Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM's and CU: Some Info
No, you will still be an effectivegroup combat healer as you will have the better range along with the point-blank area. You will still be a damaging toon along with a debuffer. CM will have its own crowd control ability outside of pistols according to the professions doc. You will not be the master nuker, no. But that is about balance. I am sorry if you feel that one toon should have been able to be master healer and master nuker, but I have to disagree. That is not very balanced. Everything should have tradeoffs, and there are no tradeoffs there.
Doctors are already the best combat healers. Even in today's game, if you wanted to be the master combat healer you took MCM/MD or at least MDfor the fire suppression, poison/disease heals, state heals, and rez. Think about why there are so many MD/TKA combos (like myself, admittedly)- because point-blank stim E's are the best, because state heals are very important to keep you or your group from flopping around like fish due to dizzy/state change, because poison/disease buffs/cures are the bomb, and a litte rez every now and then will make for some good group times. Because of these abilities, MD has always been a better healer.Well,at least starting when firesuppression was added. And so in this case,CM isnot actually changing at all. Or at least shouldn't be changing. We'll see now that elite profs are available to test.
Direct damage output will be decreased to be supplemented with indirect damage output as the result of debuffs along with that pistol cert. Debuffs also take the role of crowd control. Armor certs and armor effect mitigationare being added along with defensive modifiers to help keep you alive longer. Not sure if I saw if we are losing terrain negotation or not, but if we do, that would most definetly suck.
But no, your role, if there is a role for you these days as a combat healer, should not change. Except that you now have to do it without resources, Mr. Wizard ( yuck! ). As master nuker. Yeah, that is gonna change. You'll still be good, but not the best.
SeanBlader wrote:
I disagree. Our role use to be group combat healer and damage dealer, now it will be limited to debuffer (CM)and crowd control (pistols).
Brainplay wrote:
Our certs. and schems. are changing. Our role is not.
Doctors are going to be the group combat healers, with Swordsmen and Riflemen doing the damage.
bgm wrote:
Who is really stuck in the old system here?
Again, according to the doc, yes, MCM/MR ** will ** be a powerhouse damage dealer and would be even more so if allowed to master medic. Get over the "our only weapon is poison" thing. That is the old system. Sorry even reading the doc's I have a hard time understanding where you are coming from with your justifications considering that there are much more powerful damage dealer combo's than MCM/MR. But yet once again you are going off track again by thinking this is all about CM getting the ability to be master medics and riflemen.
People, or maybe just eveyone but you, see much more than the little blue "kewl" blob. Thanks to that HAM bar, they also see huge chunks of HAM disappear without firing a shot. Heck, half the time we see huge chunks of HAM disapper with the attacker sitting out at 70m just sitting there waiting. We keep griping thatthis game is becoming EQ/WoW, but I haven't seen that much kiting sinceplaying with my necro friends in EQ. Thankfully, we have more visual queues than just "a big sound and holes." Most of us actually watch the damage being done and themethods used. And that is how we can form opinions of what other toons can or should be able to do without playing it. And as long as it is offered constructively in the spirit of balance, and not just by whipping out the nerf bat, you shouldn't have a problem with that. Sorry last time I checked I was a CM not a doctor. I'm vulnerable to poison, disease, and fire as much as the next guy. The 70m is either a poor reference to the old throw ranges or your inability to catch the CM. Thats a combat skill issue that you need to look into working on, not using as a debate reference.I'll grant you some leeway there. Maybe you really are that attentive to how it all comes together. Unfortunately amajority tend to see what they want to see in the heat of battle and facts get warpedwhen taking damage and dying.
Yes, the base pistols do have a high dps, although this is a beta andso is subject to change. In fact, they all got pulled last night.Did any get respec'd?But the fact is that usinga pistolputs you in range of all of the other ranged combatants, and much closer toMr. Melee,so there is a risk/reward trade-off that you don't have as much with carb and may not experience at all with rifle. It will be much easier to kite with carb/riflethan it will be with pistol. It isn't just about dps now that weapons range also matters. Again, who's really stuck in the old system? Ihave only spoken of totaldamage, and in that realm, MCM/MR will bevery formidable. And if you think about it, that offensive rating for CM at 4 is probably not taking into account someone who does actually master medic. It is most likely just based on the base requirements for CM. If you master medic, and get that extra 20%, might that rating be a 5? The old system of "kiting" meant running in a straight line away from someone since any other direction would cause you to close the distance. The new system eliminates that need thanks to the new roots and snares. Pistols and stopping shot "roots" a person for a short amount of time while restraining shot "snares" them. You have more to fear of a pistoleer/MCM "kiting" than a MR/MCM kiting.Come to think of it I dont remember reading a single root/snare special in either the current doc or in the alpha's. As far as that nice number on the doc, well we'll get to really see if its going to live up to a 4 or not. Once again, there are many other template combo's that rate a 5/5/5 so trying to say that the pistols pre-req is all about restricting damage and other abilities is false.
Since you are talking as if you have done it, how are the specials for pistol as oppossed to rifle? I am assuming from the prof descriptions, and again I have not played it since it was only released to TC5 yesterday, that rifle specials are all aimed at increasing damage output whereas most if not all of the pistols specials are directed at crowd control. If this is so, don't be fooled by the dps ratings of the weapons. With my rifleman toon I spam strafe shot for more than just the arcade fun of mashing a button repeatedly. You're absolutely right. We'll now get to test dps accordingly. Your reference to dps is the reason why we have the pistols pre-req. is still in question.
If you chose to go carbine, you are out of range of pistols and melee. If you choose to go rifle, you are out of range of everyone but other rifleman. Don't think that is important? Take a gunboat/corvette face-on and consider this as it pounds you from 1k out. Better yet, wait to fire only when you get within 200m of the gunboat. Oh heck, just sit there at 1k and contemplate the obvious wondering why your targeting lead is not activated. Range matters. Of course it matters and thats a new issue thats going to come into combat play. You'll notice that the further the range of the profession the less crowd control ability there it. Crowd control is the same thing as position control. Pistoleers and smugglers get "snare" and "root" people to keep them in their range or away from them. Riflemen dont have those abilities. They get high damage specials only. Gone are the flurry2/suppresionfire days I used often in pvp. If I'm out of the range of everyone but rifleman do I think its important? No. Frankly that applies to everyone who will have to make their choice on what ranges they want. Thats a rifleman issue not a CM issue. This has nothing to do with the pistols pre-req.
And yes, you can probably go all of those other professions and still hit a 9 or more for offense. If I get a chance, I will hit thebeta char builder, look at all of the profs that can be mastered together, and see what the combined offensive scoreis. But, and here is the part you continue to miss, there is a tradeoff. They cannot doall of thatand be able to heal themselveslike a CM can. And I don't believe they will have access to the same number or intensity of dots/debuffs a CM has. It is all about balance! And it is this tradeoff which is potentially the justification the devs are using for requiring pistols. Well considering the overlap in professions and abilities the balance is still a bit skewed.But as to your healing reference its all up to their choice in the matter as it has been in the past. The can go ultimate dps and ultimate defenses with a little healing or the other way around. We wont even go into InstaStim's. The ability overlap alone lightens the weight of your debate to whether dps plays a major concern in the CM pistols pre-req. Picking up enough of a marksman or rifleman tree to get a 65m weapon and enough pistols to get stopping shot is going to be a popular combo for many melee. I'll get back to you on the "intensity" of our poisons and debuffs. However, if it was anything like in the past then they have little to worry about. Weapons outclassed poisons in dps even with armor. And no more unhealable MIND damage either (thank god).
And I still will reiterate - you do not play in a vacuum. What you do can and does affect the play and enjoyment of those around you as their play affects you. So those that play along side you, those who are impacted by your play, have just as much reason to speak as you do. And as long as the opinions given are constructive, there is no reason not to accept them. And if there are points they have missed, you educate them. Nicely. Ths is howobjective discussion works. I am not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but I still like the lesson in the Judeo-Christian story ofJob where the young man, after being rebuked by his elders for not have enough years under his belt to give good advice, fires back that wisdom is not a product of age but a gift to respected on its own merits. In a similar manner, anyone with a constructive opinion should be considered equally as, again, they give the other side view that allows for objective decisions. But it does not appear you are concerned about being objective. It does not appear you are concerned about how CM fits into the game as a whole. Wisdom is a product of experience and application which is why the "elders" told Job to stfuNoob.Wanting the change to the marksman pre-req. has been statedin asmany objective reasons as anyone can think.
You still continue to trudge on under the premise that you should be able to play this game any way you want and everyone else be darned. Where the heck did you get that idea? You are not playing KOTOR with chat. It isn't about what works ** for you **. And it isn't about just what works ** for CMs **. It is about what works for you and CMs in this game with everyone else.No one has to play MD, MCM, or TK or any other profession to know how they impact the rest of the game. Soif you are a BH, Commando, or other prof and see someone outdamaging you from range, being able to do damagevia dots from outside range, being able to do damage regardless of any resiststhe targets armor might have,andbeing able to heal themselves of damage, and wounds - there is plenty right there to have a very informed opinionof howCM affects the game. Andby doing so they have a very valid opinion about what CM should or should not be able to do. Iknow this as my BH buddy continues to tell me how it isn't fair that I can do more damage with my fist as TKA than he can do with alightning cannon. As he might say, "It's freakin' lightning!!!!" So even without ever playinga TKA, he has a very, very valid point.He knows "the game mechanics" just fine. And that doesn't even take into consideration that I can do all of that while healing myself in-fight andhealing my wounds between fights. None of what you're saying there is valid nor is what you're saying here objective. You've got an opinion. Thats nice....
But if you need further education, I am pretty sure there have been lots of folks throughout history who felt that decisions that impacteveryone should really only be made by the priveledged few. Your elitist socities have existed in many incarnations, so there are plenty of examples for you to go by. Too bad you have to go and ruin it with this elitist mentality. Sorry but unlike RL blood-caste elitist societies it takes alot of hard work and dedication to a profession to be an elitist in this game. If thats the case then I'm an elitist :smileyhappy:
I'll try togive you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are bitter, as I once was, about defending being an MCM from everyone. But then the "Poison Wars" started, and my eyes were opened, and I started looking at this from their point of view as well as my own. Most of us were hoping the smuggler spice would have been implemented. Alot of us were overjoyed when resists and area cures (which should have been ours) were introduced. This is old skool. At what point are you going to get back on track about the pistol tree pre-reqs. for CM?
Honestly, in a group game, what is a support role? If your definition of support role is that of anon-damage-dealing toon, then only Doctors fall into that category as CM will have dot "spells" as well as be responsible for a certainpercentage of every hit from every other toon due to the debuffs. Add in the armor cert, and even without the weapon cert we are still not just a "support role." Huh? Sorry but you got me confused with someone else there bud. All of skills as a CM are healing or damage support. They aren't the main dps and never were. We "owned" in the old days because of a flawed system that allowed a pool to be attacked but not healed. That has been corrected.
And actually, yes, our role is changing **** big time *****. OMG, how can you think our role isn't changing? Although I grant you might be one of the folks who still goes out with an party to keep them alive, you are certainly in the minority. CM today is not the role of a healer but of a long-range nuker.That is why most of my friends quit this game when it changed to "Poison Wars." If what has been proposed actually makes it to live, we will still be a damage dealer, and that is fantastic, but we will also be crowd control and be needed as healers again. That so far sounds like a pretty rich toon type, butwe'll have to see now that elites are available for testing. If nothing else, they are forcing us to change as I believe medical xp can now only begotten ingroup in combat andthen only once the mobis killed. That, my friend, is a huge change. Oh, and have you forgotten we now get crowd control? You don't consider that a change to our role? Yeah the crowd control is nice. Too bad its point blank and of very limited use. Maybe if it didn't break at 1pt. of damage. Thats the only real change. We are not a nuker, we are a low dps damage supporter. We've always been needed as healers and in the DWB or base take downs we've been needed even more. Is my role changing? I'll concede to the limited crowd control. The rest? Nope its the exact same thing. Sooo Job, been doing much as a CM lately? I'll be happy to give you some real tips.
And I do sympathize with all of those who are going to loss those legendary weapons. But don't come in here berating someone for not being "qualified" to have an opinion because "you are not in the mood." Your mood doesn't play into it. And as long as they pay there $15 to keep my server running, they are welcome to an opinion on how what I do impacts their game. Actually according to the dev's if you have an "uber l337" krayted/acklay NS dropped weapon its going to still be "uber l337" in the game. Oh and all of those enhancers are staying in game. Cheers
If someone walks into a geologist seminar to give a lecture. You dont open up by telling them your entire geological experience was a rock collection you used to have in a ziplock bag when you were 5. You're welcome to have an uneducated opinion. We'll still tell you to go get an education.
And just as a final note, many "professional combatants" chose to carry shotguns into combat. Not as a primary ranged weapon, mind you, but nothing beats it in close-quarters combat. That is why there are combat assault shotguns in most government arsenals, and yes, some of those even get modded to the sawed-off variety. For a personalexample, I will never forget the business trip I was sent on to El Salvador. Beautiful country, great people - loved it -but all of the guards at the bank I was working at were armed with shotguns slung forward ready to just kip up and fire.And in those confined spaces, they would have been very effective at taking out the target. And everyone else. So it is not a crappy combat weapon when used in the correct situation. Perhaps it is the fact that you don't understand this, the proper use of a weapon/ability in the propercircumstances,that is causing you all of this griefin understandingthe new system. You're stuck on the "poison is my only damage" mentality of the old system. Things, they are a'changin...Blah blah blah. Of course you overlooked the entire jist of the message as well as everything else. Double barrel vs. assualt shotgun. Handled both. Have blown off locks and taken rooms with one. Double barrel sawed off still a crappy weapon. I can go into the whole "mechanics" of why but you've already wasted several paragraphs flaming me on this stuff and I dont feel like wasting anymore of anyones time. Still wondering where you got the whole "poison is my only damage" idea from. Never intended or made that reference.
Lookey lookey! Someone pays attention to what I write! 
Well sorta....ok maybe not much. 
But I got flamed with alot of paragraphs! 
This is better than when I threated Texxie to post pics of me in hawtpants. 
Thank you for the note about the pistols requirement. Ok, I can see that. Although I can still see someone thinking along the same lines I did due to all of the complaints garnered by the current system. So pistols 4 was due to the pistols cert.Then I ask - why a pistol cert? Why not a carb cert with a carb requirement? Why not a rifle cert with the rifle requirement? Is it just because of perception that medics only carry pistols? I think it has already been established that in RL medics use carbines and other non-pistol weapons. It may yet still tie back to the same reason. For whatever reason, it still seems to me to elegantly tie back into balance. Again, my opinion.
As to the range, my view is this.If youhave carb/rifle, you run up to whatever the CM dot range is, toss dot, then run back to whateverrifle/carb range and continue your attack while minimizing your exposure to counter-attack. Surely you all did this in the early days when none of the named resources where spawning or, if they did, they were garbage. Even if CM is a much smaller range, you still minimize your risk by being able to run up, throw the dot/debuff, then run back while still maintaining maximum damage potential. By requiring pistols, you pretty much have to stay in a 35m range to continue to do damage if you want to be full MCM. If you don't, then sure, sit back at 50m/65m, but your dot won't hit as hard. It is the kind of tradeoff I would expect from this CU. Where I am trying to go here is to think in combinations. Not thinking about just what a CM can do and what a CM range is. And not just what a carb or rifle can do and what their range is. But instead thinking about the combinations are, to see what MCM/MR, MCM/MCarb, or MCM/MPistol can do and at what ranges. And in considering the combinations, that is why I feel this way.
In other words,beinga MCM/MRdoes not add to the range of a single CM toss. So for an instant of time, being rifle does not mean I can toss any any farther, true. But when you consider the damage potential over time of a MCM/MR combo, then yes, very much so the combo affects what range that toon combo can sustain attacks from. Being MCM/MR means that with a little work and intelligence, picking the right times to run up, toss, and run back, I can sustain high dps mostly from 65m, minimizing my vulnerability while maintaining maximum dps.And that is only really challenging in solo play as, with group play andall of those distractions, it is cake. And of course, while back at that 65m mark, I can heal myself more quickly and much more effectively than with an InstaStim or with novice medic. It wouldn't be that way if we didn't have dotsor lasting debuffs, but my understanding is that we will.If they were just a one-tickwonder, then sure, no worries there. But they last over time, soI think it does matter.For total killing power, the increased range of aMR/MCarb still makes a big difference to how the combos can deal damage.
Obata wrote:
bgm wrote:
Edit: I have gone back and re-read, and most/all of the answers I have seen dealing with skill points have had one answer: move to ranged 4. Ok, there was one saying that CM should have negative modifiers, but can you imagine the amount of complaining that would incite? Unfortunately, that does not deal with the potential reasons it may not currently bein ranged 4. Specifically
1.the devs may have felt full MCM/MR was too powerful as a nuker ( if you just add the offensive ratings: rifle(5) and CM(4) is a 9 and pretty darn high ). Sorry to say, but that is a pretty popular opinion with some folks. The way they have it, you can still be MCM/MR, but not full MCM. Or you can be full MCM, but not full rifleman. Support or nuke? I know it ain't pretty, just like the TKA requirement to take a weapon tree just to try to keep the triple elite combos off the blocks. It ain't pretty, but it works while still keeping the current mechanics.
2. the devs may have wanted to get CMs within striking distance of other classes instead of being able to attack from extreme range. Maybe no more poison kiting,who knows. And yes, 35m is still at range. That is still a decent distance to toss anything with pinpoint accuracy.
These are both reasonable theories, but they're off the mark. I specifically asked about the pistols 4 requirement before this stuff was made public as I thought it might have been an error. It was explained to me that the requirement changed because of the pistol certification that was added to CM.
To address your second theory a little more, it really doesn'y make any sense. The effective range of CM skills is not determined by the CM's other skills.Being a CM/Rifleman does not add to the range of the CM attacks.If a CM/Rifleman can't hit you with his poisons and diseases from Rifle range, then he still has to be at a closer range before his CM skills come into play. Therefore, the prereqs have nothing to do with "poison kiting".
Message Edited by bgm on 04-08-2005 03:19 PM
Message Edited by bgm on 04-08-2005 03:22 PM
Message Edited by bgm on 04-08-2005 04:37 PM
bgm wrote:
Thank you for the note about the pistols requirement. Ok, I can see that. Although I can still see someone thinking along the same lines I did due to all of the complaints garnered by the current system. So pistols 4 was due to the pistols cert.Then I ask - why a pistol cert? Why not a carb cert with a carb requirement? Why not a rifle cert with the rifle requirement? Is it just because of perception that medics only carry pistols? I think it has already been established that in RL medics use carbines and other non-pistol weapons. It may yet still tie back to the same reason. For whatever reason, it still seems to me to elegantly tie back into balance. Again, my opinion.
Yeah...uhm. It wasn't a 'balance' reason.
So sayeth the Blix, so it shall be done:
vortexala wrote:
bgm wrote:
Thank you for the note about the pistols requirement. Ok, I can see that. Although I can still see someone thinking along the same lines I did due to all of the complaints garnered by the current system. So pistols 4 was due to the pistols cert.Then I ask - why a pistol cert? Why not a carb cert with a carb requirement? Why not a rifle cert with the rifle requirement? Is it just because of perception that medics only carry pistols? I think it has already been established that in RL medics use carbines and other non-pistol weapons. It may yet still tie back to the same reason. For whatever reason, it still seems to me to elegantly tie back into balance. Again, my opinion.
Yeah...uhm. It wasn't a 'balance' reason.
So sayeth the Blix, so it shall be done:
Blixtev wrote:
Changed to Range Support.
bgm wrote:
Edit: I have gone back and re-read, and most/all of the answers I have seen dealing with skill points have had one answer: move to ranged 4. Ok, there was one saying that CM should have negative modifiers, but can you imagine the amount of complaining that would incite? Unfortunately, that does not deal with the potential reasons it may not currently bein ranged 4. Specifically
1.the devs may have felt full MCM/MR was too powerful as a nuker ( if you just add the offensive ratings: rifle(5) and CM(4) is a 9 and pretty darn high ). Sorry to say, but that is a pretty popular opinion with some folks. The way they have it, you can still be MCM/MR, but not full MCM. Or you can be full MCM, but not full rifleman. Support or nuke? I know it ain't pretty, just like the TKA requirement to take a weapon tree just to try to keep the triple elite combos off the blocks. It ain't pretty, but it works while still keeping the current mechanics.
2. the devs may have wanted to get CMs within striking distance of other classes instead of being able to attack from extreme range. Maybe no more poison kiting,who knows. And yes, 35m is still at range. That is still a decent distance to toss anything with pinpoint accuracy.
These are both reasonable theories, but they're off the mark. I specifically asked about the pistols 4 requirement before this stuff was made public as I thought it might have been an error. It was explained to me that the requirement changed because of the pistol certification that was added to CM.
To address your second theory a little more, it really doesn'y make any sense. The effective range of CM skills is not determined by the CM's other skills.Being a CM/Rifleman does not add to the range of the CM attacks.If a CM/Rifleman can't hit you with his poisons and diseases from Rifle range, then he still has to be at a closer range before his CM skills come into play. Therefore, the prereqs have nothing to do with "poison kiting".
Yes, the elders did tell the n00b to shut up. Then Job told the elders to shut up. Then** God ** told the elders to shut up.I believe the quote I remember was "where were you when I created the whirlwind" Sorry, it is an educated reference that I should have explained better.
And yes, yes, yesmy point exactly is that I believe the reason this is being done is specifically to limit the MCM/MR damage-dealing potential. Ihaven't reallydenied that. I think my quote was "it borks the carbs, but how else do you address it ( and still address what I feel is the key reason they are doing this )" Soit isn't off-track at all as any intelligent person, before complaining or screaming, should ask "why?" Why are they doing this. My intent, other than to address your exclusionary attitude,was to discuss **why** it was being done. It is only "off-base" if all you want to do is complain, if all you care about is your playstyle and not how that playstyle is impacting the game. I understand it is going to be hard to give up the self-sufficient uber-nuker. But I gotta tell you, I think it is in the best interest of the game. Besides, as a CM you are already going to attract enough hate, yes? Why would you want more due to the nuking?
The way I look at the docs, with the full nuker ability of MR and the full damage output of a CM plus the full self-healing abilities of a CM, pound-for-pound the MCM/MR would still be one of the most potent ifnot the most potentdamage dealers in the system. And it is good not to talk about InstaStims, because they are not anywhere in the same class as what a CM can do.10% at most, with a wicked cooldown, right? That means a max of 300, yes. There arealready NPC mobs on TC5 doing muchmore damage than that per round. Heck, thebabyzucca boar was hitting for 6k alone! Unless you only go up against single mobs, you ability to inflict damage is also dependent on your ability to survive. Again, that is where the balance comes in.
The templates that rate 5/5/5 - that would be balance, wouldn't it? I am ** all ** for that. That would be great!!! Bring on allthe 5/5/5 combos you can muster! It is the ones that add up to 5 all pools but 9 for offense that would seem to be unbalanced, don't you think? In fact, when I looked at it MCM/MP ended with everything just around 5-7 I think. So again, saying that is being done to restrict damage output of someone who can also sustain him/herself in battle and throw dots/debuffs that the others won't haveis exactly the point and IMHO is dead on true.
And the "poision is my only weapon thing" comes up when you seem to dismiss debuffs as a weapon.They are still weapons, and I am not ready todismiss them as being useless as you seem to be able to. And dear God, yes, I certainly care about how CM fits into this game! That is why I am reading this board again, that is why I am grinding a CM on TC5, and that is why I will respec back to my CM when CU goes live. But do I think the full MCM/MR combo is balanced. No! Notnow before CU, andnot after CU should the full MCM/MR template be realized. And again, this is exactly why I feel they are doing this. Yes, it sucks when they restrict playstyles, but when it is done in interest of the health of the game, it has to be done. For the same reason they didn't let us be melee, for the same reason they have stuck with the 250 point skill cap, for the same reason they want to eliminate the triple elite profs - for the health and balance of this game.
Attack range is an issue with "all" professions. Sure, ok, make dots so they don't tick if you move outside of 35m, and yeah, ok, range ain't a CM issue. But as long as I can run up, throw my dot, and then scoot back to 65m to fire or 70m just to wait - range is an issue. It is all about the range at which a particular char type or combination of character types can do damage. And it seems obvious to me that the devs feel like for the damage output a CM will have, combined with the other abilities, that range should be limited as much as possible to 35m to make you more vulnerable to all our your potential targets. It surely is as simple as that. I imagine some dev said "hey, CM is still pretty darn powerful, how do we balance that." Then the other dev said "well, we either limit their potential as MCM/MR to scale that back a bit, or we make them move in closer so more of their targets can fire back."
But for me, please go ahead and re-iterate the objective reason(s) for wanting the pre-req changed back to ranged 4 beyond the one I have seen - because we want to be rifles or carbs. Because if that is all, then I have explained why I believe they don't want to allow that. Locking to pistols 4 limits your damage output as a rifle/carb/cm.And by making it pistol it brings you more in range of other to make you more vulnerable, which is also an indirect way of limiting your damage output ( as you cannot do damage while dead ). Even assuming pistol will have the same dps as rifles, which I doubt they will with specials, you are going to be much more likely to die as a pistoleer than rifle. You will be much more vulnerable. And this limits your dps potential, or at least the number of seconds you can deal damage.
To try to make it a simple point:herding to pistols will limit the damage potential of an MCM regardless of the base dps of the weapons involved. Either by not allowing full MCM with MCarb or MR, which limits damage potential as you won't have access to those specials or possibly the enhanced weapons, by limiting the full MR/MCarb to not-so-full MCM to reduce bio-suppression, or by forcing combat at 35m with a pistol with different specials and making you more vulnerable to death, also limiting your damage potential. Either way, as pistol or non-pistol, your damage potential is reduced from what it would be if you could sit back at 50m or 65m and nuke away. And again, without further clarification from the devs, that is exactly my speculation on why the change was made. The change limits damage potential. And you and many other don't like that. And I understand that. But it doesn't change anything.
I never doubted for once your are an elite toon in the game. You are probably the biggest, baddest uber-nuker on the galaxies with the strongest poisons and best rifles. But it does not give your more voiceabout how the game should be balanced than anyone else, nor does it discredit anyone else because they don't have your experience at CM. Yes, I do have an opinion, and I am trying to be objective. Specifically, I am trying to understand and articulate why I believe the change was put into effect, what impact that has on balance of the game, and why your "fix"only serves to actually break the fix they are trying tomake. And beyond responding in kind to your original flame, I think I am alot closer to that objectivity than you.
Message Edited by bgm on 04-08-2005 04:45 PM
Roeding wrote:
So CM will be the Mages and the Docs the Priests in EverStarWarsQuest, awesome.
GraySeven wrote:
Roeding wrote:
So CM will be the Mages and the Docs the Priests in EverStarWarsQuest, awesome.
No, doc's are doc's and CM's are CM's. EQ is a fantasy game set in a world created by SOE, while SWG is a sci-fi game set in a world created by George Lucas. Just because games share engines (Gee, imagine, a company taking something that works and using it in other products they have....unbelieveable) or mechanics does not make them the same.
If you don't like it, shut up and leave, because you are not helping to make this game good, you are just whinning. You have input on how to make the game better, great, but if you're just going to whine like a baby, you aren't wanted here.
F-T-W wrote:
GraySeven wrote:
Roeding wrote:
So CM will be the Mages and the Docs the Priests in EverStarWarsQuest, awesome.
No, doc's are doc's and CM's are CM's. EQ is a fantasy game set in a world created by SOE, while SWG is a sci-fi game set in a world created by George Lucas. Just because games share engines (Gee, imagine, a company taking something that works and using it in other products they have....unbelieveable) or mechanics does not make them the same.
If you don't like it, shut up and leave, because you are not helping to make this game good, you are just whinning. You have input on how to make the game better, great, but if you're just going to whine like a baby, you aren't wanted here.
How pompus can you be dude. Everyone's entitled to his or her opinion, and if you think SoE's attitude is "if you don't like it leave" than you're a fool - why are they asking for our input on stuff if they're just going to fore feed us whatever the want?
Try shutting up for a second and listening to everyone's concerns instead of trying to only hear positive comments and mute naysayers. This isn't George Orwell's 1984 - we're free to express our thoughts and opinions as we see fit. I'll start - you're a SoE fanboi who needs to get a grip and check out what these changes are doing to our profession. You're also rude, and trying to turn a discussion thread into a flame fest.
See how easy it is!
IF you want to give constructive feedback, do so. Making a statement like the one I quoted is not constructive feedback, nor is it accurate. I'm more than williing to discuss concerns, but grow tired and weary of everyone automatically pulling out the "like EQ2" phrase everytime they see something they don't like.
Feel free to express you're opinion, just stop whinning and give constructive criticism instead. And while SOE may listen to suggestions, they WILL ignore comments like the one I quoted simply because they do nothing. I'm not being pompus, I'm being realistic. You have a problem with something, fine, but tell us what the problem is and what you think will fix it instead of just ranting and raving and using tired phrases like "just like EQ2". Of course its like EQ2. When a company has something that works, they tend to use it and the combat system for EQ2 is much, much better than the garbage we have now. So, they have to shoehorn SWG professions into that engine, and while you may see a resemblance to aspects of EQ2, this is still SWG.
And fanboy is the last thing I am. I've spent far more time criticizing than praising, but in the CU they finally got something mostly right. Its up to the players and forum posters to insure they get it all the way right, something the original quote does NOT do.