Combat Medic Archive

Thread: Why we did not get 75% Reduction:

Omegafield
Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:37 am
#1





I had posted this on a thread which has been deleted for unknown reasons. I want to hear what other CM think of this issue.


Poisons and Disease did not get the 75% reduction in pvp because they are coded as medical Stim packs.



This seems a huge issue in the game. Why were offensive weapons coded the same as items which heal your allies? The 75% reduction will not go into effect for CM until the devs recode poison and disease packs.

If they granted the 75%reduction then stim packs would receive it also.


I find it funny that a CM can grind all the way through to master without using a single poison. All the xp required for CM is medical, the same as a doctor. Perhaps the devs could revamp the CM to make the Ranged Healing Speedtree require poison/disease use xp. After all the title at Master Ranged Healing Speedis Chemical Warfare Expert.







~¨*·.. ..·*¨~
Aleor Arqea/Aleon -THC- Shadowfire
Ambe on Mal'Ganis in WoW
~~·¨* *¨·~~
A woman who knows her mind is a powerful force


Pahdbacca
Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:20 pm
#2


The reason CMs did not 'get' the 75% PvP damage reduction is because they do so little damage to begin with. The Devs have flat out stated that they are comfortable with the amount of damage that medical DoTs do.


The issue concerning a 75% reduction has nothing to do with how medical DoTs are coded.


It is my experience that these boards are filled with people who make stuff up or use fudge numbers so often that they think the fudged numbers are real and begin to fudge those. There is another group that thinks if they bring up that CMs are getting a 75% reduction often enough that it will happen.


Many posts that state CMs are getting a 75% reduction are deleted by mods after being reported as rumor-spreading and/or trolling.


The issues with CMs right now are not that they do too much damage, but that they can damage the mind pool. Same with riflemen.


Texxie will let us know if the Devs decide that CMs do too much damage because it is something that is very important to the CM community.


Until you hear from a poster with a red name or Texxie that CMs are getting a PvP reduction, they are talking out of their booty, if you get what I mean.


Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 03-22-2004 02:23 PM



-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
HeadRoll
Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:49 pm
#3

Exactly


You can get CM xp just by healing people with normal stims running a tumble to stand macro and fill up every single CM box cept Crafting in under 3 hours easy.


This tells you CM and Doctor code runs under the same ruleset.


They nerf poisons with the pvp reduction, the Doctors will be hit hard in terms of buffs and heals also.


Anyone who thinks SOE <intentionally> left you guys out of the PVP reduction Nerf other then this reason are idiots.






RhenGordon
Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:14 pm
#4





HeadRoll wrote:

Exactly


You can get CM xp just by healing people with normal stims running a tumble to stand macro and fill up every single CM box cept Crafting in under 3 hours easy.


This tells you CM and Doctor code runs under the same ruleset.


They nerf poisons with the pvp reduction, the Doctors will be hit hard in terms of buffs and heals also.


Anyone who thinks SOE INTENTIONALLY left you guys out of the PVP reduction Nerf other then this reason are idiots.









Actually, the devs have said that Combat Medic poison and disease is balanced and no changes are coming. So that should tell you that they believe that we are just fine.


Look, if you lowered our damage 75% then effectively all poison would do is keep you from healing your damage on your own. What do I mean? Well a fully buffed player could effectively regenerate faster than one of my advanced poisons could damage you. I do not have the exact numbers on regeneration rates, but I do have some numbers on my poisons.


Take for instance the best poison I can make now. All advanced components with rarer than rare resources and it will tick for 570 points of damage. Since it is 10 seconds between ticks, we can divide 570 by ten and we get 57 points of damage every second.


Now lets apply 75% damage reduction to that. 75% from 57 equals right around 15 points of damage every second.


Now you see the reason we have not been given 75% reduction. That amount of damage in my opinion, as well as many other peoples opinions would be worthless. It has nothing to do with whether the packs are rated as medical or not. It is plainly a case of not enough damage being done period.




>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anti-Thug
Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:20 pm
#5

The only thing that really got the nerf cries going anyway were the uber power spider venoms. Most of the people that cried nerf had never even experienced 1200 tick poison..they just heard or read about it. Your standard 485 a tick area poison doesn't scare anyone. With everyone running about with 1000 mind + 2 brandies + plus dance buff + music buff.....equals them healing faster than my poison can take it away.



____Jaylando_________________________________________
RESPECJEDI APPRENTICE

Pimpin' In Space, Yo! -- I am Evil....I am.....Sith!
Changed my mind...the NGE Sucks AND SOE threw the VETS Under the bus....CANCELLED!
RhenGordon
Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:32 pm
#6






Anti-Thug wrote:
The only thing that really got the nerf cries going anyway were the uber power spider venoms. Most of the people that cried nerf had never even experienced 1200 tick poison..they just heard or read about it. Your standard 485 a tick area poison doesn't scare anyone. With everyone running about with 1000 mind + 2 brandies + plus dance buff + music buff.....equals them healing faster than my poison can take it away.





You are absolutely incorrect.


These nerf calls have been going strong long long long before the venom ever was on the site picture. The venom might have instensified the screams, but they have always been there.


The thing is I know many CMs that think Venom poison is too powerful. Many felt that we were good where we were, perhaps if they had incap back in we would beperfect , but after all the many months of crying we have put up with so far we are not ready to give any quarter to anyone.


The bottom line, is this post is incorrect. You can find any number of posts on the boards that started way way way before spider venom was ever introduced.





>~~~~~~~ Rhen Gordon Master Combat Medic / Master Doctor ~~~~~~~
Ahazi Server
Selling Doctor and Combat Medic Medicines.
I am located on Naboo in the city of Lake Destiny not far from Keren.
Look me up on the planetary map, or look for Lakeside General on the map.
NOW ALSO ON CORELLIA NEAR CORONET, LOOK FOR ME ON THE MAP!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hatebird
Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:26 pm
#7

WAH WAH WAH deal with it.. seriously

if devs didnt put it on then it was not meant to be





Vadian Dath

Master of stuff . .
-force sensitive-

Pahdbacca
Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:32 pm
#8






Omegafield wrote:




I am not stating that we are getting a 75% reduction. I am stating my opinion about why we did not get one.


I am not stating as opinion...I am stating as a fact...told to my self....as a correspondent...to post on these forums....that the devs though that the DAMGAGE of medical DoTs was balanced (i.e. meaning there would be no 75% PvP reduction)...That is why there was no PvP reduction. They then stated that they were looking into fixing range if it was unbalanced. I told them in the same thread that it was imbalanced, along with LOS, Z axis and throwing through walls. I also told them at the time that while DoT range never got brought into the 64m range, healing stim range was nerfed...painfully so because we have no healing range component that can be experimented for distance.







Texxie will let us know if any changes are coming. Until then, speculation is just that....speculation.


Half the problem with all the trolling going on with CMs is all the misinformation that is spread about CMs. Please do not contribute to misinformation. Non-CMs will come into these forums, read your post, and think that a 75% reduction would have happened except they hadn't worked out the coding yet...which is not true. Unless something has changed in the last month and a half, Devs think the damage is in-line...if they change their mind, Texxie will let us know as soon as possible.





-----------------------------------------
Pip Tazo = Master Doc / Swordsman - Always the CM at heart
Zhose U'nare = Master Smuggler / Pistoleer - resource hound

Former CM correspondent - Member of Team Black Bar
" If you're dependant on venom to be effective than you're doing something wrong." - Obata
XingYuen
Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:17 am
#9

There are a lot of different opinions on this topic. None of them are necassarily right or wrong. They're just opinions. Mine:


75% damage reduction alone is not the answer to the CM problem in PvP. There are a lot of bugs that need to be addressed before you can even begin working on actual balance issues. The range bug, line of site problems, etc. should all be corrected before really looking at the raw damage poison does. A single target poison is not very damaging by itself, at least compared to some other combat professions is the common complaint given by Combat Medics. They never tend to mention that there is armor, damage mitigation, defenses, and resists involved though for the other combat profession where their attack is uneffected by it. At the same time, no other combat profession's damage can be 100% removed likea CM by a doctor.


My opinion here is on neither side of the fence. My only effort is to get people to seek out and actually contribute to the community with ways to help the situation, not just cry for nerfs. No profession wants to be nerfed and I don't think any profession deserves it. Many Combat Medics get very defensive when addressed as overpowered. Their profession is flawed, not overpowered. It needs fixed, not nerfed.




Xing Yuen

Omegafield
Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:32 am
#10




I am not stating that we are getting a 75% reduction. I am stating my opinion about why we did not get one.


As for fudging numbers, I have not stated any, but I will now:


I crafted an aoe poison that I CAN throw 92 meters. With the aoe being 18, I did hit someone at 110 meters from me. No the poison was not overly strong. But the point is that I could even throw 92 meters to begin with.(I tested this on guildmate/pet one evening in game)


I did once hear a rumor that our range was getting capped at 64 meters to be more in line with other profesions. I have no idea if that one was true or not. I can and do still throw far beyond that. Is this issue a bug?


I just believe that the devs need to take another look at the CM proffesion as a whole. And do a revamp similar to the CH revamp. I think they need to add in the poison and disease xp tree. If Combat Medic is such anoffensive class, the xp required for it should not just be all medical.



~¨*·.. ..·*¨~
Aleor Arqea/Aleon -THC- Shadowfire
Ambe on Mal'Ganis in WoW
~~·¨* *¨·~~
A woman who knows her mind is a powerful force


Omegafield
Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:36 am
#11





I am not stating that we are getting a 75% reduction. I am stating my opinion about why we did not get one.


As for fudging numbers, I have not stated any, but I will now:


I crafted an aoe poison that I CAN throw 92 meters. With the aoe being 18, I did hit someone at 110 meters from me. No the poison was not overly strong. But the point is that I could even throw 92 meters to begin with.(I tested this on guildmates one evening in game)


I did once hear a rumor that our range was getting capped at 64 meters to be more in line with other profesions. I have no idea if that one was true or not. I can and do still throw far beyond that. Is this issue a bug?


I just believe that the devs need to take another look at the CM proffesion as a whole. And do a revamp similar to the CH revamp. I think they need to add in the poison and disease xp tree. If Combat Medic is such anoffensive class, the xp required for it should not just be all medical.



~¨*·.. ..·*¨~
Aleor Arqea/Aleon -THC- Shadowfire
Ambe on Mal'Ganis in WoW
~~·¨* *¨·~~
A woman who knows her mind is a powerful force


VTmoon
Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:29 am
#12






RhenGordon wrote:






Anti-Thug wrote:
The only thing that really got the nerf cries going anyway were the uber power spider venoms. Most of the people that cried nerf had never even experienced 1200 tick poison..they just heard or read about it. Your standard 485 a tick area poison doesn't scare anyone. With everyone running about with 1000 mind + 2 brandies + plus dance buff + music buff.....equals them healing faster than my poison can take it away.





You are absolutely incorrect.


These nerf calls have been going strong long long long before the venom ever was on the site picture. The venom might have instensified the screams, but they have always been there.


The thing is I know many CMs that think Venom poison is too powerful. Many felt that we were good where we were, perhaps if they had incap back in we would beperfect , but after all the many months of crying we have put up with so far we are not ready to give any quarter to anyone.


The bottom line, is this post is incorrect. You can find any number of posts on the boards that started way way way before spider venom was ever introduced.









Rhen jay has a point. We haven't seen a nerf yet because the devs are happy with our DPS. And the spider venom got nerfed because people herd about it and didn't even get hit with it. CMs are not very effective with a well prepared group now, if they are loaded on brandy and mind buffs an average CM with no uber resources can barely do anything to you before you kill him.




Mono Noke
.......:::: Proud ex-Leader of Oasis ::::.......
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- Bike Repair, Perfect LS Tools @ Crystal Oasis Dantooine, -4295 6915
WookieOgre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:09 am
#13






Pahdbacca wrote:


The reason CMs did not 'get' the 75% PvP damage reduction is because they do so little damage to begin with. The Devs have flat out stated that they are comfortable with the amount of damage that medical DoTs do.




Let me just say I hate when professions are nerfed however becareful when you say Devs have stated they are comfortable with the amount of damage your Dots do. I was a Commando once, I rememeber them specificly saying that Commandos were at the damage they were supposed to be at...including the flame dot. Then 2 months later we got nerfed, then nerfed again, then nerfed again. Just because they said they are comfortable one month doesn't mean the devs wont change their minds....kind of like fair weather fans lol. I hope they can implement ways to counter your posions/disease staking on individuals/groupsrather then nerfing you to a low dps, that way your not nerfed in PvP and PvE at the same time.

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