Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Imperial Crackdown

JWing
Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:46 am
#14

Once again Kav, your right on top of things. This is good for Smugglers. But I totally disagree with the fact that overt Imps can use / abuse illegal items. Its like police officers being able to use drugs, getting caught, then getting saluted? Makes little sense to me.


But at least were getting some new content. Should I be happy with that?





SYBOOTH...A Zombie stole my PANTS !!
________________Jorras Thri v lvl 31 Imperial Medic

Virrago - (9/21/2006)
[Stating that the subpar smuggling system would be pushed to LIVE]
"...and to clarify.... It would require another publish (in other words not chapter 3)"
Smugglers History - Written by the DEV'sv Imperial Holo-ReportvMerchant ~ Talus -2310 36 -2164
electricnomad
Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:50 am
#15

Two quick points:




Kav wrote:





electricnomad wrote:

The Devs could very easily give us a player-mission smuggling economy by dropping the Imperial bonuses to scans and adding a few of the following items to the contraband list:


  • high-end resources (advanced medical components, radioactives, anything from Dathomir, etc)

  • high-end weaponry, like Scatter Pistols or T-21s

  • mounts and vehicles on adventure planets

  • etc

All the Devs have to do it make the entire player base feel the lure of contraband, make it tough for them to move it themselves, and then make Smugglers the only people who can get the gear through without serious penalties or risk.





kinda a diffrent discussion really but, the same can be said for the Merchant profession Electro. It is difficult to sell your wares if you are not a merchant.


Does this mean we have alot of merchants? no, it means nearly all crafters dabble in merchant.


I think the economy should be more segmented than it is, and the Devs haven't stressed that aspect of the game. Crafters should probably seek out Merchants to distribute for them, unless they honestly enjoy it. I really wish there were dedicated distributors whose role in the galaxy was to move goods produced by others. I think that's really what the Devs hoped for when they made Merchant a proefssion. As it is (and you know how this goes), crafters expect and feel obligated to solo the entire line, from resource harvesting to selling. It leads to a high burnout rate for the "best" crafters, at least from what I've seen.



this is not enough to me, even if the contraband list was increased. this is not Smuggling, its smuggling. If you make everything illegal you do not increase the desire for smuggling, cause no one will desire the product. Smuggling Has to mean bringing something they cannot get through normal means that they all Want. If it is all illegal to own, not as many folks will want it.


also It would be inexcusable to make a professions weapon (t21, scatter) contraband. that would be as unfair to them as this whole thing with teh imp officers is to us.


Yeah, I wrote that quickly and didn'tinclued a key part that I usually put in there- certain planets should restrict certain weapons. I've always liked the idea of Lok outlawing T-21s, under order of Nym, or the Fed Dub outlawing Scatter Pistols on Rori. Little things like that that make planets unique without would make the game more interesting. And having complications on one planet out often wouldn't make these restrictions totally abusive.



Solo is making a great argument for it based on skill points incaylin's thread. i think that is the one we can all drive home on the devs. They are sensitive to it if we parallel the concept to what they are going through on combat droids.







"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

Kav
Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:00 pm
#16

was brought up in another thread and it jarred my dusty Navy memories...bringing a real world exsample to this whole thing since so many folks are throwing the "real life generals wouldn't be scanned" card.


I was in the USN, whenever you hit port a handful of guys are handed little armbands that say SP, shore patrol. In effect you are a cop keeping an eye on the navy folks in a port.


You are easy enough to sopt without the armband, your in uniform and the folks not on duty are typically in civilian clothes. The armband is to cover your rank insgnia.


When enforcing the law rank is not an issue.


that's in the real world millitary which of course is not a corrupt oppresive goverment strongarm, well not supposed to be anyway


Just thoguht i would throw that out there.






Kav::Master Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."
Solo4114
Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:03 pm
#17

A couple of thoughts here.



Kav, I gather you've revised your position on your original post some, so I'll only loosely address that issue. I agree that, in terms of the GCW focus of the crackdown, the penalties are right on the money. Rebels should feel the heat, neutrals should start saying "Whoa...so much for going rebel just to say I'm a rebel.." and Imps should be left alone as far as "Are you a rebel?" goes. In terms of scanning purely for faction, I think that the scan beating is perfect. Imps shouldn't have to worry about faction scans. They're Imps! Neutrals shouldn't worry either unless they're carrying Rebel equipment (which, I don't think they can unless they're rebels). Rebels should fear the scans, and we can help them evade them. In THAT sense, this patch works just fine.


I also don't think that the player base would just give up sliced weapons and drugs yet, though consumption and usage may be down. It'd depend on how often the feel the heat, and whether they felt the burn was worth it. In that sense, I don't think much would change for us. Our smuggling business might go up a bit, our slice and spice business might go down a bit, but on the whole, I imagine not much would change in terms of raw credits changing hands. People are unlikely to throw out their existing sliced equipment, and since that stuff's not grandfathered in, we might make up business lost from slice/spice with smuggling gigs.


As far as the Imperial immunity to contraband scans goes, though, I have to say that if one Imperial is able to smuggle better than even a novice smuggler, IE: beat the scans better, it will be one too many. Smugglers pay for their abilities with their finite pool of skill points. If they want to, go ahead and give average players a 5% chance of beating the scans, Imperials a 10% chance, and novice smugglers a 15% chance, and all three of those would be NON cumulative (IE: if you're an Imperial novice, you rely on your smuggler skills, not your Imperial faction). That would be a fair faction perk because it wouldn't be intruding on Smuggler-specific skills. And for the record, if an Imp DOES get caught, no imp should go scot-free, though the fines or penalties should be light. A small expenditure of faction points to emulate "pulling rank" or paying a relatively low fine would be perfectly acceptable.


But skill points are sacred and they preserve the balance between the professions and among players. Any time that an ability, or eventhe OUTCOME of an ability, which is unique to a particular profession is available as a faction perk, it throws the whole system out of balance. The Creature Handlers found this out the hard way and Imperials are still complaining about how their AT-STs have been nerfed (which is a whole other issue that I won't get into here). If Rebels were granted the ability to, upon acheivinga particular rank or declaring, fight unarmed as well as or better than even a brawler with unarmed 1, it would screw up the skill point balance. 250 is it, man. That's all you get. You get no other profession abilities but what you spend your 250 on. If you start doling out profession abilities as faction perks, it screws up the balance between the professions and between players. You say in your first post that this is a perk and not a skill, butI say the EFFECT is the same and that's what counts. If you have a skill that is unique to a profession, or by other means, achieve the same profession-unique effect of that skill (IE: brawlers and TKAs fighting unarmed, weaponsmiths making any weapon above a CDEF, etc.) without requiring people to spend skill points, you upset the tenuous balance of the professions.


That's not to say that faction points shouldn't lead to good rewards. Far from it. I think the faction goods have been woefully handled, largely due to the "Crafters make the best gear" philosophy that the devs have. I understand why they chose that, but I think that faction points have to be valuable for SOMETHING. That, however, is a separate issue. What faction points cannot be used for is to obtain professional abilities without investing the skill points. Faction points, as I've said elsewhere, are functionally inexhaustable. You can always get more and can accumulate more than your "cap" in terms of net worth. IE: you can own a base, three troopers, AND be at your max storage for faction points. That's fundamentally different from skill points which have a hard and fast 250 point cap and there ain't no way to get around it.


I agree that this is clearly NOT the smuggler revamp, nor should it even come close. We need a far more robust system than this if we're to truly Smuggle, but this is the embryonic stage of that system and we need to stand our ground and defend our turf. We don't need to be the ONLY people who have even a 1% chance to beat a scan, but we should be, even at novice level, better than anyone else who hasn't invested the skill points.


Now, on a side note, I want to make a point about a trend that I see on pretty much every professional board I participate in. Novices are part of the profession too, and we all tend to forget about them (aside from giving them tips on how to get PAST novice). Many's the post I've seen on here suggesting some interesting new ability, weapon cert, or tweak to an existing ability, only to then say "And it should go in the master box." I'm all for beefing up the master box. God knows it's pretty skimpy as-is. But we can't forget the novices or the folks who are climbing the trees as we speak. And I'll freely admit, I'm NOT a master smuggler. I've still gota boatload of pistol XP to grind, so this IS coming from some self-interest. But, I also am not a novice (well, with the exception of Underworld, but I have enough Pistol XP stored that I could get UW 1 and I think 2 at this point). Remember, novices sunk their skill points in too, and in fact, novice is, for ALL the elite/hybrid professions, the single most expensive box to get skill-point-wise (6 points). Those skill points can't be made worthless by giving away even novice level unique abilities as faction perks. I'm about three boxes past novice in weaponsmith, between Firearms 1 and Crafting Techniques 1 and 2. But I'll tell you now, if someone said "Hey! Let's let rebel officers make WUKs or D18s!", I'd shout 'em down the same way I'm shouting down this proposed change. Any expenditure of skill points is worth fighting to protect, from novices up through masters.


Now, as to DogWelder's points, you're right, it's not every Imperial, but it is every Imperial who's willing to go overt. If memory serves, ANY overt, regardless of rank, is given a free pass. So, while it's not EVERY imperial, it is definitely any Imperial willing to go overt. Regardless, even if it's Imperial Colonels only, even if they institute the new General or Surface Marshall ranks which require a gajillion FP to acheive, it still wouldn't be right to give away profession-specific skills without the expenditure of skill points. Put simply, if you want to smuggle, become a smuggler. If you want to shoot pistols the best, become a pistoleer. If you want to make the best weapons, become a weaponsmith. Etc., etc., etc. But do NOT try to gain or give away those abilities without requiring the player to spend skill points.
aaaaaaarrrgh
Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:52 pm
#18

Are poisons and diseases going to be contraband?

Houdani
Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:35 pm
#19

I understand contraband to include:



  • Sliced Armor

  • Sliced Weapons

  • Spice

  • Rebel Faction Equipment

Poison/disease packs are not on the list, and it's unlikely they ever will be put on the list.


H.






0000001000000
0000011100000
0011001001100..(||||||)..................Scarlett Letter......M.Doc / M.Pike.......BRIA
0110001000110..(||||||)..................Ellya Tsunami........Perpetual Newbie....TC
1111011101111..(|||||||||||||||||)....Houdani O'Bria......Team: Buff-Bot......SANDBOX (alpha)
0111111111110
0011111111100
Rabbid_Toaster
Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:53 pm
#20

Nope, the Dev's never said poisons and diseaces were illegal.



====================================
Krossin, a member of the Naritus server cluster.
A hologrinder in the making!
Page 2 of 2