Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Analysis of Combat Medic Mind Area Poison PVP Superiority
That may be true, but the answer is being implemented. They can only code the stuff in and get it tested so fast. Taking time out to impliment other changes now just doesn't make much sense when they really just need to focus on the revamp they are already working on.
In other words, discussing this issue makes no difference to anything other than to get something off your chest. It would just be a waste of time to band-aid something in right now on this when the fix is in the works. So I'm not sure what more you can expect from pushing the issue other than to blow off some steam.
All this whining about CMs is total crap, and here's why:
1. AOE is not that big a deal unless your group stands around close together like a bunch of idiots. Spread the hell out or die like the dog you are. I have to laugh everytime I see base defenders bunched up IN THE BASE, as if that will improve their chances of defending it.
2. CMs are affected by poison and disease just like everyone else, in fact more so, because a CM with no mind can't do crap. If you don't have CMs in your group, that's your own dumb fault. Same goes for doctors, who, amazingly, can cure disease and poison, just like that.
3. 1 mind point is not so bad, because hitting that last point is very difficult for everyone but Riflemen, and if you get into the sites of a Master Rifleman, poison or no poison, you might as well kiss your ass goodbye anyway.
4. If it's mind disease you're worried about, get an entertainer in your group. They're in the game for a reason, and no, it's not to AFK in the stupid cantina. A Master can take care of 800 mind wounds in no time.
5. If you're concered about 1 on 1, show me ONE other Master combat profession that a CM can beat one one one. Doesn't exist.
With all that said, I offer some ideas other than changing CM's themselves:
1. Add the ability to put poison or disease resist layers in armor-- they increase your chance of resisting, at the cost of significantadditional HAM penalty (it sucks wearing chemical gear). Your resistance is equal to that of the lowest piece you have.
2. Allow Master Doctors to pre-apply cure poison or cure diseaseand have it last for a minute orso.
3. Allow master doctors to make weaker, single usepoison and cure disease packs that can be used by Novice Medics (like Stim Bs). These can mitigate the damage per tick, butcan only totally eliminate through multiple uses. Single use means a little more cumbersome to use than multi-use packs, to keep them from totally destroying a CM's usefulness.
4. Increase the chance of resisting poison and disease, making your resistance directly correlate with the regeneration secondary stat for the corresponding poison type. (e.g. the higher your Willpower is, the better your chances of resisting, with a cap at 50%).
5. To hell with it -- make mind damage curable by stims just like the other stats. It's stupid to distinguish them like this anyway -- why is a bullet to the head any less curable than a bullet to the heart? Wounds must still be healed by entertainers.
Some neat ideas, Riklii, but I have to disagree with number 5. Although it would shut people up...PVP would jsut last too long! If Mind can be cured, what is the limiter in how many Stims you can apply? If you heal your mind with the rest of your body, you can effectively heal forever. I could see a duel last for 2 or 3 hours, blowing through hundreds of stims. That's not a valid solution, in my opinion.
I really love number 1 though...One would think in the technologically advanced world of SW, someone would come up with a gas mask.
1. The argument that mind poisons don't incap and therefore are not powerful is null. After 2 ticks an average player's mind is at 1, preventing them from doing any specials, and making them vulnerable to even a single random pool shoot kill them. Once someone has a mind poison on them they are more or less out of the fight. Unable to use any special attacks is just as bad as being dead in a fight. And apparently, poison and disease together do incap.
2. Combat Medics are a support profession. Read the description of the Master Combat Medic box if you need. The word combat means they are a combat support class, not a pure combat class. Combat medics get tons of other things besides their poisons. Area stims, ranged stims, and the awesome ability to heal mind. Do to the fact that they are a support profession means that their max possible damage output should be no where near as great as that of an eliet combat profession such as Rifleman or Pistoleer.
3. "Just kill the combat medic first" does not work. Combat medics have just as much range as anyone else, and thus has an equal chance to get an aoe poison off. Even if they die after they get the AOE off, it still does its damage to the entire enemy team.
4. The potential damage dealing capacity of a Combat Medic is beyond reasonable. For being in range for one second a master CM is able to do 500 or so per tick to a large number of combatants at once. Radius of AOE poison is large enough to easily get 10 people at once.
5. The speed at which the poison ticks makes it near impossible for even the best of doctors to keep everyone in the fight. A Master Doctor, even if curing a poison in one use, still lacks the ability to keep the 8 other poisoned team mates from taking 1-2 clicks of the poison and therefore being removed from the fight.
BuB64882 wrote:
Some neat ideas, Riklii, but I have to disagree with number 5. Although it would shut people up...PVP would jsut last too long! If Mind can be cured, what is the limiter in how many Stims you can apply? If you heal your mind with the rest of your body, you can effectively heal forever. I could see a duel last for 2 or 3 hours, blowing through hundreds of stims. That's not a valid solution, in my opinion.
I really love number 1 though...One would think in the technologically advanced world of SW, someone would come up with a gas mask.
You have a good point -- but you're not entirely correct. Even without the stimming, people will just continually clone or get rezzed and rejoin the battle. In any big battle, disease and other wounding methods, are the real equalizers that wear the enemy down over time. It is very hard for docs to keep up with disease by wound healing. I just don't think there should be anything special about the mind pool if regular damage (like head shots) apply to it.
On the other hand, I would like to see the damage system revamped so that:
Weapons all primarily damage health, with a little damage to action and mind (getting shot at is tiring, both mentally AND physically). Some types of attacks would do more mind or action damage than others (such asHead shot, which, under this alternate system, would do massive health and quite a bit of mind damage; Suppression Fire attacks primarily "damage" action, pinning you down in essence).Poison or Damage someone's Health to 0, and they get incapped with the standard incap timer(or alternative, they die), but can also be healed by stims.
Action and Mind, on the other handwould be pools that are used to perform abilities...some are very Action intensive (Full Auto Firing, Tumbling, Melee Specials), whereas some are very Mind intensive (applying meds, aiming and other aiming intensive specials). Action should be used and regenerate quickly. Poison someone's Action below 100, they get incapped (incap ends when points regen to 100+)and are susceptible to Death Blows, or maybe just get KD'd and can't move or perform specials that require Action. Mind should be used and regenerate slowly. Poison someone's mind to 0, and they cannot perform specials that require any mind, and maybe are subjected to states, like dizzy, blind, etc. Armor would not protect against action and mind damage, and in fact would tend to make them worse because the amount of damage you take to these pools, or use by perfroming specials would both depend on your secondary stats, as they do now.
Think of the real world comparisons: Health Poison = cyanide (i.e it kills you); Action Poison = knockout gas like that stuff the Russians tried to use against the terrorists in the movie theater; Mind Poison = Tear Gas, Pepper Spray -- they don't really "harm" you or make you sleepy, but make it impossible to do anything that requires concentration.
A Master Doctor, even if curing a poison in one use, still lacks the ability to keep the 8 other poisoned team mates from taking 1-2 clicks of the poison and therefore being removed from the fight.
I'm sorry, but if a CM hits 8 of you with one hit, you're tactics suck. Period.
Last raid I was on, we had two CMs, and they had 2 CMs (at least one of whom resorted primarily to teffing us, so we were an easy mark). We owned them becausethey all bunched together in their base. We stayed spread out, so our ONE doctor was able to cure the one, two, or even 3 of us that got hit by their CMsbefore the secondtick.
./agree Rikilii
Well ... whiners go home , don' t read on cuz ur limited mental abilities are no good for serious discussion anyway.
CMs are overpowered ... yeah ... sure. I guess CM must be the most overpowered Profession ... uhm ... err ... wait ... all day long i see TKA , BH and Commando guys runnin around ... but only a few CMs.Yeah so sure... since we are so overpowered everybody DOESN'T become a CM 
Gush the irony the irony.
Well i exactly know why u hate CMs ... u being the roxxor whiner kiddies (go back to counterstrike plz).We collect resources , most of them difficult to find ... btw no tollium reactive gas on my server for over a month already. Ok where was I? Ah yes , the resources ...
Yeah we collect those resources , which also costs us a lot of time and money. Lot of work doing that. Ever been to Yavin all alone lookin for a nice place where tomine yavin fiberplast? Yeah right ... yavin is the most peaceful planet around,well err ... yavin is only peaceful if ya have kung fu jackie chan moves.
Most of the time resources are crappy, too. Stats are not very impressive but .. ah well.
Anyway everytime a CM throws that big bad poison at ya , there is a lot more work and money behind it than u whinOrs will ever be able to grasp. So we deserve to have some pain in the ass abilities. Our entire char is completely uselss besides supporting a team. Heh i tried to poison krayts and kimos just for the sake of fun. But even the average mob is too strong for me to hurt him with my best mind area c. So i am all alone. A CM is a looser if alone. U cannot make missions , u cannot fight back if someone is after ya. But still u want to take away poison.
All the arguments are there. Some peeps have said "Hell what about fire ...? Fire even kills ya , our poisons just bring ya down to 1!".
Ya know what ... funny thing is this:
Rifleman:"Cms are soo overpowered. This is BS. Cm is BS they should be nerfed!"
Cm:"Why?"
Riflema:"Cuz if i am poisoned i am no longer able to use Dbshot to kill someone over a range of 100 yards... that is soo unfair ..."
Did u get the joke? Ah no , sorry. Go on. I agree. We are overpowered from your point of view. I am outta here.
Cheers
(btw CM master for loong time already)