Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Player Payment Interface proposal
UTech
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:56 pm
#14
The ID interface and process is clean, uncomplicatedand useful, but the differences between the two services must somehow be addressed. If I type 10000cr into an ID interface for a stat migration, and don't have the cash, my stats don't get migrated, and the ID is only out a few minutes of time (or so I understand it). If I try to secure trade andtype in more credits than Ihave, it'scancelled and nobody is out anything.
Healing is not an "all-at-once" process like stat migrate or trading, requiring several "hits", and it uses items from a Medic's inventory unlike a stat migrate. At the end of the healing, or even part way through,is the wrong time to find out. A check of the bank account needs to somehowbe done up front, and the client cannot type in a number bigger than their account balance.
NJ62
Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:00 pm
#15
I've thought of a method for griefing in this system - the system does the "funds check" and everything checks out, and then the customer immediately tips his money to a friend. Just trying to think like a griefer...
Jagii
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:24 pm
#16
I think the this proposal for "forced tipping" is bad. It just seems like it would be adding unnecessary time and complications into the healing process. However, I do agree that something should be done.
-----
So here's my proposal:
- A medic who wants to heal registers at the medical center.
- Being on the registry allows players to see which medics are currently on duty, their level of medical training, their preferred healing rates, and number of patients waiting for that medic.
- A patient can either consult the registry and choose to see a specific medic (or medics), or can just walk in and be healed by anyone.
- Medics should have some sort of window displaying their current patients, in order. They SHOULD NOT have to go back to the registry terminal.
- When the patient is completely healed, he/she is automatically removed from the list.
- The patient may leave, with or without tipping.
In my experience, many people seem to think that just because I can heal quickly, I am also loaded, which is far from the truth. Also, many people simply just don't know how much to tip. With this idea, patients know how much of a tip is proper, and can easily find out how much they should tip, without having to ask the medic directly (to save both parties from any embarrassment issues). This can also reinforce the idea that healing is not a free service.
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I'm wondering...should medics be forced to register in order to heal in a medical center? Should patients be forced to register in order to be healed?
Another idea...how about giving patients the option of automatically tipping his according to rates that he sets for himself, or automatically tipping the medic's suggested rates?
= Andrew
-----
So here's my proposal:
- A medic who wants to heal registers at the medical center.
- Being on the registry allows players to see which medics are currently on duty, their level of medical training, their preferred healing rates, and number of patients waiting for that medic.
- A patient can either consult the registry and choose to see a specific medic (or medics), or can just walk in and be healed by anyone.
- Medics should have some sort of window displaying their current patients, in order. They SHOULD NOT have to go back to the registry terminal.
- When the patient is completely healed, he/she is automatically removed from the list.
- The patient may leave, with or without tipping.
In my experience, many people seem to think that just because I can heal quickly, I am also loaded, which is far from the truth. Also, many people simply just don't know how much to tip. With this idea, patients know how much of a tip is proper, and can easily find out how much they should tip, without having to ask the medic directly (to save both parties from any embarrassment issues). This can also reinforce the idea that healing is not a free service.
-----
I'm wondering...should medics be forced to register in order to heal in a medical center? Should patients be forced to register in order to be healed?
Another idea...how about giving patients the option of automatically tipping his according to rates that he sets for himself, or automatically tipping the medic's suggested rates?
= Andrew
Message Edited by Jagii on 11-29-2004 02:27 PM
MasterNerfSlayer
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:47 pm
#17
NJ62 wrote:
I've thought of a method for griefing in this system - the system does the "funds check" and everything checks out, and then the customer immediately tips his money to a friend. Just trying to think like a griefer...
I liked your idea, and I have a modification to stop griefing on both sides. The player sees the rates for healing, selects what he/she wants healed, then uses one of those slider bars we see in the bank and on maintenance windows to transfer credits up to the max cost of the heal. The key to this will be that when the player accepts, the money gets transfered to the system, and the system then either pays the medic as they heal from this pool. If the grouping (whether it's the system groupnig I suggested or ID style grouping) gets broken, the remaining credits are credited back to the player.
Ok, an example for the slider. Player sees my rate is 10 points per wound. I have 6 bars with a total of 500 points damage (125 to health, 27 constititution, 64 to strength etc etc). The slider says the max I can allocate is 10cr x 500 = 5,000 credits. The player says "oh, I only have 3,153cr on me" and allocated 3,000cr to the heal. The Medic then proceeds to heal 300 points of wounds from the player (or slightly less if he does not want to waste a large heal for only 20 points of healing). Either player can then break the group, and any remaining credits go back to the player. The Medic could continue to heal if he likes, but will not receive any more credits for the healing.
This system is definitely a little more complicated, but bypasses afking and griefing.
MasterNerfSlayer
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:52 pm
#18
Marzuk147 wrote:
This is learning to run before you walk IMO.
Tell me, what do these things have in common:
1) TK meditation
2) Composite armor
3) Low secondary and Primary stats
4) Infrequent wounding
5) Mobs that disease are rare, and avoided
6) Novice medic (15 point investment) with good wound Bs bieng able to heal wounds quickly
If you said all these things diminish wounds and the importance of a doctor, then you would be correct!
Don't count your chickens before the CU egg hatches.
MasterNerfSlayer
Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:56 pm
#19
Jagii wrote:
...
I'm wondering...should medics be forced to register in order to heal in a medical center? Should patients be forced to register in order to be healed?
No and No. You should never be stopped from doing something, instead their should be bonuses for doing it the prefered way. A Medic in the field healing guild mates is not going to want this window getting in their way. But a Medical Center or Hospital should be providing healing bonuses above that you can get anywhere else, along with guaranteed payments.
= Andrew
Message Edited by Jagii on 11-29-2004 02:27 PM
Pahdbacca
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:43 pm
#20
Nothing gets me more angry than giving people the benefit of doubt when agreeing to a healing price and watching them skip out on it afterwards.
However............
I am also guilty of giving free healing away should I wish to do so to certain players (newbies and polite players in particular). I think that any payment scheme implemeted should allow for that.
MasterNerfSlayer
Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:13 pm
#21
Well as the discussion has progressed things have changed of course. You might set your rates, get an ID style pop-up window allowing you to alter the rates for this one person..
Pahdbacca wrote:
Nothing gets me more angry than giving people the benefit of doubt when agreeing to a healing price and watching them skip out on it afterwards.
However............
I am also guilty of giving free healing away should I wish to do so to certain players (newbies and polite players in particular). I think that any payment scheme implemeted should allow for that.
taloncard
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:29 pm
#22
2 words
Combat Balance
Combat Revamp
Combat upgrade.
Medics and docs will have some use after it.....................................................................I hope.
Marzuk147
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:37 pm
#23
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:Marzuk147 wrote:
This is learning to run before you walk IMO.
Tell me, what do these things have in common:
1) TK meditation
2) Composite armor
3) Low secondary and Primary stats
4) Infrequent wounding
5) Mobs that disease are rare, and avoided
6) Novice medic (15 point investment) with good wound Bs bieng able to heal wounds quickly
If you said all these things diminish wounds and the importance of a doctor, then you would be correct!Don't count your chickens before the CU egg hatches.
I wont count my chickens before the CU egg hatches, but I also wont put all my eggs in the same basket, fair enough?
I think a MUCH simpler and LONG OVERDUE mechanism should be at work. Medic missions. Medic is the ONLY base class without a mission terminal. Combat classes (brawler, marksman) have destroy, Scouts have exploration, entertainers have entertainer missions, artisans have artisan mission terminals.
Not only are medics without a terminal, the long long argued about medical forage rears its ugly head in this arguement again. It is easy to see that the devs intended some mechanism that at least in some capacity, allows medics to get what is needed to be a medic. Of course it doesnt do anything.. id like to see the original design documents on it.
Giving medics a simple 1 credit per wound healed would be good enough IMO, then let the very very few players that want to tip, do so. Make it such that you can not heal the same person more than once every 15 minutes for credits, and with the low payout, its virtually pointless to exploit. It would however cover the cost of the meds + a bit of profit.
I still STRONGLY believe, and would be willing to bet on that no matter what is done to wounds, healing them will NOT be a profitable service, nor even a service that can be charged for. About the only way to make it profitable, would be to make wounds so horrendously bad that it would take a medic half an hour to heal the wounds, and you would constantly have to have this service done. Even with massive wounds people would likely just sit afk in the med center auto healing, if they were bad enough, they would use an anti afk macro to keep healing overnight.
You see, this is a service, and like all services, people dont want to pay for it. Getting it for free since launch doesnt help either, but face it - people are conditioned to buy new uber shiny weapons from a vendor ect, but they are not nor will they be conditioned to pay someone to do this.
Message Edited by Marzuk147 on 11-30-2004 02:42 AM
Marzuk147
Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:01 am
#24
This is learning to run before you walk IMO.
Tell me, what do these things have in common:
1) TK meditation
2) Composite armor
3) Low secondary and Primary stats
4) Infrequent wounding
5) Mobs that disease are rare, and avoided
6) Novice medic (15 point investment) with good wound Bs bieng able to heal wounds quickly
If you said all these things diminish wounds and the importance of a doctor, then you would be correct!
Add to this that people who are desperate for medic xp heal people for free, and what do you have? Thats right - an unimportant service that no one cares about, and no one pays for. Implementing a payment interface would because of this serve no purpose.
When people are limited to 798 wounds max (399+399 health action) and its not even possible to get secondary wounds, and even then most secondary stats dont go over 500 - whats the point of anything over a Wound C?
The first thing that I thing needs to happen: Each advanced component added to a medicine needs to raise its level. Med use 15? ok you are stuck using base 80 power wound Bs and 200 power stim Bs. Then, all wounds need to be made like Battle Fatigue. They should cap at a certain point, and only effect you past a certain point. The cap should be totally unrelated to your current stats. If you could pick up 500 of a wound before it started to effect you, newbies would stop bothering me because they are wounded by 20 points.
The increase in wounds without an increase in annoyance to the player, along with the decrease in a medics ability to heal wounds, would be a great start on something productive. The possibility of having up to 1000 wounds, would mean that higher level doc wound packs actually have a purpose.
Start doing things like this, and then MAYBE you will find a use for a payment window.
Tell me, what do these things have in common:
1) TK meditation
2) Composite armor
3) Low secondary and Primary stats
4) Infrequent wounding
5) Mobs that disease are rare, and avoided
6) Novice medic (15 point investment) with good wound Bs bieng able to heal wounds quickly
If you said all these things diminish wounds and the importance of a doctor, then you would be correct!
Add to this that people who are desperate for medic xp heal people for free, and what do you have? Thats right - an unimportant service that no one cares about, and no one pays for. Implementing a payment interface would because of this serve no purpose.
When people are limited to 798 wounds max (399+399 health action) and its not even possible to get secondary wounds, and even then most secondary stats dont go over 500 - whats the point of anything over a Wound C?
The first thing that I thing needs to happen: Each advanced component added to a medicine needs to raise its level. Med use 15? ok you are stuck using base 80 power wound Bs and 200 power stim Bs. Then, all wounds need to be made like Battle Fatigue. They should cap at a certain point, and only effect you past a certain point. The cap should be totally unrelated to your current stats. If you could pick up 500 of a wound before it started to effect you, newbies would stop bothering me because they are wounded by 20 points.
The increase in wounds without an increase in annoyance to the player, along with the decrease in a medics ability to heal wounds, would be a great start on something productive. The possibility of having up to 1000 wounds, would mean that higher level doc wound packs actually have a purpose.
Start doing things like this, and then MAYBE you will find a use for a payment window.
NJ62
Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:15 am
#26
I think we're running into problems trying to mimic the ID system because in our case, the heals are largely random, and we don't have enough control over them to say "okay you have 200 points of wounds, I'll ONLY heal 50." Because healing depends on so many factors, and it happens over time, it's hard to figure out a payment system in which NEITHER party can grief the other.