Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Petition to have StimB's relocated on the medic tree
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Brainplay
Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:45 am
#1
This post has nothing to do with poisons so any nerf cryers and trolls can click out now.
This is in response to multiple posts in the medic, doctor, and especially the Combat Medic forums. I will concentrate on the CM issues here though.
I am Keorythe. I'm a Master Combat Medic. I'm a healer. I'm a group gimick.
I have repeatedly heard people say how combat medics are strictly a SUPPORT profession even though we are gifted with offensive poisons in exchange for a higher number of required player points. I say NAY to that. My abilities as any sort of group support are not NEEDED in any way shape or form unless the group wants to concentrate all of its dps on a target. This is due to the fact that a simple doctor made small stimpack B has the ability to full heal an unbuffed player and mostly heal a buff player who's taking a great deal of damage. This is enhanced by bio-engineered injury/wound clothing that can be worn underneath armor (+17 shirts).StimB's as they are commonly known are available to anyone who spends 15 points to obtain novice medic. Every elite and hybrid profession allows you have have that many points left over to obtain novice medic. Only those that want to add to their offense or defense by working up another combat or artisan tree will be without this ability. This allow any NOVICE medic an incredible amount of healing potential. Too much in fact.
Example: I watched a master swordsman fully buffed take on a full health ATST. In the middle of the fight the swordsman was down to 1/3 health then suddenly was back up to 3/4+. He had used a 415power stimB on himself. After he finished bashing the ATST into scrap I reluctantly spoke with him and asked if he was a doc. No, he replied he only had novice medic. He walked off and meditated in a fountain afterwards.
He had plenty of mind during the fight to drop 3 or 4 more heals on himself while the armor and regenerating effects of the doctor buffs did the rest. Had he not been able to heal himself in such a large degree he would have lost.
So where do combat medics come in? Well we can heal from range! Wait they can heal themselves... We can heal an entire group! Wait, they can heal themselves fully.... But, but, but they wont have to use their mind as much to do it! So we sacrifice ours plus our doctor bought or gimpy made subcomponents in order to get paid the same amount as everyone else which of course will be spent on more subcomponents to do it over and over again.
More fun non used skills:
Drag incapacitated player: Available at diagnostic II. Unless mind incapped this is one of the few uses of ranged heal if their are no other players around to do it themselves (btw if you target a person you still fire at your original target until you execute an action on them. However specials wont go off) Either that or the developers decided it would be better for me to run into whatever incapped this person and drag them out to a safe place to be fully healed so they can run back and start fighting again instead of just getting a full heal from a stimB,C,D right where they dropped. Hmmm I'll have to think about it but I could have sworn everyone hada variation of thistype of ability at character creation. /drag
Healmind: This one actually has uses...if you're the self sacrificing type. As a zabrak I lose about 1/3 of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and take anywhere from 30-100 mind wounds each time I use it. As a human they lose 1/2 to 2/3's of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and the same wounds. The ability wont restrict you from doing it below your required amount but you'll become incapacitated if you do AND take some heavy wounds. You'll have the ability to use this once on another player that is if you haven't gone nuts spamming specials or spamming ranged stimB's or C's (is there really a need for D's and E's?). If a player hasn't already or is unable to pop a moun feel free to use.
I cant say what Sony had as its main focus for player characters. I dont know if they intended all combat characters to be able to be completely and utterly self sufficient while adventuring. I do know that report after report has come in ofkills being made thatshould have been unsoloable but were in fact soloed. I have heard of people being able to soloand duo their way through the new corvette missions. Ihave seencombat medics passed overfor doctors since doctors can revive a player and that is the only real ability that player characters want in pvp or tough areas.
Is it really too much to ask? I'd like to be invited to a corvette mission or pvp for something other than my poisons.......
I want decent feedback on this from others. Take your gay flames somewhere else.
Pappi
Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:49 am
#2
i'm not quite sure what i just read, but i agree that stim Bs should have a higher med use. a lot of doctors and most other people will not agree though, since docs can make good money off uber stim Bs and a lot of people have novice medic just to heal themselves 
Brainplay
Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:32 am
#3
Doctors make incredible amounts of cash already even with the crappiest of buffs. Master medic level stimB's only allow us 5 experimentation points resulting in a sub-par stim and having to sell it for much much less (yes some of you get lucky and sell to noobies or deperates for same price).
You'd still have stimA's available to you and with the right stuff can be experimented to heal for a fair amount considering your skill level (and quickly too since the delay is almost nothing). It makes no sense why a NOVICE medic should be able to heal for that much. Yes you get the skill to heal yourselves. So where does that leave the rest of us so called "dedicated healers? If you get buffed you regenerate your hp and action pretty darn quickly. No I'm not trying to force everyone to be shouting "any cleric or shaman lfg?" or in this case "any MM, MCM, or Doc lfg?"
Keorythe
Master Combat Medic- Apothocary
Whitewind
Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:51 am
#4
Brainplay wrote:
This post has nothing to do with poisons so any nerf cryers and trolls can click out now.
This is in response to multiple posts in the medic, doctor, and especially the Combat Medic forums. I will concentrate on the CM issues here though.
I am Keorythe. I'm a Master Combat Medic. I'm a healer. I'm a group gimick.
I have repeatedly heard people say how combat medics are strictly a SUPPORT profession even though we are gifted with offensive poisons in exchange for a higher number of required player points. I say NAY to that. My abilities as any sort of group support are not NEEDED in any way shape or form unless the group wants to concentrate all of its dps on a target. This is due to the fact that a simple doctor made small stimpack B has the ability to full heal an unbuffed player and mostly heal a buff player who's taking a great deal of damage. This is enhanced by bio-engineered injury/wound clothing that can be worn underneath armor (+17 shirts).StimB's as they are commonly known are available to anyone who spends 15 points to obtain novice medic. Every elite and hybrid profession allows you have have that many points left over to obtain novice medic. Only those that want to add to their offense or defense by working up another combat or artisan tree will be without this ability. This allow any NOVICE medic an incredible amount of healing potential. Too much in fact.
Example: I watched a master swordsman fully buffed take on a full health ATST. In the middle of the fight the swordsman was down to 1/3 health then suddenly was back up to 3/4+. He had used a 415power stimB on himself. After he finished bashing the ATST into scrap I reluctantly spoke with him and asked if he was a doc. No, he replied he only had novice medic. He walked off and meditated in a fountain afterwards.
He had plenty of mind during the fight to drop 3 or 4 more heals on himself while the armor and regenerating effects of the doctor buffs did the rest. Had he not been able to heal himself in such a large degree he would have lost.
So where do combat medics come in? Well we can heal from range! Wait they can heal themselves... We can heal an entire group! Wait, they can heal themselves fully.... But, but, but they wont have to use their mind as much to do it! So we sacrifice ours plus our doctor bought or gimpy made subcomponents in order to get paid the same amount as everyone else which of course will be spent on more subcomponents to do it over and over again.
More fun non used skills:
Drag incapacitated player: Available at diagnostic II. Unless mind incapped this is one of the few uses of ranged heal if their are no other players around to do it themselves (btw if you target a person you still fire at your original target until you execute an action on them. However specials wont go off) Either that or the developers decided it would be better for me to run into whatever incapped this person and drag them out to a safe place to be fully healed so they can run back and start fighting again instead of just getting a full heal from a stimB,C,D right where they dropped. Hmmm I'll have to think about it but I could have sworn everyone hada variation of thistype of ability at character creation. /drag
Healmind: This one actually has uses...if you're the self sacrificing type. As a zabrak I lose about 1/3 of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and take anywhere from 30-100 mind wounds each time I use it. As a human they lose 1/2 to 2/3's of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and the same wounds. The ability wont restrict you from doing it below your required amount but you'll become incapacitated if you do AND take some heavy wounds. You'll have the ability to use this once on another player that is if you haven't gone nuts spamming specials or spamming ranged stimB's or C's (is there really a need for D's and E's?). If a player hasn't already or is unable to pop a moun feel free to use.
I cant say what Sony had as its main focus for player characters. I dont know if they intended all combat characters to be able to be completely and utterly self sufficient while adventuring. I do know that report after report has come in ofkills being made thatshould have been unsoloable but were in fact soloed. I have heard of people being able to soloand duo their way through the new corvette missions. Ihave seencombat medics passed overfor doctors since doctors can revive a player and that is the only real ability that player characters want in pvp or tough areas.
Is it really too much to ask? I'd like to be invited to a corvette mission or pvp for something other than my poisons.......
I want decent feedback on this from others. Take your gay flames somewhere else.
As the first master doc on shadowfire and a former master doc/cm i have this to say
i find your example on the heavy sword killing the atst very poor for the following reasons:
1. your numbers do not add up at all your saying a doc person went from 1/3 (roughly 700-1000) to 3/4 plus(roughly 1600-2200) health. for one healing900-1200 dmg heal points do not come from a "novice medic". the only way i could see someone even coming close to healing that much with a 415 heal is with atleast 4000 in the medic line and dmg heal clothes and thats if they got a extremly good heal roll .
2. your story doesnt make any sense first you say he only used one stim during the battle by saying "In the middle of the fight the swordsman was down to 1/3 health then suddenly was back up to 3/4+. He had used a 415power stimB on himself" the keyword being A stim pack. Then you said He had plenty of mind during the fight to drop 3 or 4 more heals on himself while the armor and regenerating effects of the doctor buffs did the rest. Had he not been able to heal himself in such a large degree he would have lost.
another example i found weak was "We can heal an entire group! Wait, they can heal themselves fully"
That area heal is a must have in hard battles such as the corvette. places where you need to heal tons of people fast.
The drag has its uses it may not be geared toward cm's but it should still be respected because doctors ALSO need mastic medic to become docs. In the docs case drag is used to pull a dead guy to a safe are and rez them, so that they dont killed again as soon as they stand up.
your mind healing mind loss makes no sense at all considiering that humans can have the highest focus(1100) and willpower(1100) and very high mind(1100) shouldnt a human be taking less mind dmg compaired to the zabrak? zabrak having a focus and willpower base of 800 and a mind base of 1000 or 1100.
lastly you will have many *edit* doc if this passes. stim B are a docs basic income. docs dont make that much to begin with sure they get 10k everytime they buff you but its a pain to make those packs and second you have to be physically there to buff the person
Whitewind
Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:52 am
#5
Brainplay wrote:
This post has nothing to do with poisons so any nerf cryers and trolls can click out now.
This is in response to multiple posts in the medic, doctor, and especially the Combat Medic forums. I will concentrate on the CM issues here though.
I am Keorythe. I'm a Master Combat Medic. I'm a healer. I'm a group gimick.
I have repeatedly heard people say how combat medics are strictly a SUPPORT profession even though we are gifted with offensive poisons in exchange for a higher number of required player points. I say NAY to that. My abilities as any sort of group support are not NEEDED in any way shape or form unless the group wants to concentrate all of its dps on a target. This is due to the fact that a simple doctor made small stimpack B has the ability to full heal an unbuffed player and mostly heal a buff player who's taking a great deal of damage. This is enhanced by bio-engineered injury/wound clothing that can be worn underneath armor (+17 shirts).StimB's as they are commonly known are available to anyone who spends 15 points to obtain novice medic. Every elite and hybrid profession allows you have have that many points left over to obtain novice medic. Only those that want to add to their offense or defense by working up another combat or artisan tree will be without this ability. This allow any NOVICE medic an incredible amount of healing potential. Too much in fact.
Example: I watched a master swordsman fully buffed take on a full health ATST. In the middle of the fight the swordsman was down to 1/3 health then suddenly was back up to 3/4+. He had used a 415power stimB on himself. After he finished bashing the ATST into scrap I reluctantly spoke with him and asked if he was a doc. No, he replied he only had novice medic. He walked off and meditated in a fountain afterwards.
He had plenty of mind during the fight to drop 3 or 4 more heals on himself while the armor and regenerating effects of the doctor buffs did the rest. Had he not been able to heal himself in such a large degree he would have lost.
So where do combat medics come in? Well we can heal from range! Wait they can heal themselves... We can heal an entire group! Wait, they can heal themselves fully.... But, but, but they wont have to use their mind as much to do it! So we sacrifice ours plus our doctor bought or gimpy made subcomponents in order to get paid the same amount as everyone else which of course will be spent on more subcomponents to do it over and over again.
More fun non used skills:
Drag incapacitated player: Available at diagnostic II. Unless mind incapped this is one of the few uses of ranged heal if their are no other players around to do it themselves (btw if you target a person you still fire at your original target until you execute an action on them. However specials wont go off) Either that or the developers decided it would be better for me to run into whatever incapped this person and drag them out to a safe place to be fully healed so they can run back and start fighting again instead of just getting a full heal from a stimB,C,D right where they dropped. Hmmm I'll have to think about it but I could have sworn everyone hada variation of thistype of ability at character creation. /drag
Healmind: This one actually has uses...if you're the self sacrificing type. As a zabrak I lose about 1/3 of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and take anywhere from 30-100 mind wounds each time I use it. As a human they lose 1/2 to 2/3's of a full mind pool (unbuffed) and the same wounds. The ability wont restrict you from doing it below your required amount but you'll become incapacitated if you do AND take some heavy wounds. You'll have the ability to use this once on another player that is if you haven't gone nuts spamming specials or spamming ranged stimB's or C's (is there really a need for D's and E's?). If a player hasn't already or is unable to pop a moun feel free to use.
I cant say what Sony had as its main focus for player characters. I dont know if they intended all combat characters to be able to be completely and utterly self sufficient while adventuring. I do know that report after report has come in ofkills being made thatshould have been unsoloable but were in fact soloed. I have heard of people being able to soloand duo their way through the new corvette missions. Ihave seencombat medics passed overfor doctors since doctors can revive a player and that is the only real ability that player characters want in pvp or tough areas.
Is it really too much to ask? I'd like to be invited to a corvette mission or pvp for something other than my poisons.......
I want decent feedback on this from others. Take your gay flames somewhere else.
As the first master doc on shadowfire and a former master doc/cm i have this to say
i find your example on the heavy sword killing the atst very poor for the following reasons:
1. your numbers do not add up at all your saying a doc person went from 1/3 (roughly 700-1000) to 3/4 plus(roughly 1600-2200) health. for one healing900-1200 dmg heal points do not come from a "novice medic". the only way i could see someone even coming close to healing that much with a 415 heal is with atleast 4000 in the medic line and dmg heal clothes and thats if they got a extremly good heal roll .
2. your story doesnt make any sense first you say he only used one stim during the battle by saying "In the middle of the fight the swordsman was down to 1/3 health then suddenly was back up to 3/4+. He had used a 415power stimB on himself" the keyword being A stim pack. Then you said He had plenty of mind during the fight to drop 3 or 4 more heals on himself while the armor and regenerating effects of the doctor buffs did the rest. Had he not been able to heal himself in such a large degree he would have lost.
another example i found weak was "We can heal an entire group! Wait, they can heal themselves fully"
That area heal is a must have in hard battles such as the corvette. places where you need to heal tons of people fast.
The drag has its uses it may not be geared toward cm's but it should still be respected because doctors ALSO need mastic medic to become docs. In the docs case drag is used to pull a dead guy to a safe are and rez them, so that they dont killed again as soon as they stand up.
your mind healing mind loss makes no sense at all considiering that humans can have the highest focus(1100) and willpower(1100) and very high mind(1100) shouldnt a human be taking less mind dmg compaired to the zabrak? zabrak having a focus and willpower base of 800 and a mind base of 1000 or 1100.
lastly you will have many *edit* doc if this passes. stim B are a docs basic income. docs dont make that much to begin with sure they get 10k everytime they buff you but its a pain to make those packs and second you have to be physically there to buff the person
IlyaMasool
Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:47 am
#6
Brainplay wrote:More fun non used skills:Drag incapacitated player:...Healmind: ...
Well I am not sure if I am in the minority here but I find these skills to be extremly useful. I guess since you don't consider yourself to be a full time healer at all when you are in a group these might be useless but as for me, these skills keep the group fighting far FAR longer than anything.
When we are doing tuffy fight like corvette, then as CM I stand back and spam area heal. It is rule that anyone who go on a hard fight must get mind buffed by dancer, and use brandy and canape. As long as everyone in the group does that, with every member in group having mind of 2500+ and they watch their mind usage, most people don't get incapped because of mind, and my area heal keep them from getting incapped because of other two HAM.
But when someone DO go down due to mind, I use the drag incap to drag the group member to me then mind heal him to recover that way I don't have to move from my spot of healing.
With 2700 mind, I can do this many MANY times even in corvette (20+ times) without noticeably affecting my ability to heal and on easy hunt like geo and everywhere else, not even half dozen times if everyone remember to keep taking brandy and canape staggered.
masdalasa
Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:05 am
#7
Hmm....is this really a combat medic trying to nerf stim Bs?
LOL< jesus cant you think of a REAL problem to fuss about, and out of all people its a combat medic???
Doctors dont have it as easy as you think we do. And yes, we are MASTER DOCTORS and shouldbe able to make tip top quality stim Bs because we put alot of time into gathering resources and making this stuff. ALOT OF DOCTORS dont sit-n-buff like you see 3-4 doing in corenet. Some of us have better stuff to do with our time and we have to rely on vendors and stuff like that to make a decent living.
Personally...i make a pile of cash off of selling my stim Bs. they have power of 419 and the whole damn server loves them. If you compare stim B at novice medic to a advanced stim E at master doctor the stats and numbers add up and are correct.
Songe
Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:57 am
#8
Lots of docsmake money selling stim Bs, increasing their medicine use would hurt docs the most. Even with novice medic and a 480 power stim b you will still not heal for much more than 600 if you're lucky, which is basically useless when people have 2500+ hams. So I disagree.
JudasTyberius
Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:30 pm
#9
What i'm saying is exactly what I said above. While I was a BH, I had nothing aside from novice medic. I was regularly able to heal myself for about 1k of damage using stim B.
Tell you what, I'll drop CM and Medic and go back to BH for you, and in about a week i'll report back to this thread for you. If i'm wrong, i'll say so.
Roadego
Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:29 pm
#10
You sir, are full of it. I have 410 stim-bs with novice medic and my highest heal out of a crate of 25 was around 600 (which is rare) or do you just happen to have magic stims the rest of us don't have access too? I like a good debate but when people start using fallacy arguements and exaggerating then they lose all credibility.
JudasTyberius
Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:23 pm
#11
Hey, roadego, I just said, 1 post above you, that i'll drop cm to go bh, not that bh has anything to do with it. I also stated that I would report back here. If i'm mistaken (or just plain wrong) I'll come back here and tell you. I'm probably wrong, seeing as you feel so strongly about it.
However, stating that I'm exaggerating and using 'fallacy arguements' is a little more than is necessary. I've been wrong before, and i'll probably be wrong again. Justthe same, you will probably continue to be a jerk.
JudasTyberius
Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:27 am
#12
Thats not true. With novice medic only, as a BH, I was regularly able to heal myself for about 1k of damage using a 407power StimB. No BE clothes, no BE foods. Just me, my armor, my scatter, and my Stim Bs.
I agree that Stim B should be moved up the tree.
A basic 0000 Novice Medic should be able to use Stim A, not Stim B.
Doctors already have numerous options to make cash. I'm not talking down about their need for cash, but taking Stim B out of their income would be a temporary set back. Try making cash as a CM, and you'll see what poor is all about.
Besides, all this would really do is make those novice medics pick up 1 or two more boxes to use the Stim Bs, which would STILL sell like hotcakes.
Whitewind
Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:46 am
#13
^
so your saying that the random mod for healing could go as high as 2.5 consdiering 400*2.5=1000 with only NOVICE medic. that is abuserd. a master docs stim E is about 900 heal or higher plus that doc has heal mods from the medic line that more then double the docs healing mod compaired to a NOVICE medic with bio clothes. have you ever seen a doc heal for 900*5.0= 4500 or even come close to it?
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