Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Mind Posion/Diease... ouch
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Vorgus
Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:00 pm
#27
I'm a Master Doc now, and will be a short term Master CM shortly...
I disagree, same as I disagree with both BH and Commando Flame DOT's/Wounds being "nerfed". These disease/fire effects are one of the very few ways in this game, to actually remove someone from PvP for a short time, allowing a side to actually "win" a battle.
I'll give some in game examples of why this is true. Pick your favorite fortified base owned by whatever large guild you wish, and you'll find that thier base is probably entirely surrounded by medium houses, with only one way in to get to it. This city also has both a shuttle and clone center nearby. Now whoever is defending this base, immediately gains a massive advantage in the fact that the moment it comes under attack, they can shuttle in, clone/insure, and it's off to defend against whoever is attacking that day. I suspect most if not all of you, have either participated in what I'm describing, from the viewpoint of either the attackers, or defenders of such a base...
Now consider a moment, that by whatever means, Flame DOT's, and Disease are NERFED... Exactly how do you ever get rid of the defenders? You kill one, and he's back attacking you in 30 seconds, maybe slightly worse for wear, but certainly not significantly hurt. Same thing goes for the attackers, with just a longer delay before they return (since they have to travel to get back, assuming they are banned from the local clone center), but all you end up with is a running battle for the entire time the base vulnerable, since you can't effectively get rid of anyone. I've seen this happen more than once, even just on city raids (I live on Naboo), you kill them, they are cloned in Theed, and are back shooting at you in less than a minute. It rapidly turns tactical PvP into something a lot closer to a Quake Deathmatch than anything that is more similar to tactical PvP like CounterStrike is.
I may be the only one that feels this way, but I wish a lot more classes had high wound weaponry than there are now. To counter the fact that this would lead to more people complaining about "15 minutes of my life wasted" I'd have no problems with them drastically increasing the rate of wound healing for entertainers, to the sort of rate a Master Doc can heal other wounds. All I'm after is a situation where you MUST leave the battle, and go to a camp or where ever and actually get healed before returning, thus ending the Deathmatch PvP we have now. This would also mean haveing Medics/Doc/CM's and Entertainers available to heal would mean something to a battle. When was the last battle you were at, where anyone even cared in the slightest if you had any Entertainers available, until long after the battle was over and you felt like getting rid of the BF you gained during it?
Vorgus
JackeluS
Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:41 am
#28
Being a master doc and soon to be master cm, serums that anyone and everyone could use IMO is not right. Killing two professions at once is a sure bad idea. Also from ym experience you do not need a GROUP of docs, just one does fine with some cure disease and poison packs takes very little time to heal a complete group. Also if you dont have a doc in your group then that is bad planning on your part, a variety of professions is needed in raids as there are different situations to deal with.
TheGrimmReaper
Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:39 pm
#29
Maybe Entertainers should have power heal modes or something to quickly heal large wounds but at a large cost to the action pools. Also the attacking party in a raid should have much more #s then the defending. If you dont have numbers and are attacking then you are asking to lose in a way. Hey thats how russia did it in WW2!
Strontium5
Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:04 pm
#30
I can't believe that i have to agree with a rebel on this....serums would destroy the CM profession....if you take that away from CM....then what is the advantage that a CM has overan average master medic...they would be practically the same.
SoontierFel
Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:46 am
#33
Jackelus wrote:
Being a master doc and soon to be master cm, serums that anyone and everyone could use IMO is not right.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything.. lol ok so maybe I am. Why does everyone capitalize IMO? It sounds kindof stupid to me. So lol means laugh out loud... then LOL means really big laugh out loud. So IMO just sounds like some old man saying INNN MYYYY OPINIONNNN, and puffing out his chest really big. Is there a reason why everyone always capitalized IMO and IMHO? Or, is it just to sound slow and old?
Veldcath
Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:51 pm
#34
I see lots of people claiming "If you try to defend against a CM and you don't have a doctor with you, it's your problem. Poor planning on your part..."
I don't know about you, but in my guild, the last three base defenses I've been in on, the doctors (we only have a couple) have been off-planet in hunting parties or OFFLINE. And Rebels (and Imperials, I'm sure) just don't happen to be kind enough to notify us in advance when they're going to attack. Which means there's NO ability to plan to have a doctor. By the time a doc gets to the scene, the battle is over and the attack was either painfully repelled or, the more likely case, everyone died several times defending that base.
To whomever was talking about the defenders getting to clone on site and be right back on your butts maybe a little worse for wear... You are the ones who are coming with a completely buffed, prepared party. Our defenses are hastily thrown together from a pool of people who happen to be in town at the time. Often, that consists of people like me... a Master ID/CH in training with very little combat skills. And with no buffs because A: we weren't exactly EXPECTING the attack and B: the one doctor in town is AFK with a dance macro going at the time.
Sure, you we get the advantage of cloning and throwing wave upon wave of corpses at you... but you get the advantage of coming to a fight /prepared/ (buffed to the gills and turned into combat monsters). I'd say one pretty well negates the other.
So, now. THAT out of the way, someone else said you can't incap as a CM, you need pistol or something else to do it. Look at some of the other gripes here. It's possible. And it's really pissing people off because of the triple-incap bug. So there you go... you can do it.
I don't think the damage CMs do is so far out of whack, but think about this: Riflemen and CMs can damage mind directly. Any medical profession can do SOME healing of Health and Action in the field. I'm a novice medic only and I can at least stim someone once to get them back on their feet if they're not DB'd. Only CMs can HEAL mind (at a great cost to themselves, I might point out) and only Doctors can cure disease. And the only people who can heal mind WOUNDS are entertainers. In specific locations (cantina, theater, camp, player building). I'm not saying CMs and Riflemen should be nerfed at all. But I think it's easy to see why people get upset when most of the time it's damage to that one bar that 'gets them' because it's the hardest bar to heal and also the bar that takes the LONGEST to heal, by quite a large factor.
CMs are singled out by the nerf-criers not because they're doing too much damage (though in some cases that might be true) but because there's the perception that they ALWAYS attack the one vulnerable, hard-to-buff, hard to heal stat. AND you can't defend against it (yes, I know - there are poison-resist foods - but you still see a message saying you've been poisoned, even when you resist it as per someone's testing posted on this very forum.)
As for me, any master elite who can deal damage is going to drop me like a stone. I'm not a combatant. I accept that. But don't go telling me it's my bad planning for not having a doctor with me... when I only know three of them to begin with and I can't hardly ask them to do nothing but sit around in town rather than going out adventuring just in CASE there's a rebel attack. That's a piss-poor argument to try to start. Unless maybe you think half of every factioned town should be doctors...
I don't know about you, but in my guild, the last three base defenses I've been in on, the doctors (we only have a couple) have been off-planet in hunting parties or OFFLINE. And Rebels (and Imperials, I'm sure) just don't happen to be kind enough to notify us in advance when they're going to attack. Which means there's NO ability to plan to have a doctor. By the time a doc gets to the scene, the battle is over and the attack was either painfully repelled or, the more likely case, everyone died several times defending that base.
To whomever was talking about the defenders getting to clone on site and be right back on your butts maybe a little worse for wear... You are the ones who are coming with a completely buffed, prepared party. Our defenses are hastily thrown together from a pool of people who happen to be in town at the time. Often, that consists of people like me... a Master ID/CH in training with very little combat skills. And with no buffs because A: we weren't exactly EXPECTING the attack and B: the one doctor in town is AFK with a dance macro going at the time.
Sure, you we get the advantage of cloning and throwing wave upon wave of corpses at you... but you get the advantage of coming to a fight /prepared/ (buffed to the gills and turned into combat monsters). I'd say one pretty well negates the other.
So, now. THAT out of the way, someone else said you can't incap as a CM, you need pistol or something else to do it. Look at some of the other gripes here. It's possible. And it's really pissing people off because of the triple-incap bug. So there you go... you can do it.
I don't think the damage CMs do is so far out of whack, but think about this: Riflemen and CMs can damage mind directly. Any medical profession can do SOME healing of Health and Action in the field. I'm a novice medic only and I can at least stim someone once to get them back on their feet if they're not DB'd. Only CMs can HEAL mind (at a great cost to themselves, I might point out) and only Doctors can cure disease. And the only people who can heal mind WOUNDS are entertainers. In specific locations (cantina, theater, camp, player building). I'm not saying CMs and Riflemen should be nerfed at all. But I think it's easy to see why people get upset when most of the time it's damage to that one bar that 'gets them' because it's the hardest bar to heal and also the bar that takes the LONGEST to heal, by quite a large factor.
CMs are singled out by the nerf-criers not because they're doing too much damage (though in some cases that might be true) but because there's the perception that they ALWAYS attack the one vulnerable, hard-to-buff, hard to heal stat. AND you can't defend against it (yes, I know - there are poison-resist foods - but you still see a message saying you've been poisoned, even when you resist it as per someone's testing posted on this very forum.)
As for me, any master elite who can deal damage is going to drop me like a stone. I'm not a combatant. I accept that. But don't go telling me it's my bad planning for not having a doctor with me... when I only know three of them to begin with and I can't hardly ask them to do nothing but sit around in town rather than going out adventuring just in CASE there's a rebel attack. That's a piss-poor argument to try to start. Unless maybe you think half of every factioned town should be doctors...
Veldcath
Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:53 pm
#35
Also... if your mind is gone, you can't very well heal anything, so if people are directly attacking your mind with poison/disease and you're burning mind curing poison and disease... you just end up killing yourself FASTER.
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