Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Combat Medic Issues Breakdown: Issues 1 and 2

vortexala
Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:31 pm
#14






Rikilii wrote:

I honestly don't see why CMs have a problem with money.


There are tons of ways to make money as a CM, just like every other profession. First of all, a CM has enough skill points to master Doctor, or a weapon skill, giving him plenty of opportunity to make money by selling stims, buffing, or running missions, or hunting loot droppers.


A CM, like everyone else alsocan earn money by harvesting resources, with or without having Surveying.








The issue isn't that we can't earn money using another profession, the issue is that we can't earn money(or have a difficult time doing so) using our own abilities and skills found within our profession. Each profession should have some way to earn money utilizing their skills.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Bamboozle
Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:41 pm
#15

Issue #1: Interdependency


I think letting CMs provide some components necessary to make cure poison and disease packs is a great idea. However, I suspect this is one of those things that really should have been there from the start, and changing the schematicsnow would cause all sorts of problems.



Issue #2: Money


Let me try this idea on you... What if CMs could buff people like doctors do, only our buffs give resistance to poison and disease? One buff for poison resist, one for disease resist. The effectiveness of the buff could be a certain percentage chance to resisting poison for 2-3 hours, say 10-40% chance, depending on the resources used.

Maybe this would reduce the nerf cries, and also give us something to make money from? Just a thought.



The Kitten's Diary, Day 781: I have discovered a most delightful way of making life miserable for my captors. Yesterday, I ate the woman's precious begonia, and today I have dismembered the amaryllis in the bedroom window. She is furious over the loss of her darling house plants! I find it highly gratifying.

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Resource Vendor in the BlueDog Mini-Mall, Haven Island, Corellia -2010 -4670

Zarlor
Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:09 pm
#16

My take on these would be:


#1 Interdependecies


I think we are looking at seperate issues here. One would be the resource requirements (which could, IMHO, be just as easily taken whole cloth from the Doc ro Medic issues lists as fully applying to CMs as well.) Asking that there be more dependincies from other professions on CMs would be a seperate issue from that (we tend to get better results the more granulated and seperated the issues are, from what I have seen.) The DoT addition for weapons would certainly be a seperate issue from these, even though it could be considered related. No reason why you couldn;t bring up in that issue that it might balance dependencies a little better if such a thing were implimented. In all, though, I think the best that might be achieved by increasing dependencies on CMs would only be "spreading the pain" of what we already have to deal with on the resource issue. THe only real way to level that playing field, IMHO, would be to make resource gathering a completely seperate profession from both the scout and the artisan lines, then ALL of the crafters would be in the same boat... OR provide some better compensation to us for not having the ability to get our resources from within our own skillset.


#2 Money


I'd say just take the Medic money issue and run with it. It's pretty much the same in CM as it is there. The Doc version may have slightly less relavence only in their ability to get some monetary gain from buffing and Stim B sales.



Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Morganite
Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:21 am
#17






Zarlor wrote:

My take on these would be:


#1 Interdependecies


I think we are looking at seperate issues here. One would be the resource requirements (which could, IMHO, be just as easily taken whole cloth from the Doc ro Medic issues lists as fully applying to CMs as well.) Asking that there be more dependincies from other professions on CMs would be a seperate issue from that (we tend to get better results the more granulated and seperated the issues are, from what I have seen.) The DoT addition for weapons would certainly be a seperate issue from these, even though it could be considered related. No reason why you couldn;t bring up in that issue that it might balance dependencies a little better if such a thing were implimented. In all, though, I think the best that might be achieved by increasing dependencies on CMs would only be "spreading the pain" of what we already have to deal with on the resource issue. THe only real way to level that playing field, IMHO, would be to make resource gathering a completely seperate profession from both the scout and the artisan lines, then ALL of the crafters would be in the same boat... OR provide some better compensation to us for not having the ability to get our resources from within our own skillset.







Err, huh? All you typed is nice, but the fact remains we have no products to sell from our combat medic class, nobody needs our goods, and our services are limited to mind diseasing in cantina's. Medics can make stimb's just as good as we can, and both of us make crappy ones compared to a doctor. We are a true hybrid profession, half crafter, half combat. The thing is, our combat skills from CM alone only allow us to draw whopping 1-4k missions, and nobody wants our craftables other then fellow combat medics.



Your post is off-target because we cannot sell our craftables even as a master, an architect can, a weaponsmith can, a doctor can, an armorsmith can. Resource gathering is neither here nor there for this topic, the fact remains we have zero sales outlet for our combat medic craftables other then to people who share our profession. That itself is ludicrious. Do weaponsmiths set up vendors to sell products only to other weaponsmiths? (insert any other crafting profession for weaponsmith if you wish). Of course not, and that is our problem, that we need to be fixed.





MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
vortexala
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:50 am
#18

Morganite,

Z is simply saying(correct me if I'm wrong here, Z) that there are two different interdependency issues here. One of resource gathering(which effect all Medical Professions) and one of Interdependence in the form of other professions requiring something from us as we require something from other professions.



~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:47 am
#19






vortexala wrote:



Issue #1: Interdependency


Should we put Issue #12 into this issue? For example, if we were to have Docs dependent upon us for components for their cure packs, would that mitigate the need to be able to fully experiment on all of our requisite components?



I think that making Docs dependent upon us for components should be a separate matter. This to not confuse it with the fact that we really do lack any appeal to the other classes. Our area heals would be welcome on missions, if not for the fact that buffs more or less negate the need to get healed during missions. Our wound healing capabilites are the same as that of a Medic (and lesser than that of a Doc), making us redundant. And we have nothing to sell to anyone else than other CMs.

What I would like is to have something that made other classes dependent upon us for something. The idea for resist-buffs is one of the things that could solve this issue.
Though the matter of resists would have to be looked into deeper since we would get a conflict of intrests here. Maybe the entire resist system would have to be looked over.


Issue #2: Money


Just as the Medics, a large number of CMs have issues with obtaining credits. We do not have any services to offer, such as buffing for docs, nor do we have any widely used meds to sell, such as B-Stims. There are no 'Medic Missions' from which we can obtain credits from for using our healing skills, and 'Destroy Missions' do not scale with our offensive abilities.



In part this could be solved by creating more interdependency with the other classes. Give us a craftable or service to sell so to speak. The other part of solving would be to make the "Destroy missions" acknowledge our poisons. (Though poisons sorely need to be scaled upwards in PvE)

Money is an extremely important issue to most Combat Medics. We have allthe expenses of the crafting classes and none of the gains. Therefore this should be a top priority.


Message Edited by vortexala on 03-15-2004 04:05 PM








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BTW Yes it is true, I've tested it myself, poison only ticks once every TEN seconds!

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Zarlor
Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:40 am
#20

Texxie has it right. He asked our opinions on the whole of the issues involved with interdependencies and where they intersect with CMs (or don't, as the case may be.) The issue as a whole entitey right now would be that we have a very large dependency on Artisans and Rangers for resources, and a smaller dependency on Docs for our Stim components, with no external dependencies on us (unless you consider having our crowd control skills available in PvP actions a kind of dependency). I'm simply suggesting that this situation is best handled and addressed as a broken out set of issues instead of as a single issue, which would seem to be releavent based on what Texxie was asking for opinions on.



Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Morganite
Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:34 pm
#21

Yes, but fix our lack of sales options, and our lack of an ability to get decent paying missions for our skill level. I personally don't see how we NEED rangers or artisans, combat medic, doctor, or just plain medic leaves plenty of skill points to get into some artisan, and scout so we dont really NEED anyone else to gather our resources. Remember, we all make a choice as to where we spend our skill points, and if you choose not to allow yourself the ability to gather your own resources, you really cant complain about it.


I dont think it is right to compare a medical crafting profession to a non medical crafting profession. Should armorsmiths be allowed to harvest hides because they are armorsmiths? Of course not,


My main concern is even if we spend the skill points to be able to harvest our own meats, and survey/sample for our own other materials, we still have no real sales outlet, and no ability to draw decent paying missions on our own. let's fix that aspect of our profession before we worry about the ideas in your post Z. Am I the only one who finds it strange we spend the most skill points of any profession that entails craftables, and have the least ability to sell our wares? That needs to be addressed.



MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
Zarlor
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:19 pm
#22

I don't mean to suggest not having saleable goods is not an important issue. Only that it is a seperate one and would likely be best presented in that manner.


I also realize that there are those who would disagree about the need for the medical professions to have an issue with resource gathering abilities, yet the issue is not only constantly brought up on all 3 of the medical profession forums, but it also consistently ranks as a Top 5 issue in all of them. The question of which is the horse and which is the cart is certainly debatable, but the polling clearly shows the vast majority of medical professionals consider the resource issue to be a top issue and as such, no matter that some may disagree, it is our duty as correspondents to understand and represent the majority position, as well as the positions that are counter to it (you'll notice that I offer links in the resource issues on the Doc and Medic forums that I tried to write up based on Medic and Doc positions and those links, I believe, hold some fairly lively discussion well covering both sides of the issue so the full viewpoint can be maintained.)


So while we may disagree as to which of these issues is the cart and which the horse (or even if one or either of them is an issue at all), and therefore which should take precident,will likely always be a point of contention, it seems to me that my primary stance here is that these are still best presented as two separate issues and that CMs should be able to vote on and decide for themselves which of the two is more important to them. That is the point I was driving at, not to push one part of the issue over the other.





Zarlor - Mesric City, Dantooine - Eclipse
Arissi Plains, Dantooine - Test Center
Menoetius
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:58 pm
#23

My alt is a Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, the Interdependency would not bother me in the least.


I have found if you make a high quality product and sell them at a fair price you can make good stable income.


I sell my poisons and diseases to a select few client and none to the opposing faction (I'm up front about this). On the weekend I sold roughly 150 poison packs for just over 500k.



Menoetius / Eryn (12 pt MD/MCM)
Doctor and Combat Medic Supplies
Vendors: 3560 x -5460 - New Hope, Lok (Lowca)
Morganite
Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:01 pm
#24






Menoetius wrote:

My alt is a Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic, the Interdependency would not bother me in the least.


I have found if you make a high quality product and sell them at a fair price you can make good stable income.


I sell my poisons and diseases to a select few client and none to the opposing faction (I'm up front about this). On the weekend I sold roughly 150 poison packs for just over 500k.






I have the same template, the problem is we have had all the resources spawn in high quality on my server within the last 6-8 weeks, so it is difficult to make any large-scale sales. 20-30 points effectiveness (the only non uber resources we haven't had lately has been eleton) isnt enough to attract buyers, and the holocraze is almost dead on ahazi, so most combat medics now have had this profession long enough to get the good resources needed..



MMM Industries, found at 2540 -4661 near Mos eisley. Food, weapons, powerups, armor, med's, speeders, repair tools, we have it all..


Offer all auction winnings to the food vendor at said waypoint..
Imperial_Destroyer
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:22 pm
#25

1. I don't see it as an issue



2. I don't see it as an issue.



I have no problems running out making creds, dunno why this is a problem.



Rebel
Obide's Supplies Master Weaponsmith Master Artisan
Vendors Cor De Naboo 7184, -5311
Making weapons for too long hehe.
IThe path to opening the slot was; unimaginitive, uncreative, ruinous to the game, and flat out lazy programming.
Etow
Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:51 am
#26

1. Aye, I think an interdependancy of some module a dr can use would be good. They basically have us depending on them for good experimented schematics for components for our own area stims.


2. I dont like the idea of innoculations or cure packs for CMs to sell. You are forgetting to look at the detrement something like this would cause. Yes, a CM may have more money. But that is all they would have. As now your basically uneffective in the field because everyone is innoculated or has a cure pack or is buffed in dr/pr and we cant land a bug on them at all. Now an area cure pack for Drs may be a good idea, if the packs were limited to how many poison/disease counters they could reduce (I think P/D made by a Master CM with high potentcy should take more cure attempts to remove then say a novice CM's bug) and/or have a HIGH mind cost like CMs have for doing mind heals. I think SOE may need to sit down and decide if the truely want CM the way it is now, where we are highly effective as offensive (thats debateable too) and as support units, or strictly support, where our offensive use is limited and discouraged by scaled back P/D and high costs to use.



Etow Einyw
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Teras Kasi Master/Master Doctor
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