know the purpose of the CM now. It's so that you can spend endless hours gathering resources, then making poisons so that someone else can come get the faction point reward for taking 1hp away from someone you just did 2500 damage to.
Rage, Rage againstthe dying of the light....
Brook- bria...
Silverchair wrote:
The only way a combat medic is going to pvp solo is if he has the weapons skills to back up his poisons. That leave all the cm/doc's out of it.
Not quite yet... stacking a disease on top of the poison will definitely incapacitate them (after 40 seconds). I just confirmed this and am writing up a full report of my tests right now in another thread.
SOE may evetually fix this (I suspect they will), but for now, you can still mass incapacitate groups (and annoy them with a few wounds to boot).
40 seconds? That's an awefull long time in pvp mate. I can't wait to hear what you've discovered though, sounds interesting.
-Brook - bria
Silverchair wrote:
40 seconds? That's an awefull long time in pvp mate. I can't wait to hear what you've discovered though, sounds interesting.
-Brook - bria
Understood, but even under the old system it would take 1 (against the silly PvPer who migrated their mind down) or 2 (against a normalunprepared PvPer) to 4to 8 (against a prepared PvPer with buffs) opponent to incap them. That is 20 to 80 seconds right there (and the 80 second one will still take 80 seconds...). Point is, is wasn't instant incap under the old rules unless you were PvPing an idiot (which many admittedly are).
Anyway, we've had other report the diesase+poison solution before (yes, I did see your post Niza :smileywink
, but people seem to be missing that. They are using their old tactics in combat, when with the quicker poison throws, they can get an area disease and an area poison in the same time it used to take them to throw the single area poison (because of the silly animation pause). At the same time I here people bemoaning the +1 nerf, I see the same people declare that diseases are worthless. Well, they aren't worthless if you want your opponent to be on the ground when you come out of the cloning center (or back from your little burstrun vacation or whatever it is you do to survive).
I still think our effectiveness in solo PvP has been significantly reduced (after all, it is now 40 seconds and if either the poison or disease gets resisted, then they are relatively safe (will still go to +1 without the disease, but no incap), but it's not the end of the world quite yet.