Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM Correspondent- Kavedawg supported and still supports the stop at +1 stat PvP NERF on poison
Put a sock in it fer chrissakes. You're refusing to see all aspects of the argument just so you can keep bellyaching.
Just quit the profession and piss off.
Jesus.
sheesh nothing's uglier than a bid damned wookie fight, 19/31 posts are by wookies, maybe thats the real issue...
/hidesbehindarock
Long' Sahpoone - MCM
I cant see how any of youi cannot see what a truly awful nerf this is. It isn't reasonable for my primary attack to stop at 1 pt. As others have already said will you take every one elses flame dot and make them stop at one. You would see a vast amount of screaming on all of the boards. I very rarely post oon these boards but I do read them regularly. I feel that this nerf has to be stopped. If not CH still has some appeal to me.
Arien Traffiel Kettermore
Almost MCM
First, the lack of respect that Galaxies is showing to VOLUNTEERS is sick. You don't seem like an unintellgent guy (or girl) but you really screwed the pooch by bringing down whatever anger you have down on a VOLUNTEER.
Second, Galaxies, you're making this sound like Kavedawg said "screw the rest of you this is my opinion" when in fact this is an issue that divides a lot of us. I for one am IN FAVOUR of the change and don't view it as a NERF but instead as an act to balance off a class and to ensure we're getting XP for our kills. Nothing at this point ticks me off more than area poisoning some MOBs, fighting through them, only to watch a few of them die without me getting XP...This adds up. I also dislike the Kamakazi style of PvP where I can 'Burst Poison'. This forces me to let my posion do the work and to finish the job mano-a-mano like every other class. We're a cheap class that nobody likes dealing with. I detest bounty hunters, but now I pop on a Compsite helm they're dealable. We're not. At least with this change it forces us to get stuck in during Solo PvP.
People also crying this is the end of PvP forget that not all classes should be PvPing solo. We're killer in a group and that's how it should be with a COMBAT SUPPORT CLASS.
Now that being said, I think Galaxies, you've pretty much lost all credibility due to the IDIOTIC act of attacking somebody based on how they feel. Kavedawg has been a fantastic and hard working correspondant and Zarlor stepped in to ensure that we at least had a voice. These people balance their own personal feelings with those of their constituents and do a fine job.
If you want your opinion respected, then grab a clue and respect others.
In my opinion it's a huge nerf, one we'll never get lifted again even if it totaly sucks. What we get from it is irrelevant imo as those things are all bugs.
Bugs should be repaired not evaded by changeing working stuff os that the bug doesn't arise.
I don't understand why it should be a good thing that we can't incap our enemies with our primary weapon, which is totaly dependant on sporadicaly spawning ressources.
I for one would like to see this idea laied to rest.
However i don't think that bashing Zarlor or Kave is in anyway helpful or appropriate.
AllGalaxies wrote:
Sorry buddy, but go back 3 weeks and look, Zarlor was actively engaged in pushing this nerf. He asked me to go back and look and I did, his post consisted of exclusively pushing this nerf.
My posts did? For those wondering, herea re the relavent threads:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8800
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=combat_medic&message.id=8859
I don't see any responses by you there, but at any rate here are a few quotes of mine asking about this idea:
"But what are the downsides? What am I missing with that idea?
What about other ideas?"
In response to some one bringing up a possible problem:
"That might be a problem. But if it is, does it outweigh the benefits of dropping folks to 0 and letting DoTs tick normally?
Hard to really go through this one without see it in action.
That was just one idea, though, are there any others you guys can come up wtih that might help the situation?"
"I'd really like to see this one in action. BNecause I think that conclusion really is the question of the hour on this. Is there some greater inherent advantage to incap with poison (as oppsoed to any other means), or is it a disadvantage not to incap? Would a more powerful poison (getting the person down on their damage level faster) be more useful in a situation where incap does not occur, but you can be assured, in such a case, that even if they tried to stim they would virutally be back down to only 1 damage in no time, making them an easy kill?
I keep thinking we'd need to see it in action. It's also why I wonder if we wouldn't need something more if a poison does nto incap, like some kind of state or the othersuggestions above."
" So I think the timer delay (which makes the poison look like it lasts forever, which in a way it does, but it doesn'twork it's effectsfor all that time) might be the answer they tried to use there."
In all cases the only thing I was pushing for was to get some other responses from folks like you who could point out the negatives and offer some other options. If you read any other intent into those posts then you were SERIOUSLY mistaken. Please look them over again and try to read them with the intent and spirit in which they were offered, which was as a possible solution to a greif and possible kludge fix for things like the loot problem, but also as a request for other views on the matter.
As for being angry with you, of course I am. Anyone that screams to have the sole PvP attack ability of my attack class nerfed will recieve my anger.
Rist off, I don;t see that hardly anyone here is "screaming" for anything, except for a few folks who are very adamantly opposed to this as a solution. Second, you are assuming that we must, perforce, see this possible solution as a nerf and are, therefore, supporting this as a nerf. I sure don't see it as a nerf and have been waiting for the convincing evidence that it is a nerf. So far it appears that it may require a change in tactics with what I think may be a minor increase in risk, but fixes a few other problems and might be THE thing which keeps the real nerf bat of reduced effictivness, potency and/or range away from us.
#1 The "grief" incapping --- This started because the devs put a 5 minute grace period after the original incap. Lower or remove that grace period and the 3 incaps and your dead will solve this problem instantly.
Unfortunately letting poison kill has a few problems. For one I'm pretty sure the Devs would simply consider that too strong of a thing for poisons to do. For two it reduces the effect of poison by, effectively, lower its duration if it could have gone for longer. And for three, if your poison kills, how do you get a DB? I'm not saying it's a bad solution to the problem, just that it also has problems with it, as far as I can see. Not that I would be adamantly opposed to that solution, mind you.
#2 The no loot priveledge --- Treat poison dmg as dmg done by the person poisoning (after all it is our attack). Tally up who has done the most dmg (like it is already done) and give that person the rights to loot.
THat is certainly something I would ahve expeted to have been the case. THe problem there, though, is that you seem to be offering that only one person will have corpse right for loot and harvesting (and we know the problems brough up with only one person being able to harvest). This limits corpse looting, though, only to your biggest damage dealers, so that will almost always be us or BHs or Commandos. But I do agree that is a seperate problem. It just so happens that in this case the no-incap thing just happens to fix it, but I thihk that is actually a secondary effect, a bonus or bit of lagniappe if you will and not the primary reason for considering this change. I think your first issue above is the real reason.
Common, these are 2 simple solutions that don't involve a nerf to anyone. There are plenty of alternative views out there. It's obvious that the Vast Majority of the CMs hate this nerf. A few CMs, such as your selves support it, and a ton of other classes would love to see us nerfed. My point is this is the Combat Medic boards. Just because a few CMs, our temp correspondent and our new correspondent personally agree with a nerf, they pushed it and got it implemented.
I can't seem to get this through to you at all. I have not said that I am all FOR this change (I refuse to call it a nerf, just because some folks see it that way). I have said that I do not think this change would be as bad as some have made it out to be, but I have stated and will continue to state (even though you seem to want to refuse to read this line from me) that I continue to ride the fence on tis issue. I LEAN towards finding it acceptable, but that does not mean I fully support or am pushing for it. I AM trying to offer opposing viewpoints on some of the concerns raised as to why some folks consider this a downright nerf. I don;t see it that way and have been offering resons why I think it is not a nerf. However I am NOT saying I support this.
Do I need to "screm" that so you can hear it again? I AM *NOT* SAYING I SUPPORT THIS CHANGE!
Surely you can acnowledge by reading the board that the VAST majority of the CMs do not support this.
Actaully, no. I cannot make that acknowledgement. The reason is that although at times the "popular" opinion on the forums may be a majority view, there are far too many times where a vocal minority is mistaken as being the majority view. (A recent polling on the Doc board proved this point to a very large degree.) As such I personally could not endorse either a position for or against this change as the majority view, let alone the VAST majority viewpoint. We recently have a VAST majority on the forums state the some form of Surveying for the medical professions would be a bad thing, yet an even vaster majority (over 70%, or more than a 2/3rds Majority) consider getting that kind of skill for the medical porofessions to be one of their Top 10 priorities to get fixed. So unless a cleare polling is done, I couldn't agree that the majority stands on one side or the other of this issue.
I want to see some response to this giant issue that you, Zarlor and Kavedawg have gotten going and a reasonable attempt by my (and the rest of the majority that hate this change) correspondent has started. I would like to see them fighting for the CM instead of the agenda that they think is better logic (after all we are all idiots in yoru mind if we don't agree with you right?)
I sure didn't say that. I did say I thought you should try to calm down a bit and present some reasoned arguments, wihtout this extraneous stuff quesiong the integrity of others, though, which you have yet to prove that any of us have actually pushed for something that did not present all sides of the argument. You seem to be making some implications that suggest much more than the reality on the issue here, but I'm sure not standing around calling you an idiot for disagreeing with me. If you make that mistake it is your own imagination thinking any of us are saying that, and I'm sorry to see it.
We've been asking that you present reasoned arguments instead. That's right ASKING you for your arguments in the matter. How is that calling you an idiot? And why do you have to feel like we are calling you an idiot? It's just not true. Can't we get into a debate here about the issue without getting our feelings hurt over the matter?
Don't make a simple band-aid(the poison change)to a problem that the devs caused be the biggest Attack Nerf to any class ever created. How will that make you feel 2 months from now when you remember back in the day when a combat medic could actually incap someone with her/his advanced skills?
We didn't make this change, although you seem dead set on applying it to us. I offered a suggested fix in those other threads. I took all of the other suggestions from those threads to our Dev because he was ASKING for input on this specific griefing issue. I gave him the links to the thread and offered relavent posts, counters and other suggestions that were made there. He decided to go with the simpler solution of testing out the no-incap thing. I never told him to do it. Kave never told him to do it. It's what he and the SOE team decided to look into.
Again, this thing isn't even live. It's on freaking Test! And things on Test change all the time before they go live (IF they go live!). That server is called Test Center for a reason, so folks can test those change and see if it really is as bad as youare making it out to be. And it MIGHT be really bad because, as I ahve admitted, I have not been able to test it out. Logically, however, I'm not seeing it as being such a bid thing right now.
My suggestion to you is to back off of with the bringing up of names and extraneous issues (like you belief that the Corres for this profession have been malfesant in their jobs, take THAT issue to a different thread if you absolutely must) and stick to offereing arguments and counter-arguments about WHY this change should not make it to live. At least then you'll be giving Kave something more to give to the Dev as the counter to this fix.It's not US you have to convince, it's the Devs.
Get some skill, learn your char. If you use the 'I loose to a BH in a duel' as an argument, you're making yourself look ridiculous. First off, becoming master BH is harder to achieve as CM, so they should have an advantage in a 1 vs 1 situation. Second you can solo every class in the whole world out there besides a Doc/CM (unless you are one yourself). How? Buff up, get some decent armor, get some food, throw in some muon gold and a BH cant do jack anymore. I suggest you learn to play your class before you cry foul. To me you're just one of the l33t Bandwagoner CMs that got owned once by a skilled CM and then decided to play the class too.
Do I think this is a nerf? Yes I do. Do I think we needed a nerf? Yes I do.Do I think this is the right way to nerf us? No, IMO a PvE dmg increase and from the new PvE damage derived PvP dmg should have been appropriate (I imagine something along the line of 25% less dmg than we do now). This 1pt tick-stop is just a messed up solution for the no-loot issue.
And while I think the nerf is wrong, I still trust Kavedawg, because he is doing a great job and from previous online games, I know how the Devs only pick certain information delivered to them by the Correspondents. Now instead of trying to crucify Kave and Zarlor, get a grip and stay on the object, instead of shooting the messengers. This isnt helping your cause at all, you're just trying to raise this board against Kave.
Kave you're doing a great job, dont let a newb drag you down!
Please let it go guys.
I haven't read hislast few posts anyways. (you know who)
Folks have a right to speak,
I have a right to ignore.
Inhocmark!!
Well said! Here here!!
I don't care one bit about Allgalaxies argument because he/she lacks any ability to present their point with out slamming someone that gives their time and effeort freely to help all CMs.
You want to make a point and discuss a change in the game do it, but leave the personal bias against others in your sock drawer. We don't want or need any of it here.
Kave and Zarlor have done a great job of representing CM issues, I certainly don't agree with every opinion and idea they have but i would NEVER slam them when they are trying their best to help me.
Present your points with evidence and logic to support them then we can have a discussion about the merit (or lack there of) of your ideas.
Albaka
Valcyn
Kavedawg wrote:
I just have one last comment on this thread
If I were truly "Pushing" for this idea, or if I were trying to get only what I think is best put into this game, then why did I post about this change in the first place? There are no patch notes and there is only one other CM on test that can make poisons, so if I really wanted to continue my alledged campain to nerf CM's in my image, I could have just said nothing. I could have played dumb to the change and waited untill it was pushed to live where I would reply to the screams " whoops, guess I missed that, so sorry but we don't PvP much on test" but the fact that I brought this to the boards when nothing else was said about it, and I was able to see that it would be considered a major change for the profession and the information should be passed on to the CM community ASAP
I have no hidden agenda, I took this position only to get some communication happening with the devs and also get the major things that were borked with this profession. The loot/faction problem was the intended target with this fix but it ended up being more trouble than what is is worth. I have passed on the less flamey posts in other threads to the devs.
Don't sweat it Kavedawg, You've always handled yourself well in here, outlining points and debates and being forth-coming with changes allowing us to debate them. With all the hours you spend on Test you're also in the best position to give us feedback on this and I would hope it comes back as honest as you can make it.
If you took a straw poll, you'd see most of us are quite enthused with the job you do.