Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Some Q and A on upcomming changes
To understand the art of war, makes you a more balanced tool for war. That's why CM takes Ranged Weapon support.
Zarlor wrote:
Hm.. seems kind of ludicrous to me to not realy on your wepaon to deliver a killing blow. I mean what did we have to take Ranged Weapon Support for if we weren't expected to be able to at least miniamally use a weapon.
Zarlor wrote:
And 1 hp is pretty darned minimal. Besides is there ever a time when you don't have a weapon in hand when you are tossing your poisons? I mean why not shoot and poison at the same time when something is aggro on you, in PvE or PvP?
Well, 1 HP is pretty darn minimal that's true but if you're regenerating at 70 every seconds, it doesn't seem to be very minimal, now does it? And I rather not shoot at the other individual because I would prefer not to get shot back, I like to use the obsticles and LoS to my advantage as I maneuver my way around.
"And 1 hp is pretty darned minimal. Besides is there ever a time when you don't have a weapon in hand when you are tossing your poisons? I mean why not shoot and poison at the same time when something is aggro on you, in PvE or PvP? "
Why shoot and poison at the same time? Since the poison is going to drop whatever pool it's targetted on more than my pistol4 skills are going to do then what's the point of using a weapon on the target and putting yourself in the line of fire? 1 hp may be pretty minimal but when a rifleman has me constantly knocked down thanks to dizzy it's a whole lot! Poison incapping the target is the ONLY way I can take another player down in PvP (CM/Doc here). If our poison can't incap, then neither should any other DOT, yet I get flamed and bled to death constantly.
reference my post in the thread 'Why have poison stop at 1 point'. The hugest problem I see with this is that it gives every class a simple solution to poison - Burst Run.
The day this change goes live is the day all my poison gets dumped and the disease comes out until I get a holocron and get forced into some other gimped class, lol 
People with no clue like to call CM's griefers now, just wait til it becomes disease city!
Zarlor -
"So the difference is instead of poisoning someone, then kiting them until they fall, you have to poison them then kite them until they are down to 1 hp and thenyou turn around and take 1 shot."
(sorry, never bothered to figure out how to 'quote' someone, lol)
And if that one shot is a knockdown followed by dizzy or any other posture changing attack? Or a one shot incap from a commando? Or a host of any other things that can go wrong for you in one shot?
So I played my profession as best as possible, basically all but beat my opponent but I HAVE to let him have that one shot that can totally change the outcome of the battle? What other profession is REQUIRED to let their opponent have one last chance to beat them? And that's what it amounts to in PvP, we have to let our opponent have the chance to beat us while they are on the verge of death. meh.
The worse part about this is what if we cant target the mind? So his mind is at 1 but all his other stats wont be. If you poison his health or action well most PvP can just use a stim and poof back to full health. This is total BS if they do this they should not allow the use of ANY stim/wounds until a cure is applied to the user.
My 2 cents canadian
Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset about the one HP change coming. But I think what people are saying is we have become suicide bombers. We have to get within about 40m and throw. I usually get incapped after dropping a bomb, but it made me happy watching them drop after I dropped. LOL
No big deal though....looks like another change in tactics.
basically the 1hp pvp thing will affect me big time. I love to get people out in the field away from cities doing thier missions..while i am also a pistoleer and am confident that i can get that last hitpoint a high number of my target burst run away and i "temporarily" lose them...and previously i am confident that my poison will incap them shortly so i know they cant run far. I can usually hold my own with my pistol against most (except eyeshotspamming BH and commandos) and have used the poison as a backup anti-burstrun mechanism =)
So i will lose some targets now. Not sure what skill to give up to regain headshot 1 =) Maybe shifting our poison to target health instead of mind mind be the answer for MCM/pistoleer combos and for MCM/MD will stick with mind poison/rifle headshot?
S'atyr
Please please tell me that this is NOT going live. I cannot believe that they would gimp an already gimped class? I am not totally sure how this will increase the usefullness of diseases. Seeing that the disease takes just as long to tick asa poison.
I forsee a CM who is now feared by other classes in PvP to become just anouther toy. " Oh look it's just a CM" No biggie lets kill the others and let the Doctors keep us healed. We'll take the CM out last since he can't kill us.
Why is it that they can spend weeks on end talking to rifleman about 1 blasted rifle and getting opinions from the people who actually play the characters. But yet when they change one of OUR major weapons we don't even get told about it before the throw it into the testing center?
This +1 HP this blows and if it hits the live servers SOE can say goodbye to another account. We spend 27 extra points so we can use a CDEF? ok what about the other people wearing say hmmm ARMOR! or heaven forbid if I evern get a chance to HIT them. What is my to hit at that lose rate. I seem to remember missing alot when I was just starting out. and now with most people Wearing Armor and better skills I have no prayer of hitting them before they get off **ONE** mind shot to kill me. Health and Action bars can be healed too easily. I mean hell every bounthy hunter I know uses Stim Bs that will heal over 800. So hitting the health or action bar is just reduntant. So I hit the mind bar. NOW **I** have to SHOOT the mind bar as well. WIth WHAT!!! I guess I can spam specials and pray that a random one hits the mind bar before he has a change to regen +20 HP every 4-8 senonds. So not I have to take up rifle. OOOOHHHH yea if I pull out my rifle a TKA blows on me and I take 2000 points of damage. WHY??? Because I have a rifle in hand I down take 2.5 times the damage in melee combat.
So my new fighting style is to run toward target,
hit the 40m mark
(MINDSHOT)
ouch that hurt toss posion stim
(MINDSHOT2) (BLEED)
ok i'm down to 1/2 my mind (or less)
fire my gun ooo look at the lazers making 90 degree turns off the screen......
(BLEED)(miss headshot)(they are down by 1/4 HP)
2/3 down darn.....Throw disease pack (Resist) (da'mn)
(BLEED)(HEADSHOT)
(YOU ARE INCAPPED)
(posion bleed they are down to 1/2)
(PvP enemy laughs "Bye Bye" DBed)
(watch enemy walk away laughing, sets up camp, and watches my corpse rot as the posions wears off and he regens mind pool)
HMM THAT WAS F***KEN WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there are a few other changes I want to point out so everyone has a better picture on how things are working now
the CM poison and disease components have been moved to the CM tree. This means you will no longer be required to take doctor in order to get the 10 experimental points for crafting. the components used for stims are still in the medic/doctor trees.
The CM medicine effectiveness has been boosted 10 points, this has given our poisons a slight increase in damage
all the newbie creatures that were originally designed to have poison and disease can now cause poison and disease
although i haven't tested it yet, i believe we will be able to toss heals, poisons, and diseases while we are on mounts.
Item decay on incap was removed yesterday, but it could return at a dev's whim
now my arguments
With the doctor medicine crafting skills no longer required by CM's to make good poisons, there is no reason to keep you doctor skills unless you like playing doctor. Doc's have some great abilities that do compliment the CM skills quite effectivly but these skills are not a prerequsite for anything in the CM line. Granted, having 10 experiment points to use on the stim components would be nice, but I find that the effectivness of our stims are decent without the added experimentation. With this being the case, it will free up quite a few skill points to train in other areas such as marksman or CH
For those of you saying you will not be able to toss and run taking out an entire enemy army in the process, should a Combat medic really be able to do this? We are a support class with teeth, but I do not feel it is in the best intrest of balance that we should be able to lay waste to 30 people while burst running out of range of their weapons. If we are able to /applypoison or /applydisease from a mount, this would only increase the ease of this tactic and the boards would light up the words N E R F CM's. Stopping the poison from incapping will give the doctors time to cure our AoE (balance issue solved) It will make the CM more of a support role than a killer role (our poisons ticks do add up) and it gives us a reason to use diseases in a PvP battle, because it is harder to heal wounds than it is to heal damage.
You will not be able to solo under the new poison rule? I have been soloing the bol and piket longhorn destroy missions on Dantooine with my Sludge Panther. I do use a health poison on the target but it is weak (350 per tick) If I had a mount, i could /applypoison and kite the missions (possible doc/cm stratigy)Your ability to solo will depend on your templet of choice. we are not really ment to be a solo profession (aoe heal is a dead giveaway) but it can be done.
Item decay on incap has been removed from TC, but I could return after an adjustment. Without the +1 rule, if the incaped item decay was in place, it would give a CM a griefing tool that would destroy any equipment the enemy was carrying. Also without the +1 rule people poisoned by creatures ( both large and small critters that didn't poison before now do) would constantly be incapped in PvE.
/sigh. Sounds like someone gavehalf a thought out ( or probably less
to a work around.
CM poisonshould incap. If they don't, then no dots should incap. This includes all bleeds and commando fire, all creature/ npc dots andbleeds, etc. I'd actually prefer this. However, poisons shouldn't be gimped because we don't have a correspondent.
If poisons are too powerful in PVP, then reduce their effectiveness in PVP or make them more resisted but don't make them completely useless. With this implementation someone can simply kill the CM and then cure the poison or let it run its pitifully useless course, long after the CM is dead. They can also burst run away, either before or after killing the CM, if they want.
I'd actually prefer poison damage be doubled and then have the 75% pvp reduction added instead. It would make poisonuseful in PVE and half as effective in PVP as they currently are.
it seems that we get thrown a few bones and they hope to screw the pvp usefullness of the whole class and noone would complain.
yea you get a few bonuses but who cares when you cant kill someone. why does it matter that a poison will tick higher or you have better effectiveness if you cant incap anyone? cms used to be the 1st target because there aoes were dangerous now they will be the last because who cares there no threat just a mild annoyance.
so all bleeds and dots will kill but ours?
all that said i dont think they should last after incap i dont think any dots or bleeds should it will stop the griefing but will not kill the class.
Silverchair wrote:
Who is the complete moron who suggested the 1hp idea? They obviously dont play a combat medic. Most combat medics are cm/dr combinations. How is a cm/dr supposed to db something, with harsh language? Even if you aren't a cm/dr, and have cm with some weapons training, there ISN"T enough time in pvp for you a combat medic to toss area stims to heal the group, toss poisons, then shoot someone? It takes time to switch from stim to poison to a weapon. This 1hp left idea does absolutely NOTHING to help the combat medic. If there is a plus to any of this, please enlighten me.
Yeah, that complete moron would be me and I can guarantee that I've been an MD/MCM a LOT longer than you.
Even if I didn;t have Novice Marksman I could take out a guy with only 1hp, but that being said it was offered as a possible solution to a grief from poisons. It is on Test for a reason, to be tested. No guarantees it will go live, but if you REALLY think you will be SOOOO badly affected by this, why don't you get on over to TC, build up a CM and give it a try. Chances are you are whining for no real reason here. It's 1 friggin hp. Even if I'm unlucky enough to run into my target between ticks and they had a great regen rate and were at some incredibly great regen like 70 hps, I could STILL take them down with one shot from a CDEF. And if you're a CM with a CDEF... well, that's just sad. YOu have Novice Marksman for a reason.
The plusses... folks won't get caught in a constant incap cycle where they never die but poisons SEEM to last for 45 minutes. The loot/harvest persmissons bug, where you have no corpse permissions if your poison kills a MOB won't happen anymore (although it should be noted that all DoTs suffer from this problem and I agree taht all of them should probably be made to not incap). And if we get this decay on incap coming through, it would give a few CMs too much of an ability to grief by leaving folks to constant incap while constantly forcing their items to decay, yet they won't dare commit suicide to stop the poison because all the incaps from poison won't quite equal the decay from death.
Now I'm not saying this was the best idea or fix for anything, it was jsut an idea I had offered up and asked for more input from this very forum. I also offered up all the ideas presented at the time and all of the arguments leavied against the no-incap for poisons idea to our Dev. He just decided to try this particular out, apparently. I have not tested it, but so far all I see is that it will require a change in our tactics, but reallr isn't some kind of death knell for CM poisons. I'd rather give it a try first before dismissing it out of hand jsut because it's different from what we do now.
Kavedawg wrote:
there are a few other changes I want to point out so everyone has a better picture on how things are working now
all the newbie creatures that were originally designed to have poison and disease can now cause poison and disease
/setemote Sincere 
This brings up another question...
Will creature Poisons/diseases stop at +1?
What IS the diffrence between our poisons, and that found in the wild? Yes they are more powerful, but we use our "Expertise" to refine the ingredients down to their to their most potent/deadly.
/setemote none
I have another idea, but I would probably be hung by the rest of my fellow CM's so I will keep it to myself. 