CUEmu - Thread Posts

WrightDawg

Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:56 pm

Can someone tell me how this is going to work? If I understand correctly, Imperials will now be able to search Rebels for "contraband" such as spices, sliced weapons and armor etc. How will this work and will Covert Rebels also be searched or just declared Rebs? What happens if caught with this stuff, will they take my 1 million dollar set of composite sliced armor from me? Help!

Mustardlord

Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:59 pm

#2

no they will NEVER take anything from you, I wont go into detail here but for you

if your overt rebel they will just attack you and if your covert they will make you overt

OneHung

Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:04 pm

#3

Gawd! Take alook in the GCW forum. Something around 30 topics on it.

RETIRED

Stalag

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:20 am

#4

there is even a post on the in testing forum with alot of what you need to know. It actually sounds like it is going to be great.

Nihm Rats, Master Tailor and Art Dealer, Lowca

Vendor in Mos Boonta at -235, 3579 near Mos Entha
-or-
Vendor in Nihm's Art Museum -691, -3564 near Coronet

Kav

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:38 am

#5

Heya folks, been out of commision for a week now due to real life. looks like i have missed some pretty pointed disscussions. I have read a good handful around the boards trying to catch back up.

Thought i would voice my opinion about the last week, so don't think abotu this as a long post, just a makeup one

What is the goal of the Imperial Crackdown?

Increase Imperial player count. (bottom line biggest goal)

Bring the “feel” of the game into timeline. (Empire Strikes Back, arguably the pinnacle of Imperial strength)

Institute the precedence of some items being Illegal. (Spice, Slice, Rebel gear)

To make the game more Fun.

Test Center initial publish:

Overt reb: no change

Covert reb: in effect the game gains npc covert scanners

Imp: suffers loss of rank or faction. In affect losing from 8-50 missions worth of faction for most imps.

Neutrals: no effect

Now:

Overt Reb: Still no change

Covert reb: Covert faction scanners

Imperial “low rank” loss of cash or faction

Imperial “high rank” no effect.

Neutrals: cash fine

Now for a moment Ignore anything to do with smugglers.

Which of these two designs meet the initial goals? I think there is no argument the latter does. Some folks are upset that even as neutrals they have to “suffer” the wrath of the Empire. But frankly it fits Star Wars, and the fact that this is Star Wars is the only reason I am here and not back in Camelot.

Now lets bring in Smugglers.

Now where do Smugglers fall in this whole reb/imp thing? Well we have the unfortunate precedent of 25% of our skill set being based on the GCW. So many smugglers have joined the GCW and hold high rank. I am of the personal belief that this is a major design flaw; and my comments will be based on this point of view.

A Smuggler should not be a general in the army, he/she should be a bystander to the conflict itself.

A beer salesman does not care which team is winning the game, and changes his pitch depending on which side of the stadium he is working at the time.

Nowhere in the opening publish of the Imperial Crackdown was it ever alluded to be part of the Smuggler re-dev. Nor was Smugglers initially even given any ability to avoid contraband scans. It was heavily assumed by the community, but it Did Not Exist.

So initially all the Crackdown had for us is making two of our trees illegal, as they should have been all along. Some folks do not like it, but this is the one thing that was a PLUS to smugglers from the very beginning. Without Spice and Slice becoming illegal we are just another crafter class that happens to get a gun as well.

Then low and behold logic comes to bear and Smugglers are given the ability to avoid these scans, and even assist others in that process, most excellent.

So all said this “crackdown” increases:

The overall combat strength of the Smuggler, due to us being able to use “hot” gear all the time.

The desirability of a Smuggler for any combat group. PvP or PvE.

The skill set of a Smuggler in general.

The potential for true smuggling to be developed, now that the precedence of illegal items has been set.

I do not view the Smugglers ability to avoid scans as the be all end all of “Smuggling.”
It is Smuggling in it’s lowest form, like a Ranger using a Basic camp from his novice scout tree.

I do not view any implementation of this ability that we can Sell as a service. Unless you think any other member of a group would have the right to charge for his skill set. Should you pay riflemen by the shot, or medics by the heal? No that is what they bring to group.

The only way i see for this to bring us profit is by delivering bulk orders to a customers house, so they can just carry out what they need each day and not risk being busted trafficing.

So now the downsides:

Spice and Slice demand will lessen? No I do not think so, lets look at our customer base.

Our nmber one customers are GCW participants. Especially with spice. If your already in a fight, then the crackdowns only affect is more Imp NPC’s to deal with. Imperials and combatant rebels will continue to buy spice and slice at the same rate they do now. Shopkeepers and regular PvE folks are not the ones buying 10 crates of spice or getting 3 suits of armor sliced.

Neutrals are still the majority of players, and lets face it, a small fine is not that big a deal. They will continue to buy.

The only customers we stand to lose are the Covert Rebs that think they shouldn’t have to fight, that did not read anything the recruiter or manual told them. This is a small pool of customers.

Imperials of High rank getting a pass.
Well I am not happy with it myself. I think there are better ways and frankly I was not overwhelmed by the 500fp OR rank penalty. Though compared to the rebel penalties it was a bad idea.

I would say covert Imperials should not have a pass at all, Overts should have a pass on any sliced faction gear, and a decreased chance of scan based on rank, but never a pass. After all the Empire is always on the lookout for traitors.

I have the following logic that I am going to bring to bear in the dev thread:

Faction pets were a slight to the CH profession. In less time than it took to get Novice CH you could have a ranged, healing, CL25 pet. To balance this aspect of faction perks overriding profession skill sets faction pets are now GCW use only.

Following this same logic the only time Imperials should get a bonus to avoid scans is if Overt, therefore actively part of the GCW. Covert Imps of any rank should be succeptable to scans and penalties. High Ranking Overt Imps should get a Bonus to avoid scans based on their rank but never exceeding the ability of a Underworld 3 Smuggler.

I am going to polish that a bit and post it up to the Dev thread.

I will voice my opinion of course, but it feels a bit late in the process for these arguments, code is laid, twice now.

This thing really really really needed to be “In Concept” and hashed out there. Well it never made it IC or InDev, straight to In Test cause it was the last big thing on the table before the new dev system went in.

Combined with the GREIVIOUS error of the devs to think it would be FUN to make it all a mystery and a surprise. That bred all the hysteria. 90% of the screams and yells were from people who had NO IDEA what was going on.Thoes uneducated screams are what the "new crackdown" was based on. That is the biggest failure of this whole crackdown.

Bria-TC was pretty much a failure since it was only up about 18hours…

While I do not like Imps getting a pass, this is not a hill that the profession will die on. The true re-dev process is where we have to go to guns, we have to insure that True Smuggling will be something fun and profitable.

Walking past a cop on the corner with a bag of drugs in your pocket is not smuggling.

Moving a Winnebago full of contraband from Montana to Miami and selling it for a million bucks is smuggling.

The player economy cannot support true smuggling, it will more than likely be a sub-game for us like BH’s and their marks.

This is a perk, not a class defining function. We should voice our displeasure with having our Namesake diluted by imperial high rank, voice it clearly and intellegently.

But I do not see this as the end of days regardless of the outcome.

Kav::~~Master~~ Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."

FYAD

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:42 am

#6

While I don't agree with 100% of your reasoning, I have to say that was very well thought out. That was an excellent contribution to the debate.

electricnomad

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:53 am

#7

What happened to this Kav?

Kav wrote:

I feel pretty strongly against giveing Imperials a pass in any form.

if they give one inch in making things illegal. then they will not be illegal.

if things are not illegal, then there is no need for smugglers.

you either take the benifits of being and Imperial, and the law. or you are a criminal.

Yes the benfits of being an Imperial need to be improved. Adding this content enables that. Lower the price of imperial perks. Though i have to say 420fp for a 8k HAM stormtrooper Medic is pretty **edit** cheap for CL25 Pet that shoots decent and heals himself, heals you sometimes too. (but don't count on it)

If they water down the definition of illegal, then they might as well ignore spice and slice and just scan for covert rebles, cause that is what it will boil down to in the end.

There is no Logic for how the "cops" should be able to do illegal things. Yes i can understand HIGH ranking Overt Imps getting some mods (no where near 95%)

Sure a high ranking official can cover up a few things and point subordinates the other way. But once caught they Fall, fall far and hard.

I fail to see why anyone should be able to emulate our defining skill without buying it. Maybe as a High Ranking Smuggler I should be given Imperial perks without having to declare.

We are for the first time getting empowered as smugglers. I am not prepared to barter that.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=52825

As Solo pointed out, we're looking at this from the Master point of view, and that's not fair to Novices. They put in the time and skillpoints to be able to smuggle.If aperson with the word Smugler over their head doesn't smuggle better thansomeone without that title, then something is very wrong. Why should someone throw down some Faction Points and permanently buy off the essence of another profession?

Oh, and welcome back, Kav.

"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

Kav

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:56 am

#8

I haven't changed my view on it Electronomad, refer to the yellow in my post. I am Aginst them getting a pass in any form. it is wrong, it dillutes our namesake, and it is too high a perk to be granted by faction points.

I am just saying it's not like i am going to quit or anyhting no matter how it comes out.

good to be back

**edit** the mydoom virus to bowel bleeding hades!!

hehe

Kav::~~Master~~ Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."

Ralyykk

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:02 am

#9

Good post, Kav.

There is a way to make smuggling a bit more than just a sub-game, but I'm not sure the smuggler community would readily accept this. It would still have similar aspects of BH missions though. I'll post it again in another thread so as to not hijack this one.

"This is a perk, not a class defining function."

Absolutely!!!! And I think that is the keypoint of your post.

Noohik -- Bloodfin

Kav

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:08 am

#10

Ralyykk wrote:

..."This is a perk, not a class defining function."

Absolutely!!!! And I think that is the keypoint of your post.

Yes it is, and i guess it is the one point i have changed view on slightly. I do not want Imperials to get our skill point based abilities any more than they think i should get an free suit of ST armor.

But i have downgraded my view of it all to "perk" because it is not enough. I do not want the devs thinking they are off the hook, this is not smuggling, it is not marketable, profitable, or fun enough for them to give it to us and say, "there, your smugglers now cya"

Kav::~~Master~~ Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."

electricnomad

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:18 am

#11

The Devs could very easily give us a player-mission smuggling economy by dropping the Imperial bonuses to scans and adding a few of the following items to the contraband list:

high-end resources (advanced medical components, radioactives, anything from Dathomir, etc)

high-end weaponry, like Scatter Pistols or T-21s

mounts and vehicles on adventure planets

etc

All the Devs have to do it make the entire player base feel the lure of contraband, make it tough for them to move it themselves, and then make Smugglers the only people who can get the gear through without serious penalties or risk.

"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

Kav

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:33 am

#12

electricnomad wrote:

The Devs could very easily give us a player-mission smuggling economy by dropping the Imperial bonuses to scans and adding a few of the following items to the contraband list:

high-end resources (advanced medical components, radioactives, anything from Dathomir, etc)

high-end weaponry, like Scatter Pistols or T-21s

mounts and vehicles on adventure planets

etc

All the Devs have to do it make the entire player base feel the lure of contraband, make it tough for them to move it themselves, and then make Smugglers the only people who can get the gear through without serious penalties or risk.

kinda a diffrent discussion really but, the same can be said for the Merchant profession Electro. It is difficult to sell your wares if you are not a merchant.

Does this mean we have alot of merchants? no, it means nearly all crafters dabble in merchant.

this is not enough to me, even if the contraband list was increased. this is not Smuggling, its smuggling. If you make everything illegal you do not increase the desire for smuggling, cause no one will desire the product. Smuggling Has to mean bringing something they cannot get through normal means that they all Want. If it is all illegal to own, not as many folks will want it.

also It would be inexcusable to make a professions weapon (t21, scatter) contraband. that would be as unfair to them as this whole thing with teh imp officers is to us.

Solo is making a great argument for it based on skill points incaylin's thread. i think that is the one we can all drive home on the devs. They are sensitive to it if we parallel the concept to what they are going through on combat droids.

Kav::~~Master~~ Smuggler::
Beul::Engineer::
"Credibility is like virginity, you can only lose it once."

chown2

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:45 am

#13

electricnomad wrote:
The Devs could very easily give us a player-mission smuggling economy by dropping the Imperial bonuses to scans and adding a few of the following items to the contraband list:
high-end resources (advanced medical components, radioactives, anything from Dathomir, etc)
high-end weaponry, like Scatter Pistols or T-21s
mounts and vehicles on adventure planets
etc
All the Devs have to do it make the entire player base feel the lure of contraband, make it tough for them to move it themselves, and then make Smugglers the only people who can get the gear through without serious penalties or risk.

I agree with you in principle, but I have a problem with them adding crafted items that people routinely carry to the contraband list. Once I make my delivery I don't want to have to babysit the user every time he uses the item (as would be the case with mounts and weapons not to mention the currently-planned crackdown on sliced items), and I don't really want players to be effectively locked out of using needed equipment.

Master Chown Darkcloud Smuggler

"I have a gaderiffi and a stun but no gaffi sticks. Sorry" - Chown

Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Imperial Crackdown