Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Non-CM thoughts on nerf cries
Malonesa, your comment deserves to be answered...you said "One question..
So someone that has to spend 4,5-6 months waiting on good extremely rare spawning adv. ingredients for their componenets shouldn't make kick ass poisons?
How long did you have to wait before you got to use fairly common excellent ranged/melee weapons."
You're comparing the wrong things here...b/c weapon creation and use are integrated in CM, but they aren't in the other combat professions. Is there any difference between a CM who buys her poisons from another CM and a pistoleer buying a gun? And what about the WS/ pistoleer who makes her own gun? You better bet that WS waited months for good spawns to make excellent guns. WS also need special ingredients...in fact, most crafting professions do.
So although you can grind up to novice rifleman today, pick up a t21, you can't grind up to master WS today and expect to produce a good t21 easily. There'll probably be some ingreident that haven't spawned or are spawning in poor quality. I don't know how many crafting professions you've done Malonesa, but that's the way they all seem to work....its the challenge of crafting. So while CM is harder to do than being pure combat, that's b/c it is NOT pure combat..its part crafter, healer and fighter.
Hotrodg wrote:
Another thought on the throwing range. I think this is only a problem due to the fact it compounds the real problems. If those were fixed I believe the extended range is just fine. It sorta counter-balances the fact you guys can't KD/Dizzy/Stun/Blind etc..
i too have to commemorate you on your post...comsidering the stuff that gets posted i'm surprised you have a decent hold on the profession without actually playing it.
and as for the KD/Dizzy/stun/blind ect.....well let's just say i'm for this one, and i'l almost rather have dizzy and blind ect. (maybe even kd) packs in place of a longer range(cap at 64m like everything else). i'd see it as the PvP verson of the scout/ranger traps used on animals.
i can just see it now- a CM "flashbangs" a group and lets the commandos go to work
grozzer the lone wolf
Make AE poison/disease effect EVERYONE in the area... not just the enemy. No one has gasmasks in this game, so therefore, if a chemical weapon was thrown amongst a group of people every tom, **edit**, and harry will be poisoned. If a CM throws a poison at someone who is 10m away, and the poison radius is 15m... guess what?... the CM just poisoned himself along with his adversary.
cactircuddly wrote:
Make AE poison/disease effect EVERYONE in the area... not just the enemy. No one has gasmasks in this game, so therefore, if a chemical weapon was thrown amongst a group of people every tom, **edit**, and harry will be poisoned. If a CM throws a poison at someone who is 10m away, and the poison radius is 15m... guess what?... the CM just poisoned himself along with his adversary.
You realize the potential for grief with this? I can already think of about 10 different scenarios where that could be used to greif players. Try actually playing a CM and you will see how ridiculous that would be.
ScroteWizard wrote:
DID ANYONE ANSWER MY QUESTION? BESIDES BEING A DOC HOW DO YOU DEFEND AGAINST A CM POISON/DISEASE COMBO? I DO NOT THINK THAT IT IS LEGITIMATE TO ASK A PLAYER TO PICK UP A WHOLE DIFFERENT PROFESSION IN ORDER TO DEFEND AGAINST JUST ONE.
Why not? When we complain about lack of defenses in the CM profession you nerfherders tell us to pick up a profession that has defenses....
Are any of you CMs up for it? Cuz I know that PvP isn't always about big groups. Does every PvPer have to pick up doc? Cuz I sure as hell know that area disease/poison in base assault situationsare not only going to tick every 10 seconds for a whole lot of damage to the mind, it's also gonna be reapplied. If the Docs had area disease/poison cures with the SAME AOE RANGE then that would help those base situations. However, they do not. They cannot keep up with the spread of disease/poison.
Doctors have no business getting one of our abilities as har as AE healing goes. If anyone deserves an AE cure it is clearly the CM. They alone are supposed to be the best combat healer yet they can only heal 5 out of 13 types of combat damage.
So where does that leave a person when thinking about how to defend? Let's see, cure yourself every time it's applied... I don't want to pick up doctor just to deal with one class... I don't think I should have to.
Then die since you refuse to conform. Get mind buffs to increase the rate of your regen. Take off that armor you hold dear in order to keep your Willpower high enough to offset the poison tic. Just because you refuse to make a sacrifice in order to solve the problem, doesn't mean we deserve a nerf.
Bottom line: Explain it to me. Explain how I don't have to pick up doctor in order to deal with your only two combat "specials". Believe me, I wouldn't want you to lose all those abilities you worked so hard for AFK while someone rolled in front of you.
Not all of us tumbled our way through our profession. Any combat profession can be mastered in 5 days of casual play. I know because I mastered TKA 5 days. Then once I surrendered TKA I went on to rifleman and that took a whole 5 days. Whether it be 5 hours or 5 day difference it doesn't really matter since XP in this game is a joke. ANYONE can macro their way to Master in ANY class. Hell Jedi are doing it.
I posted these suggestions before and maybe if you read through them you would see not all CMs crave ultra dominant power in our class...
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=29480
Message Edited by Gnuut on 04-06-2004 09:19 AM
"You're comparing the wrong things here...b/c weapon creation and use are integrated in CM, but they aren't in the other combat professions. Is there any difference between a CM who buys her poisons from another CM and a pistoleer buying a gun?compare it more to a rocket launcher with fewer uses. w/o loot a CM pack will have no more than aprox 20-25 usesAnd what about the WS/ pistoleer who makes her own gun? You better bet that WS waited months for good spawns to make excellent guns. WS also need special ingredients...in fact, most crafting professions do. i'm willing to bet that for those "special ingredients", even specific ones, the WS didn't have to wait 2-3 months before they spawned at all, much less 2 or 3 to make one compoonent."
Til we get a WS in here to discuss, let's not speculate on that. You could make *much weaker* poisons without waiting. And if your server is set up like mine, you usually *don't need* to wait, b/c someone else either made the poison to sell, or is selling the resources. Buffs for example, require just about as many parts and odd ingredients as advanced poisons and are about as limited in number of uses...yet they seem to be everywhere. Once someone gets the items required to make decent buffs, they mass produce, and the same is true of poisons ....
"So although you can grind up to novice rifleman today, pick up a t21, you can't grind up to master WS today and expect to produce a good t21 easily. There'll probably be some ingreident that haven't spawned or are spawning in poor quality. I don't know how many crafting professions you've done Malonesa, but that's the way they all seem to work....its the challenge of crafting. So while CM is harder to do than being pure combat, that's b/c it is NOT pure combat..its part crafter, healer and fighter.good point, but you still overlook uses. there is no "repair" option that you can use with a repair pack on CM meds. if the uses are gone, they're gone. get a good FT or pistol or t21, have it sliced and invest in some good repair tools and that weapon will last you a long time. if you actually compare the resources that it takes to make a poison C vs a Weapon, they end up being fairly close to the same, but the poison C will have a much shorter lifetime."
True, but what does that really mean?
That still doesn't convince me that poisons ought to do more damage than other weapons. After all, the other half of beinga combat class isearning the boxes of experience for skills....by far BH is the hardest profession to do b/c of the investigation tree.Shouldn't that also count toward some reward in power output? If you base everything off of how hard/exspensive the weapons are to create, then you ignore that aspect of it. Its much harder to get a kraytfwg than a regular flamethrower...but I would guess the flamethrower would still do more damage. And as I said above...CM skill trees are filled with more healing than fighting skills. That's just the way it is.
Padtai wrote:
Til we get a WS in here to discuss, let's not speculate on that. You could make *much weaker* poisons without waiting. And if your server is set up like mine, you usually *don't need* to wait, b/c someone else either made the poison to sell, or is selling the resources. Buffs for example, require just about as many parts and odd ingredients as advanced poisons and are about as limited in number of uses...yet they seem to be everywhere. Once someone gets the items required to make decent buffs, they mass produce, and the same is true of poisons ....
No that is not true. Buffpacks require components that are fairly common. The only two rare resources needed to make high quality buffs are Liquid Petro4 and Dolovite Iron. There is always some form of Tat Fiberplast, Domesticated Oats, Herbivore Meat, Reactive Gas, Lokian Wheat, HQ Organic and HQ Inorganic. They may not always have the best quality but those resources are ALWAYS AVAILABLE.
Compare that to CM Meds that require Class 1 Radio, Titanium Aluminum, Eleton Reactive Gas, Tolium Reactive Gas, and Liquid 2 Petro as our rare resources. That is just for the offensive meds. Don't forget we still use the some of the same resources Doctors need in order to craft our healing stims.
If you base everything off of how hard/exspensive the weapons are to create, then you ignore that aspect of it. Its much harder to get a kraytfwg than a regular flamethrower...but I would guess the flamethrower would still do more damage.
Your example is flawed. Krayt enhancements are basically a percentage based enhancement. At base damage an FT will always have a higher damage than a pistol.
And as I said above...CM skill trees are filled with more healing than fighting skills. That's just the way it is.
Once again you are wrong. The Support tree determines the level of med use we have for combat medicine. The Distance tree determines our range and damage bonus for offensive medicine. The range bonus has very little impact on the distance used for Ranged Stims. The Speed tree determines how fast we can toss poison, disease or healing stims. It also grants the ability to heal mind. The Crafting Tree has a 9:1 ratio of Offensive Medicine schematics to Defensive Medicine schematics. As you can see the CM profession is designed to focus ondamage through DOTs rather than ranged healing.
Message Edited by Gnuut on 04-06-2004 01:11 PM
I posted this elsewhere, my thoughts havent changed.
Issues that people have with the CM:
You get poisoned/diseased and there's no way to cure it unless your a Doc or have a Doc around.
Range.
Area poison or disease.
Does not have the 75% reduction in PvP.
'Uber' poisons/diseases that tick for 1k+ dmg.
I dont understand how a CM does waaay too much dmg when normalto average poisons tick at 10 seconds for usually 500 points of dmg. You mean to tell me that every other combat class cannot do 500 points of dmg within 10 seconds?
So it seems to be not that the CM are overpowered, just that the way they are powered is hard to deal with. Keep in mind a MCM spends 169 skill points to master his profession.Yet if you've ever watched a MCM try and solo PvE, it's actually quite funny. They throw their poison and wait for 10 seconds for any damage to be done. With disease, it's a full 40 seconds. That's quite a long time for the actual damage to start happening. And when it does unless they've picked up pistols or rifles or something else, they are running around taking damage or letting their pet tank. Even then they still have to finish the creature off.
CM have no real way of making money, yet the resources for poisons/diseases are rare or expensive.
All I'm saying is, I think there is more to this whole arguement other than just crying nerf. Stop and think about someone who is actually one. It's not all that easy to PvE and you get no respect because people are pissed off at you because you can area damage. I mean look at the flamethrower. That sucks but nobody cries nerf on that. Sure it's because you cannot light someone on fire from 64m out, or maybe it's because you cannot light 20 people on fire. I don't know, maybe you can. All I know is that you don't hear much about that. Mostly I suppose because it's a weapon and not a whole profession.
I think the issue lies NOT with nerfing the CM's, but as there have been other threads posted, adding content to the game to balance the CM. Such as, gas masks, vaccines, etc.
Personally I'd like to see a vaccine line added to CM's. It would give us some form of making money and people would love to have these. Seeing how we are the one's that are playing around with these bioweapons as it were, we _should_ be able to make antibodies that either a Doctor or someone with say at least Novice Medic or Master Medic (whatever it may bet) have the ability to inject into themselves before combat to have a healthy dose of antibodies to fight off diseases/poisons. There should be a downside to this however like some sort of HAM cost or stomach filling (you usually don't feel well after you get shots.. well some people don't)
As you can see, this can turn into a meaningful discussion and there are points to be made. I think the thing is is that many a CM (and non-CM's for that matter) are getting *very* tired of seeing the nerf CM threads, that's all. Feel free to post your ideas, thought's about all of this. My main point was just to point out that there is no need to get all bent or flame or call names, etc. Just address the issue as it is. Layout what the problems are and then address them.
-Arianne-