Combat Medic Archive

Now maybe this change won't be all bad. Maybe it'll really suck. I tend to be in the camp that says it will suck

But I have a question for those of you who think it's aok super duper #1 fix (ok, being a little facetious there, but I hate this change, lol):

Right now, before this change, do you use disease?

Just wondering. I never, ever, ever see any CM's using disease. But why not? It actually has a much better effect on the target than poison. It can't be healed in combat. It causes downtime on your opponents. Basically it does everything poison does, but does it better.

Ok, it is slower. But if you're kiting, or running or whatever that really doesn't matter.

Ok, it's kinda griefy. But it is one of our class abilities. Should we not use it just to play 'nice'? Commando's have no problem flaming the heck out of my health bar.

I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here, but I think the primary reason CM's rarely use disease is because it stops at 1 HAM. I know that's a big part of the reason why I stopped using it.It made no sense. It sucked. I got killed much more often by players who weren't actually being stopped by my disease.

Now, I'm just wondering. If I'm correct there, and we all really don't use disease currently because it stops at 1 HAM, then what makes anyone think it's going to be wonderifously splendid when poison has the same drawback that we currently think makes disease crappy and useless? It's no different really. If disease drops them to 1 HAM you can "run in with your CDEF to do one point of damage" (tm). So why not use the weapon that creates more useful effects on your opponent right now?

meh. I've given up now. I'm going to run to Bestine and poison my arse off til this change goes in. I'll put up with all the hateful /tells. I'm going to rack up all the fp I can get while the getting is good. I apologize to any imps in Bestine who end up the target of my frustration. And I will no longer seek healers for those who are stuck in incap. I'm tired of trying to do the right thing and getting bent over for it.

And when this change goes over, I'm switching to adisease arsenal, with 80m poison to soften the target. And I will disease and area disease over and over and over. I may not db many players. I may get killed very often. With the death decay I'll probably be running in naked. If the only way to make people understand what they've gotten done to us is to smack them over the head with their own nerf bats, then that's what i'll do I guess. Is that griefing? Maybe But I'll be trying to db whenever I can. And this is the only weapon they've left us with. Until disease gets nerfed. And then people will whine about poison again, so we'll get a 75% reduction. And then they'll complain about range so that'll get nerfed. And then they'll complain about "20 players were hit with one shot!" so they'll nerf the heck out of area to a 2m range.

We've given them an inch, it's only a matter of time til they take the whole mile. They don't hate us because they really think we're overpowered. They hate us because poison and disease are fearful things. Because there's not much they can do about it. Why do people think everyone should have a defense against everything?

I want a flame retardant suit so I can go toe to toe with commando's.

True bcasey, but I was speaking more in the sense of Solo PvP. Which everyone seems to think we're not allowed to do. Sorry for not making that clear.

But even in group PvP (or PvE for that matter) one of my friends will kill whatever target I'm poisoning before the poison ever gets to it's first tick if they so desire. In PvE it will have some effect, but so many times i've watched my poison tick down XXX bar while my teammates slughter the beastie by hitting XXZ bar. Or even hitting the same bar but just outdamaging the poison by a great deal.

Sure we should be able to solo PvP and we still can,you think it is the 1 Point of Damag you must do that you never can solo in PvP ? In my opinion this changes nothing in 1vs1 situation, it effects 1vs many and in that case it is good that we cant solo many!

You must have strong friend that he can kill everthing before your poisen ticks, the heavy damge weapons i know that can can 1 shot kill someone are at 16 Meter Range, if you do your job well the enemy is half down till he is in range of your friend. Somtimes i think i play a different game then you Bender

Eriki, group up with a TKM and go fight Darktroopers. Then come back and tell me how much your poison added to the battle.

I guess you must be playing a different game. Either that or the people you play with are not very good at PvP.

Let me direct you to something interesting that was posted in Discussion forum.

http://slickworld.com/cm_poison.jpg

That is a link to a picture put up by someone who thinks CM's should be nerfed. He complained of the fact that it only took 10 seconds for a CM to incap him with poison. Now look just under the part where he is incapped to what that poster failed to notice.

01:06:10 Eclipsed speed uses master headshot on yerry kraine for 476 points of damage!
01:06:12 Eclipsed speed uses master headshot on yerry kraine for 210 points of damage!
01:06:13 Eclipsed speed uses master headshot on yerry kraine for 237 points of damage!

923 points of Mind damage in 4 SECONDS!!!

Still believe I'm full of it when I say that other classes can kill anything before the first tick of my poison? Do you have poison that can do 923 points of mind damage in 4 seconds? Do you even know of any poison that ticks that quickly?

That right there is the game I'm playing. If the players you know are incapable of doing that kind of damage, then maybe they need to learn to use their classes better

I just want to throw something into this mix. Does anyone know how autofire works (using the attack command everyone has)? Take your weapons damage multiply by 1.5 to figure it out. Next, 80% of that damage is applied to the pool you hit, then 10% is applied to each of the other pools. Thus, you simply attack with any weapon, including a cdef weapon, and any pool that has been reduced to 1 point, results in an incap no matter the armor or buffs. You'll always hit all pools for at least 1 damage. So, all this nerf is really doing is making you stay close enough to get one simple attack with a cdef to hit. If you have a CM/Doctor character, it's still possible to use a weapon with limited proficiency from the marksman tree, or beyond with the 47 skill points that remain to you.

So, just stick around to watch the HAM bar drop to 1, then attack, no specials needed. Instant incap. The only problem is staying alive long enough to attack and DB the enemy. You still had to DB them anyway right? Or does the mind poison last long enough to incap them three times. If so, that's overpowered. Throw one poison and the guys screwed. No way to heal while the CM can be running the other way? I do agree that if a poison can't be removed in a given time, it should kill you, but how do you get to a med center if you are getting incapped 10 seconds after you stand up. Just put a timer on the kill. If a poison hasyour mind pool at 1for say 5 minutes, it kills you. Anyone with a really deadly poison in them who can't make it to a doctor in 5 minutes would be dead, right?

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Kavedawg wrote:

CM's should be able to go head to head with commandos and bounty hunters and sometimes win, this change will make the CM loseALL of the time.

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Funny, just funny, also called pick up a rifle and headshot 1 can do high 100's all you need is what...1 point of damage is all?

1 point of damage. 1 point of damage. 1 point of damage.

Keep saying it enough and maybe you'll actually believe it, right?

Nobody can wait for the CM to move into range, pop a muon gold for the 500 point mind heal and shred said CM, right?

Nobody ever has their secondary stats buffed by a musician or muon so that when the CM moves in for that 1 point kill it might actually be quite a lot more than 1 point?

Any smart player (and I'm starting to think there are very few on these boards) can sucker another player in easily. If you are even the slightest bit adept at gauging a CM opponent based on the fluctuations in his range (i.e. when he's moving away, when he's closing in for kill)it's not very hard to be *oh my gosh* PREPARED for it.

I will still do very well in PvP even with these changes. I will find a way. There is always an advantage to be found for the fighter who prepares and plans in advance of combat. I'm more worried that there will be far more disease griefing because of this, leading to more nerfs very shortly.

I'm tired of trying to get anyone to see past one narrow little thought and encompass the ENTIRE picture of what's going on. It's this lack of vision that is creating new problems one by one. If ANYONE had taken the time to consider the full possibilities of the 5-minute grace timer from incap it would have been obvious that the incap-dance would be the result.

No, instead everybody goes nerf nerf nerf. Whine whine whine. Give us a quick and easy fix to make us feel better. And the Devs give in to it. And then everyone cries again when the fix turns out worse than the original problem.

In one month, maybe shorter, when whatever exploits/greifing tactics that come out of this change become apparent, remember your current lack of foresight. I will not feel pity for anyone who cries then. Nor will I feel any sympathy for CM's that meekly followed the herd like sheep now.

DEMAND real fixes to problems!!! DO NOT SETTLE for halfbaked propositions that do nothing to solve the actual problems and instead lead to new problems by their very nature.

If CM range is a problem then CAP IT! If incap-dance is a problem then remove poison after second incap. There can be actual SOLUTIONS to problems that make things better for everyone without taking away from a profession or opening the door to new problems.

Bender, yes i know that.I also got hit by a Flamer with 1440 Damage but i have armor. I have a Helm with 76%, not the best but also not bad. So Your Rifleman with his 1000 Damage in 4 Sec does 250 to me, if i dont use a Shieldgenerator. In this Time i am close enought to poisen the Rifleman, i come closer the rifelman starts running and must be lucky to hit me again.

Sure i also got a one hit Incapp buy a luky BH who done a headshot to me for 1200dmg with his LLC and i was not wearing my Helm, but that is okay for me. I have a god Chance in 1vs1 against every Class and often in large group fights my poisen makes the desission, the only thing i have to do toss my poisen one or twotimes and then stay alive long enought.

CM has a good Chance in PvP and is not underpowerd in 1vs1, ask the Master BH, Commandos i killed

They are Skilled to deal damage i am skilled to stay alive long enought till my poisen incapps them. If poisen cant incapp my target i have to stay alive long enought todo the final shot, thats more challenging then the incapp timer run i sometimes have, both are incapped who stands up first get the kill. In Group fights we are overpowerd imho, today i saw it again a HQ fight with arround 15 vs 20, i could aply my poisen (2-3 trys to get them all)was incapped and then i saw them incapping in a row, a group member made 15 Deathblows in a minute because of the poisen. Without Poisen we had lost badly.

In PvE we suck, thats true i never usepoisen or diesacein PvE because its useless. Only if i help people to lvl unarmd i use it. The DOT Changes dont change anything in this, it will still be useless. Maybe with the fixed Schematics and expiremtation i can see a little improvement, but i dont think it will come close to my Fan Shot from Pistoleer who does avg. 1000 dmg per sec on multible Targets.

btw. i am Master CM, Doc 2-4-3-0, Pistoleer 0-0-4-1 so i also have a close range Knockdown witch often gives me additional time i need to win.

Oops! Forgot about ranged support requirement. I guess that only leaves you with 18 skill points if you master doctor and CM, still enough for an entire weapons line in marksman.

Also, I don't think CM's should be totally defenseless agains commandos and BH's, but they should lose most of the time. The BH or Commando isn'tlikely to last long after that with a poison in his blood if you're in a real firefight, but one on one, the win should mostly go to the BH or Commando. So, now unless you last long enough to get an attack in after their mind has been reduced to 1, you're done for. It's tough, but if you're good, not impossible.

A CM is really only maybe 1/4 combat oriented. Most of your skills are in healing. A 50/50 shot at killing a Commando or BH, who is totally combat oriented, one on one is really too much to ask. A good combat medic is INVALUABLE in a fight for his/her ranged healing abilities, not for their combat abilities. I think this is the real strength in your profession, and many are enormously grateful for it. How many of you actually do get to kill with poisons anyway. If you're in a group, your other combatants probably get the kills by putting down enemies you poisoned. I could be wrong though. Feel free to correct my assumptions here.

Back to the topic.

The +1 Incapp thinkfix the PvE Problems only if you are hunting alone and dont have any other weapon skill. I think thats not worth theother issues.

The real solution imhomust be: Calculate the Damge dealt from Dots like every other damge, increase the Poisen dmg up to 1600 per Tick (best possible poisen) and bring ina 75% PvP reduce. Reduce the Area Effect of Poisen, the orginal Targat gets the full effect and the other get a lesser effect based on distance to the original Target and/or bring in some Poisen Protection that can reduce the effect, like armor. Maybe as clothing attachments or Armor Layer.

Veldo, thanks for taking the time to at least discuss this rationally Rather than so many who come in here screaming nerf. It's nice to know that maybe someone might actually listen a little. I've listened to the pro-side, and can see why you all feel the way you do. I just don't think many have thought it completely through.

One comment in your post there I've responded to many times so I'm just going to cut/past my response to it. I'm so tired of typing the same thing over and over, lol.

On the concept of Skill Point Usage and BH's being Combat-oriented while CM's are not :

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Who should be more powerful, a Commando or a BH?

Based on the Skill Point (tm) argument everyone will agree that it should be BH. But using the farcical idea of combat/noncombat skills required it can be discovered that the Commando should be the lord of all combat.

A Commando spends ALL 169 points on COMBAT skills. period.

A BH, however, spends 126 points on combat skills. 91 points are spent on Scout (non-combat) and Investigation.

To make a further point everyone who brings up this argument is missing. EVERY single tree in the Combat Medic profession is COMBAT-RELATED. Why? Because every one of those trees allows us to either make better poison/disease, have a better range with them, throw them faster, give us the ability to use stronger poison/disease, and also make the effect much stronger.

If Bounty Pistol Spec III is considered a combat skill when all it does is make a BH faster and more accurate with a pistol, then Expert Ranged Speed is a combat skill since it lets me throw my poison faster.

Therefore, a Master CM has spent 91 Skill Points on Combat related skills. As much as any pistoleer/rifleman/carbineer. Further, we are required just like a BH to take 77 points in a non-combat profession.

Yes, we do get the healing benefits for taking Master Medic. A BH also gets the wilderness benefits of taking Master Scout. If a BH is allowed to say that Master Scout is worthless and has no bearing on how strong their class should be then we likewise should be able to say that Master Medic is worthless and has no bearing on how strong we should be.

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